2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[MrSparkle]

Here is my attempt at quantifying "gravity". I'll call it True Shooting Influence. Heavily inspired by this 538 article written back in 2017. Credit to NBA Wowy/Add More Funds for the data.

This looks at teammate TS% when the team's MVP candidate is on and off the court. The TS% differential is calculated for each teammate and then weighted based on how many true shooting attempts they've taken. I'm still fine-tuning the weightings but the results come out nearly the same regardless of method. The goal is one simple number that expresses a player's influence on his teammates' scoring efficiency.

I've only calculated it for a handful of stars but here are the results for this season so far:

1. Stephen Curry +5.40
2. LeBron James +4.24
3. Kevin Durant +3.42
4. Nikola Jokic +3.30
5. Joel Embiid +3.25
6. Giannis Ant. +3.23
7. Chris Paul +2.78

Very nice. This stat is what the NBA needs.

[slick_watts]

in a fair and just world, if the season ended today, nikola jokic would win mvp in a landslide. he is having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time.

[Big J]

in a fair and just world, if the season ended today, nikola jokic would win mvp in a landslide. he is having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time.

Maybe if the MVP was only based on stats and not on impact.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Zero data to back this up, but Grayson Allen made a comment he had to adjust to being too wide-open. You can sometimes see it where there is hestitation or confused look and doesn't just do a reflexive catch and shoot. Obviously, he will get used to it and be better off overall. im sure there is a stat out there somewhere that shows a diminishing return or negative point for being too wide-open. Not implying anything but just a random thought talking about gravity.

[slick_watts]

in a fair and just world, if the season ended today, nikola jokic would win mvp in a landslide. he is having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time.

Maybe if the MVP was only based on stats and not on impact.

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

[eyeatoma]

How is KD eligible now that Harden himself is playing at a MVP level? Never mind that Durants advance stats never paint him as the mvp anyways. Never mind that they also have Kyrie back now for road games.

I just fail to understand Durants MVP case with the struggling Nets relative roster strength and expectations. Seems odd

I agree with this take.

In my Opinion the players with the highest chances of winning are Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, and LeBron. Steph needs to turn it on fast if he wants to get back into contention.

KD has too much help, so does DeMar.

Yeah, KD has had so much help that he's second in the league in minutes per game and has played entire halfs multiple times, simply because the Nets can't effort to sit him down. Harden finally has couple good games after this boards has proclaimed him washed up so far, Kyrie has played 3 road games and all of as sudden KD has too much help lol.

I never thought KD had much of a case with the Nets always having Harden on there. Sorry if you have a former MVP candidate, even if he was playing below par, you really have to be having an incredible season. KD is doing amazing, but it's not like the best season he's had. Also, he's playing a ton of minutes, which can also be attributed to some of the extra production. I still think he's got a chance, just not the same chance as the other players.

[Big J]

in a fair and just world, if the season ended today, nikola jokic would win mvp in a landslide. he is having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time.

Maybe if the MVP was only based on stats and not on impact.

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

It should be showing up in the standings more then.

[slick_watts]

Maybe if the MVP was only based on stats and not on impact.

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

It should be showing up in the standings more then.

it is. the nuggets are a horrific team when jokic is not in the game. they'd be in last place without him. they are way worse than the nets w/o kevin durant, warriors w/o stephen curry or the lakers w/o lebron james. it's not even close. the nuggets being above .500 is a testament to how jokic has been carrying those scrubs. they are a great team when he is on the court, and one of the worst in the league when he is on the bench. isn't that what impact is all about?

[Kurtz]

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

It should be showing up in the standings more then.

it is. the nuggets are a horrific team when jokic is not in the game. they'd be in last place without him. they are way worse than the nets w/o kevin durant, warriors w/o stephen curry or the lakers w/o lebron james. it's not even close. the nuggets being above .500 is a testament to how jokic has been carrying those scrubs. they are a great team when he is on the court, and one of the worst in the league when he is on the bench. isn't that what impact is all about?

Plus Denver did finish 3rd in the standings last year, so the "more often" comment makes no sense either.

Hell, even this year it's almost a miracle that they're sitting 6th with that roster around Joker.

[Hussien Fatal]

in a fair and just world, if the season ended today, nikola jokic would win mvp in a landslide. he is having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time.

Maybe if the MVP was only based on stats and not on impact.

