[Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing...

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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#301 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:41 pm

Don’t see how his current charade has kept his value the same. Anyway you look at it, either he is in some mental purgatory that is keeping him out indefinitely from playing basketball or he is one of the biggest divas in recent NBA history.

Haven’t seen a guy making his type of money literally go out of his way to not play. Don’t see how incoming teams look at this and will trade their best or second best guy unless they also want out (and subsequently also lowers their own trade value).

That isn’t to mention you’d have to sell the trade to ownership and the fans. I only see it looking like a positive for teams with no real future plan who need to blow it up. Apparently none of those teams have guys good enough (although I’m def taking a Dejuante Murray package from the Spurs, bet they even take Harris back too)
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#302 » by therealozzykhan » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:43 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:Morey should be fired if he can't find a trade. Period.


lolll. ok.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#303 » by jamaalstar21 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:49 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
KramerDSP wrote:My take is that Daryl Morey is waiting for Vivek Ranadive to blink. Based on the chatter about Fox today, my belief is that Morey is talking to the Pelicans and letting them know that he can get them Fox if they give up Ingram (with Simmons going to Sacramento). I don't see Ingram as a "top-25" player, but he can be sold as a player who will be locked up for multiple years and who is on Embiid's timeline. I think it's Haliburton or Ingram at the deadline or nothing happens until the draft.

On an aside, I don't get all this hand wringing about Morey. The owners are on board. The franchise player is on board. Someone will ultimately pay up for the rights to Simmons. And you have to think the Sacramento Kings are the most likely franchise to do this, in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs.


If I'm the pelicans I'm taking Simmons over Fox.
They are crying out for a defensive wing that can cover Zions flaws. Simmons can also step into Zions role when he's inevitably injured


True but can you really play Zion and Simmons together at all? The Pelicans put the ball in Zions hands, so while you get 2 monstrously athletic ball handlers, you have 2 guys who need the ball and can't shoot. It might be impossible.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#304 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:03 pm

therealozzykhan wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:Morey should be fired if he can't find a trade. Period.


lolll. ok.


Compelling.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#305 » by Ballerhogger » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:06 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
therealozzykhan wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:Morey should be fired if he can't find a trade. Period.


lolll. ok.


Compelling.

if he cant find deal by the end of next summer pending how their playoff run goes he might on the hot seat. Hes not on the hot seat right now.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#306 » by kuclas » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:38 pm

This is the new blueprint. Can u imagine if embiid in off season after another 1/2nd round exit refused to show up and claim mental issues. And embid would have 5 season left in his new super max contract

The trade offers would also be low ball. Cause posters will stay embiid refuses to show up and has mental issues. So posters say just take hield bagley barnes and 3 first round picks.

Yet sixers fan (rightly say) embiid has 5 years left and just turn age 28 summer 2022 and morey has no incentive to trade embiid.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#307 » by kivancb » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:45 pm

Well that's a given, as Simmons still has not missed a three pointer this season yet. The man's value just rises up.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#308 » by bebopdeluxe » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:56 am

VDT wrote:
realball wrote:
Okay Russell averaging 20/7 on 36% from 3 makes him a bench player, but somehow Simmons averaging 14/8 on 0% from 3 can still make a star impact. You're delusional.


Lol, you dont make terrible sense.

Russell is a low level volume scorer with crap efficiency and no defense. No good team wants that archetype unless he comes off the bench on a limited role. That's all he can be on a good team. Again this is why all his previous teams moved him as soon as they tried to field a good team, and i mean all 3 of his previous teams. Which is why he moves from one bad team to other padding his stats on his way to a big contract. He is a completely negative contract and no one wants him.

Simmons role was not to score on the Sixers and the team's playstyle didnt fit him at all. On the right team he can easily be a close to 20/8/8 player with excellent defense, which is clearly star level impact. And he can do it that on good teams also, which makes him actually useful, unlike Russell.

realball wrote:Obviously the Sixers have no leverage lol. Their star player has mental issues, in what world do they think that lands them a better player? Why should Morey expect full value for a defected product? When a player plays badly, his value drops, it's not complicated. When he doesn't play at all, it gets worse.


