2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

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Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)

Stephen Curry
14
5%
Nikola Jokic
111
39%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
75
26%
Kevin Durant
6
2%
Joel Embiid
39
14%
Chris Paul
15
5%
Ja Morant
8
3%
Rudy Gobert
3
1%
DeMar Derozan
7
2%
LeBron James
10
3%
 
Total votes: 288

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1121 » by DutchManDanFan » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:28 am

Dutchball97 wrote:It is all relative imo. If all the top teams are solid all around teams without a clear MVP candidate star like the Suns and Bulls then I don't mind the MVP being on a sub-50 win team/lower than 3rd seed. I'd rather see a deserving MVP candidate on an average team win it than a fringe top 10 player on a top team.

If the Bucks go .500 from now on they finish with 46 wins. 50 wins is an easy target for them. There will be a deserving MVP candidate with 50+ wins. So the others have to beat him. I wrote down what I think is needed for every candidate to have a chance.

Dutchball97 wrote:As of now I think you could make an argument for any of Giannis, Jokic and Curry with Embiid and LeBron on the rise. KD just hasn't been playing well enough.

The difference is Giannis and the Bucks can continue to do what they did so far. The others need to do better. Better record (Jokic, LeBron, KD) or better efficiency (Steph). Embiid is on track but he can’t afford too many losses. If the Bucks play at their strength, they’re just better. It makes it difficult for Embiid to win.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1122 » by antonac » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:38 am

Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:For the life of me I can’t understand why Jokic is even in the top 3 of anybodys list, sure he has great advanced stats but his team sucks. You have to win to be a REAL candidate, KD, Embiid and Giannis are much stronger candidates because they have the numbers and their teams are way better record wise. Jokic because of team record should be in the 2nd tier with steph, demar and ja.

Btw Joel strengthens his case with a strong win over the Celtics with a modest performance (for him) of 25 13 and 6 in 32 mins.


If Jokic isn't a contender because the Nuggets are 6th seed then Embiid as the 5th seed also isn't in the running at the moment.

KD still being a MVP candidate is such a weird take with the Nets falling down the rankings, while KD is statistically closer to fringe top 10 players like CP3 and Gobert than he is to real MVP level players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, LeBron and arguably Embiid at this point.

People need to get some consistency with their seeding vs stats takes because it seems there are different rules for different players.


The problem with Embiid supporters is they live in a perpetual "what if..." reality.

What if he played more games?
What if he could perform consistently?
What if he defended to the best of his ability more often?

so "what if the sixers go on a run?!?!?" really isn't that unusual.

no other fanbase is as bad for seeing 2-3 games and going

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1123 » by eyeatoma » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:57 am

antonac wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:For the life of me I can’t understand why Jokic is even in the top 3 of anybodys list, sure he has great advanced stats but his team sucks. You have to win to be a REAL candidate, KD, Embiid and Giannis are much stronger candidates because they have the numbers and their teams are way better record wise. Jokic because of team record should be in the 2nd tier with steph, demar and ja.

Btw Joel strengthens his case with a strong win over the Celtics with a modest performance (for him) of 25 13 and 6 in 32 mins.


If Jokic isn't a contender because the Nuggets are 6th seed then Embiid as the 5th seed also isn't in the running at the moment.

KD still being a MVP candidate is such a weird take with the Nets falling down the rankings, while KD is statistically closer to fringe top 10 players like CP3 and Gobert than he is to real MVP level players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, LeBron and arguably Embiid at this point.

People need to get some consistency with their seeding vs stats takes because it seems there are different rules for different players.


The problem with Embiid supporters is they live in a perpetual "what if..." reality.

What if he played more games?
What if he could perform consistently?
What if he defended to the best of his ability more often?

so "what if the sixers go on a run?!?!?" really isn't that unusual.

no other fanbase is as bad for seeing 2-3 games and going

Image



You realize every fanbase does this right?

If Jokic just had better players, the team would be first in the NBA.
If MPJ's back wasn't messed up, we'd be so much better.
If the Jay's could just get a point guard then they'd be contenders.
If Harden wasn't fat, he would play better.
If CP3 just didn't get injured all the time the clippers would have won a championship.

Newsflash this is a forum, and this is what fans do. They hypothesize of how their favorite team, or a player on the team could perform better. LOL at you thinking this is only something that Sixers fans do.

What a terrible take.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1124 » by Hussien Fatal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:20 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:For the life of me I can’t understand why Jokic is even in the top 3 of anybodys list, sure he has great advanced stats but his team sucks. You have to win to be a REAL candidate, KD, Embiid and Giannis are much stronger candidates because they have the numbers and their teams are way better record wise. Jokic because of team record should be in the 2nd tier with steph, demar and ja.