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

Lol no he’s not. His winning percentage is 55%, that isn’t a trait of the most impactful player in the league, I know his advanced stats are outta this world but he needs to be able to win more if he truly is the most impactful player in the league. Joel is more impactful when it comes to winning games no doubt about it, his winning percentage is almost 15% higher than Jokic’s winning percentage. And I’m sorry but his team is .500 which means his impact isn’t Elite as far as the win column is concerned.

[Hussien Fatal]

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

It should be showing up in the standings more then.

it is. the nuggets are a horrific team when jokic is not in the game. they'd be in last place without him. they are way worse than the nets w/o kevin durant, warriors w/o stephen curry or the lakers w/o lebron james. it's not even close. the nuggets being above .500 is a testament to how jokic has been carrying those scrubs. they are a great team when he is on the court, and one of the worst in the league when he is on the bench. isn't that what impact is all about?

Lol at thinking a player on a .500 team is the most impactful player in the league, get real! KD is more impactful as is Steph and Joel when it comes to winning. Those 3 players have a much better win percentage than Jokic. Sure he puts up numbers but he honestly doesn’t even make his teammates better either, he hasn’t even been able to elevate Jamal Murray to an all star. He just lacks making team mates better.

[slick_watts]

Maybe if the MVP was only based on stats and not on impact.

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

Lol no he’s not. His winning percentage is 55%, that isn’t a trait of the most impactful player in the league, I know his advanced stats are outta this world but he needs to be able to win more if he truly is the most impactful player in the league. Joel is more impactful when it comes to winning games no doubt about it, his winning percentage is almost 15% higher than Jokic’s winning percentage. And I’m sorry but his team is .500 which means his impact isn’t Elite as far as the win column is concerned.

this is caveman thinking. maybe back in the day when stars played 40 minutes a game or more, overall team performance being a strong factor for mvp voting made sense. these days there are only a few players who even play more than 75% of their team's minutes. holding players accountable for poor performance of the team when they are not playing, or crediting a player for great performance of the team when they are not playing is a logically stupid consideration for an individual award. we have all the tools at our disposal to make these distinctions, and people who do not are exposing willful ignorance.

[Hussien Fatal]

jokic is, by far, the most impactful player in the league.

Lol no he’s not. His winning percentage is 55%, that isn’t a trait of the most impactful player in the league, I know his advanced stats are outta this world but he needs to be able to win more if he truly is the most impactful player in the league. Joel is more impactful when it comes to winning games no doubt about it, his winning percentage is almost 15% higher than Jokic’s winning percentage. And I’m sorry but his team is .500 which means his impact isn’t Elite as far as the win column is concerned.

this is caveman thinking. maybe back in the day when stars played 40 minutes a game or more, overall team performance being a strong factor for mvp voting made sense. these days there are only a few players who even play more than 75% of their team's minutes. holding players accountable for poor performance of the team when they are not playing, or crediting a player for great performance of the team when they are not playing is a logically stupid consideration for an individual award. we have all the tools at our disposal to make these distinctions, and people who do not are exposing willful ignorance.

Lol what does that have to do with him having a poor win percentage compared to other superstars? He doesn’t even make is team mates better either porter looked terrible playing with Jokic before his injury, even Gordon had better years in Orlando. Also Barton has Plateaued playing next to Jokic. Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic on offense all together.

[slick_watts]

Lol no he’s not. His winning percentage is 55%, that isn’t a trait of the most impactful player in the league, I know his advanced stats are outta this world but he needs to be able to win more if he truly is the most impactful player in the league. Joel is more impactful when it comes to winning games no doubt about it, his winning percentage is almost 15% higher than Jokic’s winning percentage. And I’m sorry but his team is .500 which means his impact isn’t Elite as far as the win column is concerned.

this is caveman thinking. maybe back in the day when stars played 40 minutes a game or more, overall team performance being a strong factor for mvp voting made sense. these days there are only a few players who even play more than 75% of their team's minutes. holding players accountable for poor performance of the team when they are not playing, or crediting a player for great performance of the team when they are not playing is a logically stupid consideration for an individual award. we have all the tools at our disposal to make these distinctions, and people who do not are exposing willful ignorance.

Lol what does that have to do with him having a poor win percentage compared to other superstars? He doesn’t even make is team mates better either porter looked terrible playing with Jokic before his injury, even Gordon had better years in Orlando. Also Barton has Plateaued playing next to Jokic. Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic on offense all together.

the nuggets are great when jokic plays, they are the worst team in the league when he is on the bench. jokic can't control what happens when he's not in the game. if the nuggets were as good a team without jokic as the sixers are without embiid, they'd be a better team than the sixers by a comfortable margin.

