2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

nikster · Post #41 » by **nikster** » Sun Dec 5, 2021 10:43 pm

nitric0 wrote:
Alatan wrote:
nitric0 wrote:Denver is 7th in the west with a .500 record. Team record is significant.
1. Curry
2. Derozan
3. Durant
4. Giannis

Why Derozan and not Lavine? Even if we disregard the talent surrounding the candidates to allow either to be mentionedhere, there is no reason to nominate one over the other.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Lavine top 10 though.

Not hating on derozan, but the last point in that tweet is just a textbook example of digging for random stats. Why 200 minutes cut off? Only 13 players have played 200+ in the 4th. Tatum, Westbrook and Paul are the only other all stars in that group. There are 5 players who have a higher total 4th quarter plus/minus then derozan in less minutes.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #42 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Sun Dec 5, 2021 11:41 pm

Think it comes down to the end of season. Record probably will be the tiebreaker if everyone is healthy

Would be huge for either curry or Giannis legacies to win their third. Only 8 other players have done that. Curry is knocking on the top 10 door and Giannis is a couple pieces of metal away (championship / mvp / dpoy) from top 15.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #43 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 12:30 am

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Think it comes down to the end of season. Record probably will be the tiebreaker if everyone is healthy

Would be huge for either curry or Giannis legacies to win their third. Only 8 other players have done that. Curry is knocking on the top 10 door and Giannis is a couple pieces of metal away (championship / mvp / dpoy) from top 15.

Its more about longevity than hardware for both of them I would say. Oscar, West, Kobe, KG, Dirk and Dr. J are the guys most often slotted into those 11-16 spots and none of them won more than one mvp and only Kobe got more than one nba title(Dr. J got one plus two aba). The one thing all of them had though was very good to great longevity prime wise. I would say Steph is on the verge of joining that group just by staying healthy and Giannis needs 4-5 more prime level seasons plus to continue to go reasonably far in the playoffs. Him only having 2 deep playoff runs so far is a big thing he needs to improve on.

Wolfgang630 · Post #44 » by **Wolfgang630** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 1:48 am

What happened to people believing in Durant? Lol

AleksandarN · Post #45 » by **AleksandarN** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 4:01 am

The NBA TV panel pretty much sums him up

Watch on YouTube

GeorgeSears · Post #46 » by **GeorgeSears** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 5:26 am

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Think it comes down to the end of season. Record probably will be the tiebreaker if everyone is healthy

Would be huge for either curry or Giannis legacies to win their third. Only 8 other players have done that. Curry is knocking on the top 10 door and Giannis is a couple pieces of metal away (championship / mvp / dpoy) from top 15.

IMO Curry's MVP success is wholly dependent on his team's record. Statistically, he will not be able to matchup with Giannis and Jokic. Those two are in a league of their own right now.

My prediction is the Nuggets record is going to improve, and the Bucks will maintain top 3 in the East. So It'll come down to those two.

BoatsNZones · Post #47 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 6:15 am

GeorgeSears wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Think it comes down to the end of season. Record probably will be the tiebreaker if everyone is healthy

Would be huge for either curry or Giannis legacies to win their third. Only 8 other players have done that. Curry is knocking on the top 10 door and Giannis is a couple pieces of metal away (championship / mvp / dpoy) from top 15.

IMO Curry's MVP success is wholly dependent on his team's record. Statistically, he will not be able to matchup with Giannis and Jokic. Those two are in a league of their own right now.

My prediction is the Nuggets record is going to improve, and the Bucks will maintain top 3 in the East. So It'll come down to those two.

My understanding of this post is that you have very little knowledge of how the MVP is voted on and also very little understanding of stats (possibly basketball considering the "wholly dependent" comment) in general.

Jokic offers nearly 10X the betting value of Curry right now (the massive favorite to win MVP as is). Giannis > 7X.

If you think you're locked in Chuck Yaeger, now is the time to strike.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #48 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 3:18 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:
Jokic offers nearly 10X the betting value of Curry right now (the massive favorite to win MVP as is). Giannis > 7X.