Btw Joel strengthens his case with a strong win over the Celtics with a modest performance (for him) of 25 13 and 6 in 32 mins.


If Jokic isn't a contender because the Nuggets are 6th seed then Embiid as the 5th seed also isn't in the running at the moment.

KD still being a MVP candidate is such a weird take with the Nets falling down the rankings, while KD is statistically closer to fringe top 10 players like CP3 and Gobert than he is to real MVP level players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, LeBron and arguably Embiid at this point.

People need to get some consistency with their seeding vs stats takes because it seems there are different rules for different players.


Good job of making it seem closer than it is lol. Yes the sixers are 5th but they are 7 games over .500 and just 3.5 games outta 1st and 1.5 games outta 3rd place. The nuggets while a 6th seed are only 2 games over .500 and are about 10 games outta 1st. Sorry but Embiid has better chances to rise in the standings.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1125 » by Hussien Fatal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:33 pm

And still nobody has argued against my point that Jokic doesn’t make his teammates better, Porter regressed big time before his injury, Barton has plateaued, Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic all together on offense and Gordon has had better years playin in the poop storm in Orlando. Jokic just doesn’t elevate his teammates.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1126 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:33 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:For the life of me I can’t understand why Jokic is even in the top 3 of anybodys list, sure he has great advanced stats but his team sucks. You have to win to be a REAL candidate, KD, Embiid and Giannis are much stronger candidates because they have the numbers and their teams are way better record wise. Jokic because of team record should be in the 2nd tier with steph, demar and ja.

Btw Joel strengthens his case with a strong win over the Celtics with a modest performance (for him) of 25 13 and 6 in 32 mins.


If Jokic isn't a contender because the Nuggets are 6th seed then Embiid as the 5th seed also isn't in the running at the moment.

KD still being a MVP candidate is such a weird take with the Nets falling down the rankings, while KD is statistically closer to fringe top 10 players like CP3 and Gobert than he is to real MVP level players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, LeBron and arguably Embiid at this point.

People need to get some consistency with their seeding vs stats takes because it seems there are different rules for different players.


Good job of making it seem closer than it is lol. Yes the sixers are 5th but they are 7 games over .500 wand just 3.5 games outta 1st and 1.5 games outta 3rd place. The nuggets while a 6th seed are only 2 games over .500 and are about 10 games outta 1st. Sorry but Embiid has better chances to rise in the standings.


So first you say Embiid is a candidate right now because of team record and now it is because the 76ers have a better chance to rise in the standings than the Nuggets?

If the season ended right now Jokic would be ahead of Embiid in MVP voting, we can talk about Embiid's chances at the award when the 76ers ACTUALLY rise in the standings instead of just having a chance to do it. Sorry but Embiid's chances are just as hypothetical as Jokic and LeBron.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1127 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:36 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:And still nobody has argued against my point that Jokic doesn’t make his teammates better, Porter regressed big time before his injury, Barton has plateaued, Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic all together on offense and Gordon has had better years playin in the poop storm in Orlando. Jokic just doesn’t elevate his teammates.


First try to see how your argument works for Embiid before throwing it out there. Because there isn't one single player that became better once they went to the 76ers.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1128 » by Hussien Fatal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:36 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
If Jokic isn't a contender because the Nuggets are 6th seed then Embiid as the 5th seed also isn't in the running at the moment.

KD still being a MVP candidate is such a weird take with the Nets falling down the rankings, while KD is statistically closer to fringe top 10 players like CP3 and Gobert than he is to real MVP level players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, LeBron and arguably Embiid at this point.

People need to get some consistency with their seeding vs stats takes because it seems there are different rules for different players.


Good job of making it seem closer than it is lol. Yes the sixers are 5th but they are 7 games over .500 wand just 3.5 games outta 1st and 1.5 games outta 3rd place. The nuggets while a 6th seed are only 2 games over .500 and are about 10 games outta 1st. Sorry but Embiid has better chances to rise in the standings.


So first you say Embiid is a candidate right now because of team record and now it is because the 76ers have a better chance to rise in the standings than the Nuggets?

If the season ended right now Jokic would be ahead of Embiid in MVP voting, we can talk about Embiid's chances at the award when the 76ers ACTUALLY rise in the standings instead of just having a chance to do it. Sorry but Embiid's chances are just as hypothetical as Jokic and LeBron.