If your argument is about leverage say it and dont talk about "fair" trades. Again though you are completely lost. For one Simmons doesnt have any mental issues, he just doesnt want to play for the Sixers because he doesnt think it helps his career at this point. Simmon's value also doesnt change whether he plays or not. He is young and everyone know what he can do. I am pretty sure every GM has an opinion of Simmon's value as a player and that hasnt changed over the last months he is off the court. What changes all the time is the potential trade value, how much you could potentially get by trading him. This has dropped since his trade request became known but this is something that easily changes with time. If another team is forced to make a trade then Sixers could be able to get an actual fair trade. And this is what Morey is trying to do. For the Sixers a bad trade is worse than no trade so they are waiting until other teams are also forced to make a trade.

realball wrote:The difference between Lillard/Beal and Simmons is far greater than Simmons and Russell/Fox. Some lowly picks don't make up the difference between Lillard and Simmons, but some picks in the teens + Russell is far closer to fair value for Simmons.


You are overrating both Beal and Lillard here. Lillard will miss this season probably. By the next playoffs he will be almost 33 as a diminutive scoring first pg getting an absurd amount of money. He doesnt have much value really, i would probably consider his contract a negative right now. Beal is an expiring and we are talking about a player that hasnt done much, other than score a lot of points on bad teams. He is overrated as a player and as an expiring contract his value is also not that great, especially if he doesnt want to stay with the Wizards.


realball wrote:Yeah, because we can expect Sixers fans to be the least biased about this topic lol.


Dude, it's not about being biased. If the Sixers fans genuinely thought that Morey was hurting the team with what he is doing they would be up in arms. The fact that no one complains, even here on the forums, should tell you that what Morey is doing makes sense, even if you dont like it for whatever reason.


realball wrote:Embiid missed like 20 games last year and they were still top of the East. He's missed a bunch of games this year and they are still top 5. Your argument about Joel's injuries aren't relevant.


Again, you are off the mark. People argue that Morey needs to make a trade because Embiid is injury prone and no one knows how long he will be reasonably healthy and play at this level. Well, if that's the case then there is a pretty good chance that Sixers' future picks will be valuable. Again, people blaming Morey cant even form a coherent argument and just spam their nonsensical "arguments" on this forum. I am pretty sure most people here blaming Morey just want to see the Sixers fail and are annoyed that Morey refuses to make a bad trade.


Post of the thread right here. Well done.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#309 » by simonbampfield » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:07 am

Synciere wrote:Random Rankings from some site:

1 Giannis Antetokounmpo
2 Kevin Durant
3 Stephen Curry
4 Nikola Jokic
5 LeBron James
6 Luka Doncic
7 Joel Embiid
8 Jimmy Butler
9 Paul George
10 James Harden
11 Chris Paul
12 Damian Lillard
13 Devin Booker
14 Jayson Tatum
15 Anthony Davis
16 Donovan Mitchell
17 Trae Young
18 DeMar DeRozan
19 Ja Morant Grizzlies
20 Rudy Gobert
21 Bam Adebayo
22 Khris Middleton Bucks
23 Zach LaVine
24 Draymond Green
25 Bradley Beal
26 Karl-Anthony Towns
27 Jrue Holiday
28 LaMelo Ball
29 Jaylen Brown
30 Domatas Sabonis

I think the top 17 are a clear no go..

Maybe the Bulls would give up DeRozan or Lavine.... but why? They already have Ball. Bucks just won with Middleton and Jrue. Green would make sense for the Warriors, but I don't think he's really to 25. Celtics have already said they won't move Tatum or Jaylen Brown. Does Sabonis fit with Embiid? Gobert, Towns and Bam don't. Beal has taken himself off the table, but he'll be a free agent soon and can just pick his own team. No reason to go to Philly.

I'm not sure where Morey is seeing this top 25 talent coming from. It's either LIllard or Beal and neither have said they'll demand a trade. It could be the Bulls players but they're the top seed right now. Why mess that up for Simmons?


Expand this into the top 50-60 and I think you'll find a similar story. Sure there will be players that aren't as good in theory overall as Ben, but their player a) most likely hasn't asked for a trade, b) refused to play for said team, c) refused to shoot in the final quarter of more than once in the last quarter of 4 straight PO games. Now, to be fair he is a beast in other areas of the game, but anyone trying to detract from other teams players, ie Russell and continually bring him up as trash, is ridiculous.
I can say with all honesty that the Kings will absolutely not have Haliburton in any Simmons trade. The poster earlier said they would accept a Hali/picks trade, because they need that player to play defence. Well, yes Hali plays D, is one of the only players that is a +defender on the Kings, but he shoots 40+% from 3. He is not going to get traded for Ben. The picks would be coming the other way around.

