Official NBA COVID Protocol thread (please read the OP)

[ItsDanger]

I believe agencies/governments need to establish a target/objective for the public. Zero covid is not realistic.

And no one is pushing for zero COVID. So congrats I guess? But the strawmen can stop any time now

Please quantify the objective then. Their actions indicate an unrealistic goal.

[FNQ]

I believe agencies/governments need to establish a target/objective for the public. Zero covid is not realistic.

And no one is pushing for zero COVID. So congrats I guess? But the strawmen can stop any time now

Please quantify the objective then. Their actions indicate an unrealistic goal.

I'm not just going to keep quoting my first post here. What part is confusing?

[ItsDanger]

And no one is pushing for zero COVID. So congrats I guess? But the strawmen can stop any time now

Please quantify the objective then. Their actions indicate an unrealistic goal.

I'm not just going to keep quoting my first post here. What part is confusing?

None, I want numerical targets provided to the taxpaying citizens. Surely, a reasonable compromise at this point. No firm end target has been provided yet.

[FNQ]

Please quantify the objective then. Their actions indicate an unrealistic goal.

I'm not just going to keep quoting my first post here. What part is confusing?

None, I want numerical targets provided to the taxpaying citizens. Surely, a reasonable compromise at this point. No firm end target has been provided yet.

Numerical targets of what? What are you talking about? Be clear

[ItsDanger]

I'm not just going to keep quoting my first post here. What part is confusing?

None, I want numerical targets provided to the taxpaying citizens. Surely, a reasonable compromise at this point. No firm end target has been provided yet.

Numerical targets of what? What are you talking about? Be clear

Exactly. There are none.

[FNQ]

Wow

Please have an idea of what you are talking about before engaging. What is your end goal here? What is it you want? "A numerical value" - related to what? What change are you looking to see here? Anything.. you throw out this generality "I WANT A NUMBER" but give no context to what you're on about

But I'll play ball. So my answer is 10. I'm not sure what the question is, but my answer is 10.

[ItsDanger]

If you have to ask me, then there hasn't been a numerical objective set by anybody. What I'm asking is for agencies/government to establish a target to return to normal conditions. Everyone can argue what those would be, but the fact is there is no tangible number to meet. At least not for public consumption. One reporter should at least raise the question. It's been 2 years.

[Cartuse]

I believe agencies/governments need to establish a target/objective for the public. Zero covid is not realistic.

You mean like 2 weeks? Flatten the curve? Don't overcrowd hospitals? Wait for the vaccine? Wait for every single child in the planet to be vaccinated? Wait for... whatever new BS we can come up with?

Who cares about targets when the goalposts are alive and constantly running away from you? I think people keep obeying at this point mostly due to cognitive dissonance.

Conditions keep changing but the latent answer is always the same, shut everything down. We had a bubble, then we had regular testing, now we have a vaccinated league and a weak variant. And we're still having the same discussion. Isn't that odd?

Or disobeying for the same reason. Which is actually way more true. Dunning-Kreuger very much in effect.

Disobeying because the goalposts keep shifting? That sounds quite logical to me, what's your point exactly?

And please spare me the holier than thou Dunning Kruger talk, that's getting a bit old. All you've done time and time again is base the truth of your arguments and "data" based on how many "scientists" or rather media outlets regurgitate it. You take the data ready made, basing its accuracy, pertinence, veracity and interpretation on presuppositions and faith and take it as uncorrupted truth because it's related to your area of expertise and you want to feel like you know what's going on. I get it, we all do.

Even if someone like that McCollough guy comes out with all his god damn credentials you will still find a way to discredit everything he says (I imagine), because if you don't, you open up to the possibility that this **** show is purely power and political oriented and the whole narrative you've been defending goes to hell.

So yeah, tell me how the unvaccinated and people who won't stand for this nanny State BS are the real cause of things being the way they are. And then lecture us on objectivity and dunning kruger while you keep willfully ignoring the reality that what's going on goes WAY beyond a health crisis.

[FNQ]

If you have to ask me, then there hasn't been a numerical objective set by anybody. What I'm asking is for agencies/government to establish a target to return to normal conditions. Everyone can argue what those would be, but the fact is there is no tangible number to meet. At least not for public consumption. One reporter should at least raise the question. It's been 2 years.

