2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

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Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)

Stephen Curry
12
6%
Nikola Jokic
77
36%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
68
32%
Kevin Durant
5
2%
Joel Embiid
22
10%
Chris Paul
7
3%
Ja Morant
5
2%
Rudy Gobert
2
1%
DeMar Derozan
4
2%
LeBron James
10
5%
 
Total votes: 212

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1061 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:37 am

The Lazy Potato wrote:I think fans here wasting too much time talking about Jokic winning another MVP this season. It's not gonna happen guys, get over it. Team success matters and winning back to back MVP is not something that happening often. Don't waste your time with mentioning Jokic this year, voters will not vote for him. Just move to the next guy pls. It's really a race of 3 guys, Giannis, Curry or KD ( Also on this order right now)


If (and it's a big IF) the sixers can crack top 2 or 3, Embiid has a chance.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1062 » by WhatTheBuck » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:40 am

Freighttrain wrote:
WhatTheBuck wrote:Giannis 30 / 12 / 11 and 3 Blocks
Curry 12 / 8 / 4 / 2 Steals and lots of gravity, presence and something you just can't put your finger on.

I predict Curry will add to his MVP votes in this thread after this match.


You could also make ur case without having to be toxic about Curry. He's been in a slump for about a month now, but their team is still 2nd in the west whilst the Bucks have 17 Losses and are currently 4th. Still not that great team wise I'd say. Curious about the next time the Bucks face the Nets with KD & Giannis both playing & the Sixers with Embiid. That'll tell me something more than this game which was a blowout in the first half.


Curry fans have been in here talking complex physics and mystical experiences to try and justify why Steph is MVP, despite him being horrible for nigh on a month now. I'm just poking a little fun at them.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1063 » by JN61 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am

Giannis showing who the real deserving MVP is. Doesn't crap his bed every 2nd night with 3/13 3 point shooting nights, while teammates carry him to the victory.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1064 » by JN61 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:42 am

WhatTheBuck wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:
WhatTheBuck wrote:Giannis 30 / 12 / 11 and 3 Blocks
Curry 12 / 8 / 4 / 2 Steals and lots of gravity, presence and something you just can't put your finger on.

I predict Curry will add to his MVP votes in this thread after this match.


You could also make ur case without having to be toxic about Curry. He's been in a slump for about a month now, but their team is still 2nd in the west whilst the Bucks have 17 Losses and are currently 4th. Still not that great team wise I'd say. Curious about the next time the Bucks face the Nets with KD & Giannis both playing & the Sixers with Embiid. That'll tell me something more than this game which was a blowout in the first half.


Curry fans have been in here talking complex physics and mystical experiences to try and justify why Steph is MVP, despite him being horrible for nigh on a month now. I'm just poking a little fun at them.

The elusive goal post moving gravity.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1065 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:53 am

slick_watts wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
yes, he's raising his team to .500 from worst in the league. they are +8.0pp100 or something when he's in the game. that's a 21pp100 swing, which is absurd.

think about it. why do you even care about team record when it comes to mvp? the reason is that the most valuable players make their teams better. jokic makes his team better, objectively, more than anyone else this season, by far. only giannis is even in the same universe as him.

jokic has no control over what happens when he is not in the game, when the nuggets play like the worst team in the nba. it's silly to ignore this and just point to the team's record.


Let's also look historically, most MVPs are on are on a very good team. Westbrook and Jokic being the rare exception. I think for Jokic to win it two years in a row he'll need to make his team better not worse than last year. Yes they're missing MPJ and Murray, but I just don't see voters doing it twice in a row.


mvp voters are mostly stupid and adhere to this caveman ideology also. these are television talking head arguments. it's easy to predict what those guys will do, because they don't care at all about nuance.

we have objective evidence here that jokic makes his team better to an extent greater than any of the other candidates. who cares how the nuggets fared last year? what does that have to do with anything that is happening this season?


LOL guess it should just be you who decides on the MVP then eh? Sorry bud, sound more like you have an issue with how MVP's are decided on. Unfortunately, this has been the trend and continues to be it in the NBA. I do agree that most of the media is stupid, it's why narrative seems to always be the sole reason for deciding the MVP. Combine narrative, with best player on the a top 1-3 team in the league and voila, you have your MVP. Dumb equation but it is what it is. You have a few outliers in Westbrook and Jokic, but that's what they are, outliers.