If you think you're locked in Chuck Yaeger, now is the time to strike.

I agree Curry is the favorite, but i got to think some of the odds are skewed from everyone in Cali going to Vegas and throwing $100 on curry. Who, outside of Denver fans, bet for fun on Jokic? Maybe I'm wrong and there are enough serious bettors out there but Curry just has the cache with everyday fans.

CobraCommander · Post #49 » by **CobraCommander** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 4:16 pm

Barring injury it will either be KD, Giannis, Jokic or Curry-

Right now it’s Curry because...Curry Is doing Curry things

but I can’t understand how if Jokic ends the year in the playoffs and with him playing enough games AND with these outlandish numbers Jokic doesn’t win the MVP. This is Westbrook’s MVP part 2...it would be a travesty if Jokic doesn’t win.

If CP3 or Booker keeps winning and they should get that Stockton and Malone MVP-

Trae and Derozen are worthy of consideration but so far it’s not enough.

DutchManDanFan · Post #50 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 5:22 pm

NRSV wrote:It’s Jokic at the moment and it’s not close.

Why? What's so special about his stats that makes him look so much better than Curry, KD and Giannis?

Code: Select all

         ppg rpg apg spg bpg  PER
KD        1   39  26   -  50   5
Giannis   2    6  20  55  10   2
Steph     3   67  13   9  98   6
Jokic     6    2  15  52  46   1

You may have a point if you look at other (advanced) stats, but for the voting I think the stats above, team record and the quality of their defense is much more important.
If Steph leads his team to the best record and he's no 1 in ppg, he will become MVP again.. Otherwise It’s Giannis, with the other 3 not far behind.

Jadoogar · Post #51 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 5:39 pm

I think we have a clear top 4:
Curry
Giannis
KD
Jokic - would be higher, his impact has been insane but the team just have too many injuries

The second tier would be:
Jimmy Butler
CP/Booker (might split votes)
Demar/Lavine (might split votes)
Rudy Gobert

My dark horse, Paul George. If Clippers finish in the top 3, he would have a strong case.

Bilderberg706 · Post #52 » by **Bilderberg706** » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:06 pm

For me, there are 4 players in the running: Steph, Jokic, Giannis, and KD.

.A poster on Reddit made a post containing a comparison of all of their numbers so far this season, https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/r7h11h/jokic_and_giannis_have_been_better_than_steph_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Jokic and Giannis have clearly been the two best players according to raw numbers and advanced/impact metrics.

If the vote was today, I believe Steph would be picked by the media based off of record. I believed it's flawed to based individual awards off of team record. It should play a part. If a player is on a team that's not winning, they could be racking up empty stats. But, with Jokic and Giannis that isn't the case. Their impact numbers far exceed those of Steph and KD. They're getting the absolute most out of the rosters they've been given so far.

Between these two I give the edge to Giannis because, although Jokic has been good on defense so far this season, Giannis is my current pick for DPOY.

Big J · Post #53 » by **Big J** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 3:59 am

Bilderberg706 wrote:For me, there are 4 players in the running: Steph, Jokic, Giannis, and KD.

.A poster on Reddit made a post containing a comparison of all of their numbers so far this season, https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/r7h11h/jokic_and_giannis_have_been_better_than_steph_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Jokic and Giannis have clearly been the two best players according to raw numbers and advanced/impact metrics.

If the vote was today, I believe Steph would be picked by the media based off of record. I believed it's flawed to based individual awards off of team record. It should play a part. If a player is on a team that's not winning, they could be racking up empty stats. But, with Jokic and Giannis that isn't the case. Their impact numbers far exceed those of Steph and KD. They're getting the absolute most out of the rosters they've been given so far.

Between these two I give the edge to Giannis because, although Jokic has been good on defense so far this season, Giannis is my current pick for DPOY.

Curry’s gravity doesn’t show up in the numbers. He gets teammates wide open layups without even touching the ball.