You clearly didn’t read im saying Joel is better this season because his team has won 5 more games than the nuggets even though they have played less games. The nuggets are 2 games over .500 while the sixers are 7 games over .500 and way closer to 1st. So yes because of team success he is a better candidate for the mvp award than Jokic is. You tried to sugar coat it by saying the nuggets are 6th while the sixers are 5th even though the win difference is bigger than the standing show.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1129 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:40 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
Good job of making it seem closer than it is lol. Yes the sixers are 5th but they are 7 games over .500 wand just 3.5 games outta 1st and 1.5 games outta 3rd place. The nuggets while a 6th seed are only 2 games over .500 and are about 10 games outta 1st. Sorry but Embiid has better chances to rise in the standings.


So first you say Embiid is a candidate right now because of team record and now it is because the 76ers have a better chance to rise in the standings than the Nuggets?

If the season ended right now Jokic would be ahead of Embiid in MVP voting, we can talk about Embiid's chances at the award when the 76ers ACTUALLY rise in the standings instead of just having a chance to do it. Sorry but Embiid's chances are just as hypothetical as Jokic and LeBron.


You clearly didn’t read im saying Joel is better this season because his team has won 5 more games than the nuggets even though they have played less games. The nuggets are 2 games over .500 while the sixers are 7 games over .500 and way closer to 1st. So yes because of team success he is a better candidate for the mvp award than Jokic is .


Wait, do you think basketball is an individual game? Yet you don't treat all the better teams than the 76ers the same way, curious. By your logic the best player in the league is Chris Paul.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1130 » by Hussien Fatal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:40 pm

:oops:
Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:And still nobody has argued against my point that Jokic doesn’t make his teammates better, Porter regressed big time before his injury, Barton has plateaued, Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic all together on offense and Gordon has had better years playin in the poop storm in Orlando. Jokic just doesn’t elevate his teammates.


First try to see how your argument works for Embiid before throwing it out there. Because there isn't one single player that became better once they went to the 76ers.



Just to name a few but Jj redick, Seth curry, Covington, tyrese Maxey and Niang are all having or had career years playing next to Embiid.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1131 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:41 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:And still nobody has argued against my point that Jokic doesn’t make his teammates better, Porter regressed big time before his injury, Barton has plateaued, Murray looks better when he ignores Jokic all together on offense and Gordon has had better years playin in the poop storm in Orlando. Jokic just doesn’t elevate his teammates.


First try to see how your argument works for Embiid before throwing it out there. Because there isn't one single player that became better once they went to the 76ers.



Just to name a few but Jj redick, Seth curry, Covington, tyrese Maxey and Moana are all have or had career years playing next to Embiid.


You're just looking at ppg, aren't you?
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1132 » by Hussien Fatal » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:43 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
First try to see how your argument works for Embiid before throwing it out there. Because there isn't one single player that became better once they went to the 76ers.



Just to name a few but Jj redick, Seth curry, Covington, tyrese Maxey and Moana are all have or had career years playing next to Embiid.


You're just looking at ppg, aren't you?


Nope across the board they all had career years numbers and success wise. You can’t argue that fact.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1133 » by velkisimo » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:48 pm

eyeatoma wrote:You realize every fanbase does this right?

If Jokic just had better players, the team would be first in the NBA.
If MPJ's back wasn't messed up, we'd be so much better.
If the Jay's could just get a point guard then they'd be contenders.
If Harden wasn't fat, he would play better.
If CP3 just didn't get injured all the time the clippers would have won a championship.

Newsflash this is a forum, and this is what fans do. They hypothesize of how their favorite team, or a player on the team could perform better. LOL at you thinking this is only something that Sixers fans do.

What a terrible take.

Welcome to RealGm!


His what ifs were directly tied to a player. So a person impacted can influence those. Yours are tied to a team. So i would call your analogy also terrible. And two terribles dont make it not terrible :)

Anyways, i do think Embiid has been balling as of late and deserves more attention. He should be in the conversation now and if he keeps this up, one of the top candidates too.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1134 » by Sgt Major » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:49 pm

This Hussein guy is obsessed.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1135 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:07 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:

Just to name a few but Jj redick, Seth curry, Covington, tyrese Maxey and Moana are all have or had career years playing next to Embiid.


You're just looking at ppg, aren't you?


Nope across the board they all had career years numbers and success wise. You can’t argue that fact.


I can absolutely argue that "deluded opinion".

Redick: Made the finals in 09 with the Magic. He had better advanced stats with the Clippers from 2014-2016 than he did during his time with the 76ers.

Curry: Made the conference finals in 2019 with the Blazers. Had better advanced stats in 2017 and 2020 both with the Mavs than he did with the 76ers.

Covington: Not a lot of play-off success but equalled his best run with the 76ers, while playing for the Rockets in 2020. He also had way better numbers during that run than in 2018 with Philly. Despite playing with the 76ers for most of his career, his best basketball came during his short stint in Minnesota.

Maxey: Literally only played for the 76ers so nothing to compare it to, weird to include him.