Do you understand that the scope of your question could mean anything? So again, I ask - what exactly do you want a number for? How could you possibly think this is a gotcha?

Or are you asking to quantify something that we dont have control over? Like yelling at a public official "when's this hurricane gonna go away? I want an answer!"

[ItsDanger]

If you have to ask me, then there hasn't been a numerical objective set by anybody. What I'm asking is for agencies/government to establish a target to return to normal conditions. Everyone can argue what those would be, but the fact is there is no tangible number to meet. At least not for public consumption. One reporter should at least raise the question. It's been 2 years.

Do you understand that the scope of your question could mean anything? So again, I ask - what exactly do you want a number for? How could you possibly think this is a gotcha?

Or are you asking to quantify something that we dont have control over? Like yelling at a public official "when's this hurricane gonna go away? I want an answer!"

To return to normal. Obviously to put in restrictions some numerical factors were met or exceeded.

[FNQ]

You mean like 2 weeks? Flatten the curve? Don't overcrowd hospitals? Wait for the vaccine? Wait for every single child in the planet to be vaccinated? Wait for... whatever new BS we can come up with?

Who cares about targets when the goalposts are alive and constantly running away from you? I think people keep obeying at this point mostly due to cognitive dissonance.

Conditions keep changing but the latent answer is always the same, shut everything down. We had a bubble, then we had regular testing, now we have a vaccinated league and a weak variant. And we're still having the same discussion. Isn't that odd?

Or disobeying for the same reason. Which is actually way more true. Dunning-Kreuger very much in effect.

Disobeying because the goalposts keep shifting? That sounds quite logical to me, what's your point exactly?

And please spare me the holier than thou Dunning Kruger talk, that's getting a bit old. All you've done time and time again is base the truth of your arguments and "data" based on how many "scientists" or rather media outlets regurgitate it. You take the data ready made, basing its accuracy, pertinence, veracity and interpretation on presuppositions and faith and take it as uncorrupted truth because it's related to your area of expertise and you want to feel like you know what's going on. I get it, we all do.

Even if someone like that McCollough guy comes out with all his god damn credentials you will still find a way to discredit everything he says (I imagine), because if you don't, you open up to the possibility that this **** show is purely power and political oriented and the whole narrative you've been defending goes to hell.

So yeah, tell me how the unvaccinated and people who won't stand for this nanny State BS are the real cause of things being the way they are. And then lecture us on objectivity and dunning kruger while you keep willfully ignoring the reality that what's going on goes WAY beyond a health crisis.

My point is, people like you say things ("a lot of governments are eager to go to lockdowns") repeatedly, presumably to like-minded people, until you believe its true, and then it has to be addressed. You say people are basically accepting what the experts tell them because of cognitive dissonance - not sure that tracks based on its definition, but I get where you're going with it. But apparently it doesn't work in the other direction?

Nah. What you're describing is an appeal to authority, basically them deferring to the experts and voraciously fighting for it, despite not understanding it. And that's fine, but its only a fallacy when its not true. And its been true, the experts and medical community have been mostly correct, and infinitely more so than the 'intellectual' counter-culture created by their authority.

"All you've done is base the truth of your arguments on data and how many scientists regurgitate it" - do you hear yourself? You are trying to talk down that I base my arguments on data. Literally, basing it on facts is BAD to you?

Once again, I said that testing was important for various reasons, which were in the first post. You've now run with that into whining about a nanny state thats not happening, decrying the use of data to form educated opinions, all while pointing at the other side and claiming cognitive dissonance. Your arguments before were hollow and I showed you that, and you appeared to understand. Yet here you are some months later right back in the same place, attempting to create narratives about lockdowns that don't exist, arguing with me because I dared to say that increased testing has value, but taking an extreme stance of doing nothing or doing too much would be counterproductive.

And then on top of all that reference a doctor who's claims have been debunked at every level - from HCQ, to vaccine safety, to vaccine effectiveness.. what has he done or said now, presumably on a YT channel with minimal support from physicians, if any?