Can any 6er fan propose a trade of Ben and put in a sensible reason why the team trading for him does it? I can see many teams trading for him, yes, but not 1 of them is sending out a star. The reason is he needs to add to the current core. Who is going to rebuild around him? Why would they? The 6ers have an MVP candidate around him and they can't win it all. Please tell me why a team would gift the 6ers a star that is in the top 50, top 75 players? I'm not saying the 6ers have to accept any trade, absolutely not. Nor do any other teams. But everything that Morey was hoping for, Blazers not in POs, Wizards looking shaky etc. It's all happened, yet no trade and now, Blazers will move forward without Dame on the table. Beal isn't available still. Fox/Hali still isn't on the table, for Ben at least. Murray isn't getting dealt for Ben, White would be. It's pretty much gone the 6ers way still, and yet the offers aren't there.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#310 » by marcush » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:13 am

kuclas wrote:This is the new blueprint. Can u imagine if embiid in off season after another 1/2nd round exit refused to show up and claim mental issues. And embid would have 5 season left in his new super max contract

The trade offers would also be low ball. Cause posters will stay embiid refuses to show up and has mental issues. So posters say just take hield bagley barnes and 3 first round picks.

Yet sixers fan (rightly say) embiid has 5 years left and just turn age 28 summer 2022 and morey has no incentive to trade embiid.

This really isn’t the new blueprint.

Embiid would never do this. The majority of NBA players are absolute competitors.

Simmons is an outlier. Scared to compete. Very unusual.

Would rather pay fines than face up to his teammates and fans.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#311 » by monopoman » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:26 am

I think most teams would kill to have Embiid on the roster even if he started developing some minor issues, can't say the same for Simmons.

Trying to even compare the two is a joke Embiid is the far superior player.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#312 » by simonbampfield » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:28 am

jamaalstar21 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
KramerDSP wrote:My take is that Daryl Morey is waiting for Vivek Ranadive to blink. Based on the chatter about Fox today, my belief is that Morey is talking to the Pelicans and letting them know that he can get them Fox if they give up Ingram (with Simmons going to Sacramento). I don't see Ingram as a "top-25" player, but he can be sold as a player who will be locked up for multiple years and who is on Embiid's timeline. I think it's Haliburton or Ingram at the deadline or nothing happens until the draft.

On an aside, I don't get all this hand wringing about Morey. The owners are on board. The franchise player is on board. Someone will ultimately pay up for the rights to Simmons. And you have to think the Sacramento Kings are the most likely franchise to do this, in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs.


If I'm the pelicans I'm taking Simmons over Fox.
They are crying out for a defensive wing that can cover Zions flaws. Simmons can also step into Zions role when he's inevitably injured


True but can you really play Zion and Simmons together at all? The Pelicans put the ball in Zions hands, so while you get 2 monstrously athletic ball handlers, you have 2 guys who need the ball and can't shoot. It might be impossible.


Why would the Kings take Simmons instead of Ingram though? They wouldn't.

There is this "I don't get all this hand wringing about Morey. The owners are on board. The franchise player is on board. Someone will ultimately pay up for the rights to Simmons. And you have to think the Sacramento Kings are the most likely franchise to do this, in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs"

How do the Kings make the POs, from their current position when you need to take away almost any win from now until Ben Simmons gets into shape to play and then the Kings are still 12-14 games below .500 and will make the POs. Not just the play in, the POs. Huh?

Also, does anyone believe the Kings are thinking, you know what, we better up our current offer to get Ben and make the POs when no one else is actually doing the same? Who is offering more than Barnes/picks?
The Blazers are out. The Wizards might still be in play, but Beal doesn't want a trade so they're out. Where are all these teams that will "pay up" come from? The Lakers don't have assets, the Mavs don't have assets, Clippers don't have assets.

Minnesota has the ability to put a decent offer, Spurs do, Kings do, Pelicans do. But none of them will be offering their top 1-2 players. Atlanta might want to pony up with Collins for some reason, but I don't know why they would want Simmons on that team and I don't see anyone else chasing that down.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#313 » by VDT » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:21 pm

realball wrote:
If Russell is a low level scorer, what does that make Simmons? Simmons never even scored over 17 ppg, why would be suddenly become a 20 ppg scorer on another team? Was he lacking touches on the Sixers or something?