The things you're saying are facts are just objectively not true. I really don't have an interest in talking with someone who can't even seperate opinion from fact.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1136 » by eyeatoma » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:26 pm

velkisimo wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:You realize every fanbase does this right?

If Jokic just had better players, the team would be first in the NBA.
If MPJ's back wasn't messed up, we'd be so much better.
If the Jay's could just get a point guard then they'd be contenders.
If Harden wasn't fat, he would play better.
If CP3 just didn't get injured all the time the clippers would have won a championship.

Newsflash this is a forum, and this is what fans do. They hypothesize of how their favorite team, or a player on the team could perform better. LOL at you thinking this is only something that Sixers fans do.

What a terrible take.

Welcome to RealGm!


His what ifs were directly tied to a player. So a person impacted can influence those. Yours are tied to a team. So i would call your analogy also terrible. And two terribles dont make it not terrible :)

Anyways, i do think Embiid has been balling as of late and deserves more attention. He should be in the conversation now and if he keeps this up, one of the top candidates too.


? Lol you don't think people speculate on the potential of players on realgm? You think that's only a sixers phenomena?
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1137 » by velkisimo » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:33 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
velkisimo wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:You realize every fanbase does this right?

If Jokic just had better players, the team would be first in the NBA.
If MPJ's back wasn't messed up, we'd be so much better.
If the Jay's could just get a point guard then they'd be contenders.
If Harden wasn't fat, he would play better.
If CP3 just didn't get injured all the time the clippers would have won a championship.

Newsflash this is a forum, and this is what fans do. They hypothesize of how their favorite team, or a player on the team could perform better. LOL at you thinking this is only something that Sixers fans do.

What a terrible take.

Welcome to RealGm!


His what ifs were directly tied to a player. So a person impacted can influence those. Yours are tied to a team. So i would call your analogy also terrible. And two terribles dont make it not terrible :)

Anyways, i do think Embiid has been balling as of late and deserves more attention. He should be in the conversation now and if he keeps this up, one of the top candidates too.


? Lol you don't think people speculate on the potential of players on realgm? You think that's only a sixers phenomena?


I never said that. Just called out difference in analogies :)
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1138 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:45 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
velkisimo wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:You realize every fanbase does this right?

If Jokic just had better players, the team would be first in the NBA.
If MPJ's back wasn't messed up, we'd be so much better.
If the Jay's could just get a point guard then they'd be contenders.
If Harden wasn't fat, he would play better.
If CP3 just didn't get injured all the time the clippers would have won a championship.

Newsflash this is a forum, and this is what fans do. They hypothesize of how their favorite team, or a player on the team could perform better. LOL at you thinking this is only something that Sixers fans do.

What a terrible take.

Welcome to RealGm!


His what ifs were directly tied to a player. So a person impacted can influence those. Yours are tied to a team. So i would call your analogy also terrible. And two terribles dont make it not terrible :)

Anyways, i do think Embiid has been balling as of late and deserves more attention. He should be in the conversation now and if he keeps this up, one of the top candidates too.


? Lol you don't think people speculate on the potential of players on realgm? You think that's only a sixers phenomena?


To me personally I think it is odd how it is assumed Embiid will continue on his path of destruction that he's been on the last couple of weeks and that the 76ers will continue to rise in the standings, while no other MVP candidate gets the benefit of the doubt besides maybe Giannis at the moment.

If the Nuggets get healthy they could easily rise up the standings quickly, we all know the Lakers should be better than they are as well. Then you've got Curry who despite his slump, is still a top 5 player statistically over the whole season and has the best record of any MVP candidate but he's completely written off. Meanwhile the 76ers have 4 teams ahead of them that are all looking legit and unlikely to suddenly fall off. If any of the current top 4 seeds in the east fall it is likely the Bulls who have been dealing with some key injuries as of late and they still have the biggest lead on Philly.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1139 » by Big J » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:22 pm

Curry has now beaten the Suns, Nets, Bulls, & Jazz on their own home floors. A big part of this award is how you perform in big games against the best of the best.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1140 » by Infinite Llamas » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:38 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:For the life of me I can’t understand why Jokic is even in the top 3 of anybodys list, sure he has great advanced stats but his team sucks. You have to win to be a REAL candidate, KD, Embiid and Giannis are much stronger candidates because they have the numbers and their teams are way better record wise. Jokic because of team record should be in the 2nd tier with steph, demar and ja.

Btw Joel strengthens his case with a strong win over the Celtics with a modest performance (for him) of 25 13 and 6 in 32 mins.


Sixers record 24-17
Denver record 21-19

That is what constitutes as a way better record? Hell, not even David Copperfield would attempt to cross a canyon that great in size.
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