Take all that curiosity and point it towards the side you stand on. Because the second you decry people using data and facts for their arguments, you've now entered a point where the only reason to respond to you is to show others how ridiculous their side is, and maybe that has them reflect on why they think what they do, and if they should change it. Because your whole post lacks merit or any kind of logical argument. If you'd like to explain what your exact problem is with how COVID is being handled, citing exactly whats wrong or what you don't understand, I'm more than happy to explain what I know. But that's not what you're doing.

[FNQ]

If you have to ask me, then there hasn't been a numerical objective set by anybody. What I'm asking is for agencies/government to establish a target to return to normal conditions. Everyone can argue what those would be, but the fact is there is no tangible number to meet. At least not for public consumption. One reporter should at least raise the question. It's been 2 years.

Do you understand that the scope of your question could mean anything? So again, I ask - what exactly do you want a number for? How could you possibly think this is a gotcha?

Or are you asking to quantify something that we dont have control over? Like yelling at a public official "when's this hurricane gonna go away? I want an answer!"

To return to normal. Obviously to put in restrictions some numerical factors were met or exceeded.

Ok so you want to know.. how many days/months/years until there are absolutely no restrictions to COVID. Is that the question? Want to make sure before I answer

[ItsDanger]

Do you understand that the scope of your question could mean anything? So again, I ask - what exactly do you want a number for? How could you possibly think this is a gotcha?

Or are you asking to quantify something that we dont have control over? Like yelling at a public official "when's this hurricane gonna go away? I want an answer!"

To return to normal. Obviously to put in restrictions some numerical factors were met or exceeded.

Ok so you want to know.. how many days/months/years until there are absolutely no restrictions to COVID. Is that the question? Want to make sure before I answer

More or less. This is what I stated to my colleagues in March 2020 with initial lockdowns: if they don't have an exit strategy, who knows how long this will last. Zero covid cases is pure fantasy. It's December 2021 and my question remains valid.

[Cartuse]

Or disobeying for the same reason. Which is actually way more true. Dunning-Kreuger very much in effect.

Disobeying because the goalposts keep shifting? That sounds quite logical to me, what's your point exactly?

And please spare me the holier than thou Dunning Kruger talk, that's getting a bit old. All you've done time and time again is base the truth of your arguments and "data" based on how many "scientists" or rather media outlets regurgitate it. You take the data ready made, basing its accuracy, pertinence, veracity and interpretation on presuppositions and faith and take it as uncorrupted truth because it's related to your area of expertise and you want to feel like you know what's going on. I get it, we all do.

Even if someone like that McCollough guy comes out with all his god damn credentials you will still find a way to discredit everything he says (I imagine), because if you don't, you open up to the possibility that this **** show is purely power and political oriented and the whole narrative you've been defending goes to hell.

So yeah, tell me how the unvaccinated and people who won't stand for this nanny State BS are the real cause of things being the way they are. And then lecture us on objectivity and dunning kruger while you keep willfully ignoring the reality that what's going on goes WAY beyond a health crisis.

My point is, people like you say things ("a lot of governments are eager to go to lockdowns") repeatedly, presumably to like-minded people, until you believe its true, and then it has to be addressed. You say people are basically accepting what the experts tell them because of cognitive dissonance - not sure that tracks based on its definition, but I get where you're going with it. But apparently it doesn't work in the other direction?

Nah. What you're describing is an appeal to authority, basically them deferring to the experts and voraciously fighting for it, despite not understanding it. And that's fine, but its only a fallacy when its not true. And its been true, the experts and medical community have been mostly correct, and infinitely more so than the 'intellectual' counter-culture created by their authority.

"All you've done is base the truth of your arguments on data and how many scientists regurgitate it" - do you hear yourself? You are trying to talk down that I base my arguments on data. Literally, basing it on facts is BAD to you?

Come on man, the air quotes you left out were there for a reason. You talk data as if it was
A) Gathered by god himself, completely objective, reflective of reality and with no distortion or bias whatsoever, be it unintentional, intentional or both. Completely free of any political pressures or manipulations, because people would never do that. Wait actually yes, some people do that but nobody who's in a position of power
B) Produced by nature (or reality itself) and not a product of human interpretation. As if scientists were coming into everything with a fresh mind, and not heavily influenced by what they're constantly being told is going on and that they should interpret is going on, or else...

Once again, I said that testing was important for various reasons, which were in the first post. You've now run with that into whining about a nanny state thats not happening, decrying the use of data to form educated opinions, all while pointing at the other side and claiming cognitive dissonance.