As I said before, I think the award you are wanting to talk about is, best player in the league, not most valuable.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1066 » by Johnny Firpo » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:58 am

Gotta be Giannis at this point.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1067 » by Dutchball97 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:59 am

Giannis seems to be running away with it now and it wouldn't be undeserved as across WS, VORP, LEBRON, RAPTOR and EPM the only one who seems to come out on top over him statistically at the moment is Jokic. You've got Curry and Gobert who lead or are close to leading in some categories but then are barely top 10 in others, while both Jokic and Giannis are consistently top 5 across every stat.

I do get Giannis having the benefit of a better team over Jokic but with the Bucks falling to the 4th seed now I wonder how long it'll be before the seeding over anything else folks start dropping Giannis from the convo for that as well. Is the 4 seed the minimum for you guys or is it already pushing it?
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1068 » by DutchManDanFan » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:52 am

Nice timing for the new poll, Prez. :D

Dutchball97 wrote:I do get Giannis having the benefit of a better team over Jokic but with the Bucks falling to the 4th seed now I wonder how long it'll be before the seeding over anything else folks start dropping Giannis from the convo for that as well. Is the 4 seed the minimum for you guys or is it already pushing it?

For me 3rd seed is minimum. The Bucks should get the 3rd seed (or better) easily. Question is if they try hard enough every game. They tried against Breukelen and GSW. That were easy wins...
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1069 » by The Lazy Potato » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:58 am

Man, Giannis' improvement in playmaking and assisting are things that I feel are not talked about enough. Of course, it helps that his teammates were hitting their shots tonight, but I feel this is an aspect of his game that is overseen. I view both Jokic and Giannis in the same breath when it comes to playmaking.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1070 » by The Lazy Potato » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:03 am

eyeatoma wrote:
The Lazy Potato wrote:I think fans here wasting too much time talking about Jokic winning another MVP this season. It's not gonna happen guys, get over it. Team success matters and winning back to back MVP is not something that happening often. Don't waste your time with mentioning Jokic this year, voters will not vote for him. Just move to the next guy pls. It's really a race of 3 guys, Giannis, Curry or KD ( Also on this order right now)
If and it's a big If the sixers can crack top 2 or 3 Embiid has a chance.

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Totally agree with that and Embiid is on the same level with these guys for sure. I just can't see the 76ers to be top-3 in the East this season man. Probably the best they can get is 5th seed.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1071 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:05 am

The Lazy Potato wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
The Lazy Potato wrote:I think fans here wasting too much time talking about Jokic winning another MVP this season. It's not gonna happen guys, get over it. Team success matters and winning back to back MVP is not something that happening often. Don't waste your time with mentioning Jokic this year, voters will not vote for him. Just move to the next guy pls. It's really a race of 3 guys, Giannis, Curry or KD ( Also on this order right now)
If and it's a big If the sixers can crack top 2 or 3 Embiid has a chance.

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Totally agree with that and Embiid is on the same level with these guys for sure. I just can't see the 76ers to be top-3 in the East this season man. Probably the best they can get is 5th seed.
Yeah that's more likely.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1072 » by DutchManDanFan » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:07 am

Cubbies2120 wrote:Would ladder position be relative to their conference or the NBA? In a hypothetical:

West is separated by 1 win from 1-8 seed.

Jokic finishes 8th (1 win behind 1st seed). Giannis finishes 2nd in East (3 wins less than Nuggets, but 10 games out of first in the East). Jokic's team is the 9th best team, while Giannis is on the 10th best team, but due to conference, one has a higher "ladder"?

As you said: hypothetical. It's not the case and it never is.
Top 3 seed or close record wise. 3rd seed with below 50 wins is not good enough for me either.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1073 » by DutchManDanFan » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:26 am

eyeatoma wrote:Let's also look historically, most MVPs are on a very good team. Westbrook and Jokic being the rare exception. I think for Jokic to win it two years in a row he'll need to make his team better not worse than last year. Yes they're missing MPJ and Murray, but I just don't see voters doing it twice in a row.

Nash and Curry did it back to back and those were very good teams.

Denver had the 3rd seed in the West last year with a good record (47-25 = .653). Jokic deserved it last year. I think he needs 50+ wins (in 82 game season) to have a chance. So he needs 29-13 (= .69) or better from now on. Very unlikely.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1074 » by schnakenpopanz » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:37 am

Funny thing: Suns have best record half-way through the season and none of them is considered as top 5 in mvp voting.
and I think that this is good.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1075 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:41 am

DutchManDanFan wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Let's also look historically, most MVPs are on a very good team. Westbrook and Jokic being the rare exception. I think for Jokic to win it two years in a row he'll need to make his team better not worse than last year. Yes they're missing MPJ and Murray, but I just don't see voters doing it twice in a row.