Bilderberg706 · Post #54 » by **Bilderberg706** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 4:18 am

Big J wrote:
Bilderberg706 wrote:For me, there are 4 players in the running: Steph, Jokic, Giannis, and KD.

.A poster on Reddit made a post containing a comparison of all of their numbers so far this season, https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/r7h11h/jokic_and_giannis_have_been_better_than_steph_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Jokic and Giannis have clearly been the two best players according to raw numbers and advanced/impact metrics.

If the vote was today, I believe Steph would be picked by the media based off of record. I believed it's flawed to based individual awards off of team record. It should play a part. If a player is on a team that's not winning, they could be racking up empty stats. But, with Jokic and Giannis that isn't the case. Their impact numbers far exceed those of Steph and KD. They're getting the absolute most out of the rosters they've been given so far.

Between these two I give the edge to Giannis because, although Jokic has been good on defense so far this season, Giannis is my current pick for DPOY.

Curry’s gravity doesn’t show up in the numbers. He gets teammates wide open layups without even touching the ball.

You're right, that wouldn't show up in the counting stats. But it would show up in the advanced stats, and Giannis and Jokic have had bigger impacts on winning thus far in the season.

TheHartBreakKid · Post #55 » by **TheHartBreakKid** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 4:39 am

let's keep it real. If the season ends today it would be Curry, and I'm willing to bet it would be close to unanimous.

but the season doesn't end today and we have a long way to go. Jokic, Giannis, and KD could easily be on top of this list 2-3 weeks if their teams put together a nice streak and the Warriors lose a couple. Of course assuming they remain healthy and keep producing at the same incredible level.

The Lazy Potato · Post #56 » by **The Lazy Potato** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 8:19 am

The fans who voting for Jokic just doesn't make any sense. His team is barely in the playoffs, 8th seed right now. Team success realy matters on this, you can't just ignored it. And for sure the real voters will take it into consideration. So there is no chance he will be the MVP this season anyway.

GSP · Post #57 » by **GSP** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 8:41 am

The Lazy Potato wrote:The fans who voting for Jokic just doesn't make any sense. His team is barely in the playoffs, 8th seed right now. Team success realy matters on this, you can't just ignored it. And for sure the real voters will take it into consideration. So there is no chance he will be the MVP this season anyway.

Warriors were 8th seed last year and missed the playoffs after getting eliminated in playins yet Steph was 3rd in Mvp voting and got the 2nd most 1st place votes

God Squad · Post #58 » by **God Squad** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 9:08 am

December 7th 2021 - I'm going with Steph Curry as of now, with Giannis right behind him.

CP3 needs more love though.

KGtabake · Post #59 » by **KGtabake** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 12:49 pm

People advocating that KD isn't a top3 candidate, need to leave their personal agendas out.
You can't be watching basketball and say such nonsense.
Steph, Giannis and KD are in front because their teams are up there in the standings.
Team rankings are 50% of the vote.
A Westbrook winning type of season won't happen again.
If Niko gets some help from Barton and Gordon and the Nuggets become at least a top4 team in the West, he will make it a 4 horse race again since his stats are again insane.

DeRozan has really caught up Butler for rounding up the top5.

jokeboy86 · Post #60 » by **jokeboy86** » Tue Dec 7, 2021 1:29 pm

I think it'll come down to Giannis and Curry. For some reason I don't see the Nets holding on to the top seed and plus I think Nash and Nets management want to make sure that KD/Harden are completely healthy for the playoff run especially if Irving isn't coming back by all accounts. Only reason Jokic can't win it is because his team record probably won't be good enough(needs to be at least 3 seed). Lavine won't win it but he's going to get a lot of love because the Bulls basement to me in the East is no lower than 4 and who knows how high they could finish.

Curry and GSW have to watch out for the Suns/Jazz for the top record so it won't be easy and I expect Curry to miss about 10-15 games this season eventually. Giannis and the Bucks will only get better as they start to heal and get players back and gel. And the Bucks as it currently stands right now have the best big 3 in the league and the wins will only increase as they start to play more.

Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)