[eyeatoma]

this is caveman thinking. maybe back in the day when stars played 40 minutes a game or more, overall team performance being a strong factor for mvp voting made sense. these days there are only a few players who even play more than 75% of their team's minutes. holding players accountable for poor performance of the team when they are not playing, or crediting a player for great performance of the team when they are not playing is a logically stupid consideration for an individual award. we have all the tools at our disposal to make these distinctions, and people who do not are exposing willful ignorance.

Lol what does that have to do with him having a poor win percentage compared to other superstars? He doesn’t even make is team mates better either porter looked terrible playing with Jokic before his injury, even Gordon had better years in Orlando. Also Barton has Plateaued playing next to Jokic. Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic on offense all together.

the nuggets are great when jokic plays, they are the worst team in the league when he is on the bench. jokic can't control what happens when he's not in the game. if the nuggets were as good a team without jokic as the sixers are without embiid, they'd be a better team than the sixers by a comfortable margin.

Sixers have a fake star in Tobias. This team is horrific without Embiid. It's a lot closer than you think with how bad there are compared to the Nuggets.

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[slick_watts]

Lol what does that have to do with him having a poor win percentage compared to other superstars? He doesn’t even make is team mates better either porter looked terrible playing with Jokic before his injury, even Gordon had better years in Orlando. Also Barton has Plateaued playing next to Jokic. Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic on offense all together.

the nuggets are great when jokic plays, they are the worst team in the league when he is on the bench. jokic can't control what happens when he's not in the game. if the nuggets were as good a team without jokic as the sixers are without embiid, they'd be a better team than the sixers by a comfortable margin.

Sixers have a fake star in Tobias. This team is horrific without Embiid. It's a lot closer than you think with how bad there are compared to the Nuggets.

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we don't have to care about what you or i think.

the nuggets are -13.0pp100 without jokic in the game this season. the sixers are -2.0pp100 without embiid in the game this season.

the nuggets perform far worse without jokic than the sixers do without embiid.

this is objective fact.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I agree with this take.

In my Opinion the players with the highest chances of winning are Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, and LeBron. Steph needs to turn it on fast if he wants to get back into contention.

KD has too much help, so does DeMar.

Yeah, KD has had so much help that he's second in the league in minutes per game and has played entire halfs multiple times, simply because the Nets can't effort to sit him down. Harden finally has couple good games after this boards has proclaimed him washed up so far, Kyrie has played 3 road games and all of as sudden KD has too much help lol.

I never thought KD had much of a case with the Nets always having Harden on there. Sorry if you have a former MVP candidate, even if he was playing below par, you really have to be having an incredible season. KD is doing amazing, but it's not like the best season he's had. Also, he's playing a ton of minutes, which can also be attribute to some of the extra production. I still think he's got a chance, just not the same chance as the other players.

Harden has been awful for much of the season.

Being a former MVP means nothing if youre not playing well right now.

Thats like saying LeBron cant win MVP cause he plays with Westbrook.

[NyKnicks1714]

Giannis wins, lock up the thread.

[eyeatoma]

Yeah, KD has had so much help that he's second in the league in minutes per game and has played entire halfs multiple times, simply because the Nets can't effort to sit him down. Harden finally has couple good games after this boards has proclaimed him washed up so far, Kyrie has played 3 road games and all of as sudden KD has too much help lol.

I never thought KD had much of a case with the Nets always having Harden on there. Sorry if you have a former MVP candidate, even if he was playing below par, you really have to be having an incredible season. KD is doing amazing, but it's not like the best season he's had. Also, he's playing a ton of minutes, which can also be attribute to some of the extra production. I still think he's got a chance, just not the same chance as the other players.

Harden has been awful for much of the season.

Being a former MVP means nothing if youre not playing well right now.

Thats like saying LeBron cant win MVP cause he plays with Westbrook.

Harden has been great since he returned from COVID.

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[eyeatoma]

the nuggets are great when jokic plays, they are the worst team in the league when he is on the bench. jokic can't control what happens when he's not in the game. if the nuggets were as good a team without jokic as the sixers are without embiid, they'd be a better team than the sixers by a comfortable margin.

Sixers have a fake star in Tobias. This team is horrific without Embiid. It's a lot closer than you think with how bad there are compared to the Nuggets.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

we don't have to care about what you or i think.

the nuggets are -13.0pp100 without jokic in the game this season. the sixers are -2.0pp100 without embiid in the game this season.

the nuggets perform far worse without jokic than the sixers do without embiid.

this is objective fact.

Are you really an MVP if the best you can do is raise your team to .500?

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