Nash and Curry did it back to back and those were very good teams.

Denver had the 3rd seed in the West last year with a good record (47-25 = .653). Jokic deserved it last year. I think he needs 50+ wins (in 82 game season) to have a chance. So he needs 29-13 (= .69) or better from now on. Very unlikely.
I agree he deserved it with Embiid missing too many games.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1076 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:44 am

schnakenpopanz wrote:Funny thing: Suns have best record half-way through the season and none of them is considered as top 5 in mvp voting.
and I think that this is good.

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Just not any player on the team who stands out as elite statistically. If not I could see CP3 or Booker winning it.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1077 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:44 am

eyeatoma wrote:
DutchManDanFan wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Let's also look historically, most MVPs are on a very good team. Westbrook and Jokic being the rare exception. I think for Jokic to win it two years in a row he'll need to make his team better not worse than last year. Yes they're missing MPJ and Murray, but I just don't see voters doing it twice in a row.

Nash and Curry did it back to back and those were very good teams.

Denver had the 3rd seed in the West last year with a good record (47-25 = .653). Jokic deserved it last year. I think he needs 50+ wins (in 82 game season) to have a chance. So he needs 29-13 (= .69) or better from now on. Very unlikely.
I agree he deserved it with Embiid missing too many games.

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And yeah, he needs to at the very least have an equal season record wise.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1078 » by Cubbies2120 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:49 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
DutchManDanFan wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Let's also look historically, most MVPs are on a very good team. Westbrook and Jokic being the rare exception. I think for Jokic to win it two years in a row he'll need to make his team better not worse than last year. Yes they're missing MPJ and Murray, but I just don't see voters doing it twice in a row.

Nash and Curry did it back to back and those were very good teams.

Denver had the 3rd seed in the West last year with a good record (47-25 = .653). Jokic deserved it last year. I think he needs 50+ wins (in 82 game season) to have a chance. So he needs 29-13 (= .69) or better from now on. Very unlikely.
I agree he deserved it with Embiid missing too many games.

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He deserved it regardless of how many games Embiid missed.

Jokic was clearly the most valuable player in the NBA last year.

Jokic is carrying an even worse team this year. They're tied for 7th hardest schedule so far, so I assume IF Murray comes back, and the schedule *should* balance out towards end of year they can rack up the wins.

It's Giannis's MVP so far though, I changed my vote. He's been dominant and Curry's been in a slump.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1079 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:58 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
DutchManDanFan wrote:Denver had the 3rd seed in the West last year with a good record (47-25 = .653). Jokic deserved it last year. I think he needs 50+ wins (in 82 game season) to have a chance. So he needs 29-13 (= .69) or better from now on. Very unlikely.
I agree he deserved it with Embiid missing too many games.

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He deserved it regardless of how many games Embiid missed.

Jokic was clearly the most valuable player in the NBA last year.

Jokic is carrying an even worse team this year. They're tied for 7th hardest schedule so far, so I assume IF Murray comes back, and the schedule *should* balance out towards end of year they can rack up the wins.

It's Giannis's MVP so far though, I changed my vote. He's been dominant and Curry's been in a slump.


Wrong. Embiid was the front runner at the all star break. If he didn't miss those games afterwards, he would have won. PHilly had the best record in the the EAST, and Embiid was just as good.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1080 » by Cubbies2120 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:27 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:I agree he deserved it with Embiid missing too many games.

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He deserved it regardless of how many games Embiid missed.

Jokic was clearly the most valuable player in the NBA last year.

Jokic is carrying an even worse team this year. They're tied for 7th hardest schedule so far, so I assume IF Murray comes back, and the schedule *should* balance out towards end of year they can rack up the wins.

It's Giannis's MVP so far though, I changed my vote. He's been dominant and Curry's been in a slump.


Wrong. Embiid was the front runner at the all star break. If he didn't miss those games afterwards, he would have won. PHilly had the best record in the the EAST, and Embiid was just as good.


Those games right after all-star break that he missed, the team actually had a better winning % without him (70%) than they did on the season (68%).

Also, he wasn't the frontrunner - LeBron was going into the all star break (according to all betting odds) at twice as likely as Embiid to win it. Jokic overtook them both.

When Embiid DID come back after his injury hiatus, he averaged 26/9/2/2/1 and 3 TO on sub 50% shooting (14-6 team record).

In that same timespan, Jokic was putting up 27/10/8/1/1 and 3TO on 57% shooting (16-6 team record)
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