Nanny state is not happening yet? Well I don't think we can have a discussion on this if you're gonna take this attitude. Lol I can't even go to any indoor spaces outside of transportation and grocery stores, but yeah, that's definitely not happening. I can't travel to my own country, my work has just announced that we can't come to the office starting next week, things are being pressured into cancellation left and right but yeah, what ever you say bro. It's all in my head

And then on top of all that reference a doctor who's claims have been debunked at every level - from HCQ, to vaccine safety, to vaccine effectiveness.. what has he done or said now, presumably on a YT channel with minimal support from physicians, if any?

Well it would be very scientific of you if you actually listened to the guy instead of letting professional debunkers do that for you, no? He went to Joe Rogan, the biggest audience podcast in the world, and laid out his case for 3 hours. A 3 second Google search would've suficed. Maybe you should take a listen (if you have the time), at least so that you're aware of the dangerous misinformation that very well educated fool/devil is spreading to the gullible audience for the perverse goal of... money? Idk, he must have a very perverse agenda it seems, because he's definitely no idiot when it comes to medical expertise, so he must be misinforming on purpose.

Next time please address the things said and not who says it, so that you fall a bit more in line with the things you preach.

Take all that curiosity and point it towards the side you stand on.

Thank you for the advice, I've done that. You want me to criticize the "other side" to make you feel better? Ok, here goes:
there are lots of people who love fear porn and paranoia porn and deep down want some catastrophe to happen to shake up their uninteresting lives and provide something worthy to experience. Sadly they have no idea what they're wishing for and they contribute to this division as much as anyone else, if not more.
Now it's your turn. Since you're all about "data", you could start by looking at what the "experts at every level" say about McCollough, and then looking at what McCollough's data/arguments say, and explaining exactly why he is wrong, other than an appeal to (crowd) authority.

If you'd like to explain what your exact problem is with how COVID is being handled, citing exactly what's wrong or what you don't understand, I'm more than happy to explain what I know. But that's not what you're doing.

Ok doc, Let's kick it off with this one here.

1) Why are we blaming public policy failures on the way people (and a small fraction of them at that!) react to it. Isn't that like blaming your customers for not buying your product? If we're just a herd that the experts need to lead to the promised land, shouldn't the responsibility of policy failure be on the geniuses that thought it up? Why is it we are not responsible for doing the right thing (experts are, we just need to obey) but we ARE responsible for their failures?

2) Why couldn't the CDC prove a single case of Covid reinfection upon FOIA request? Surely there have been tons of "experts" publishing "data", so why couldn't the CDC?

[Pointgod]

To return to normal. Obviously to put in restrictions some numerical factors were met or exceeded.

Ok so you want to know.. how many days/months/years until there are absolutely no restrictions to COVID. Is that the question? Want to make sure before I answer

More or less. This is what I stated to my colleagues in March 2020 with initial lockdowns: if they don't have an exit strategy, who knows how long this will last. Zero covid cases is pure fantasy. It's December 2021 and my question remains valid.

Curious to know your plan genius. What what be your strategy to address covid? You’re far from an expert so feel to keep it high level.

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

?s=21 Bubble when

[ItsDanger]

Ok so you want to know.. how many days/months/years until there are absolutely no restrictions to COVID. Is that the question? Want to make sure before I answer

More or less. This is what I stated to my colleagues in March 2020 with initial lockdowns: if they don't have an exit strategy, who knows how long this will last. Zero covid cases is pure fantasy. It's December 2021 and my question remains valid.

Curious to know your plan genius. What what be your strategy to address covid? You’re far from an expert so feel to keep it high level.

Reduce to historical norms. Endemic status. But governments should quantify that for everyone. It's the only realistic objective.

[Liam_Gallagher]

Let the asymtomatic players play. Enough is enough.

It honestly boggles my mind how someone isn’t allowed to play who feels perfectly fine lol.

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Jellybeans]

This is on NBA.Lets not test daily people who are vaccinated.
Lets test everyone when someone gets it.
Lakers player was sent home from Dallas after flying with the team.Someone was showing pic where only DJ on plane wears mask.
How could it happen.Shocker=Sarcastic