Russell is a low level volume scorer in the sense that scoring is supposed to be one of his strengths as a player but his volume is not htat high and his efficiency low and he did it on bad teams that no one prepared for. That's not something that a good team needs, especially at that contract. His main perk as strength as a player is that he can make some plays and score some points. If he is not good enough to do it on a good team (a team that lets him do that will not be good) where does this leave him as a player? The answer is to play on bad teams and pad his stats.
Simmons, even with his ft issues, is a much more efficient scorer (58% vs 53 career wise) on a somewhat similar volume (15.9 vs 17.7) while playing on teams that didnt fit his style and having other players around him that needed touches. And he has played on good teams, not bottom feeders that no one gameplans for like Russell. If not for Embiid and on a team built around his strengths i dont have any doubt that he could move from a 16 ppg scorer to a 20 ppg scorer while keeping his efficiency.

realball wrote:You just keep saying "you put the right team around Simmons and he's a star". You could say that for Russell too. You put the right team around him and he will be an All-Star again. Russell hasn't had the luxury of playing with a top 5 player like Simmons has had. Be consistent with your arguments, stop putting pumping up Simmons by putting him in hypothetical scenarios and then trashing everyone else.


Built a team around what? An offense only guy with bad efficiency. Part of the reason Russell's teams were bad was that the ball was a lot of time in his hands. He is not good enough at what he is good at to do that on good teams. He either needs to play on bad teams (which will be bad partly because of him) and pad his stats or reinvent his game and role and become an off the bench scorer for a good team.
realball wrote:So what if other teams moved on from Russell? The Nets traded him so they could get Kyrie and Durant. The Warriors got Wiggins and Kuminga for him. If anything it should show you how much Russell is really worth.


Well, what does it tell you when every team moved him as soon as they wanted to become competitive. If he was a winning player they would try to keep him. And he had negative value even then, Wiggins was seen as a terrible contract at the time, yet the Warriors preferred him because he actually can have a role on a good team, even though overpaid.


realball wrote:I mean Simmons clearly has mental issues. It's not just him sitting out, it's him not being able to take a three and or make a free throw. Once again, just you being delusional.


Huh? He is a bad shooter, and doesnt take a lot of long range shots because he is not a low IQ chucker. Being a bad ft shooter is equated with having mental issues now? I am not sure who is the delusional here.

realball wrote: It's hilarious that you make assumptions like "Simmons value hasn't dropped" with zero reasoning. Why would a player who is a malcontent and a choker in the playoffs still be judged on his regular season play from a year ago? Do you NBA GMs have dementia or something? Why would a GM trade for Simmons knowing that he could pull this crap on them in the future?


As i said, GMs know what Simmons can and cant do, including his issues in the postseason. Whether he plays or not doesnt change that. What has changed is that teams are trying to get him for peanuts after his trade requests. These are two different things, SImmons' perceived on court value hasnt really changed, his trade value has currently changed due to the circumstancs and that's why the Sixers are currently refusing to make a trade.

realball wrote:Why would any team be "forced" to trade for Simmons when he barely improves his own team? Sixers were #1 in the East without him this season before Joel got injured, so why would anyone see Simmons as being their franchise's saviour? Use your brain man.


A team might be forced to rebuild, at which point they will try to get as much value for their star as they can. Simmons might be their best option at that point (either keeping him or redirecting him elsewhere) because established teams that will trade for a star typically dont have (or want trade) hihg level young talent or lottery picks.


realball wrote:Yeah the issue is me overrating future HOFer Damian Lillard and not you overrating two-time All-Star Simmons lol. Good one.

Who tf cares whether Lillard will be in the HOF or not? What teams care about is his future performance, and his combination of age, height and salary is not looking terribly good.


realball wrote:You think Sixers fans not complaining about their team is somehow proof that Morey is doing just fine? Your arguments are just getting lamer.


Lol, team's fans are generally the first ones to compalin about management moves, especially on these forums. They know the team better than random fans and they care about Sixers winning a title, unlike guys like you. If Sixers fans dont complain, chances are that what Morey is doing makes sense (whether it works or not).


realball wrote:Embiid being injury-prone is a fear that he might miss games, not that his abilities are suddenly going to decline. He is leading his team to a top 5 record in the East despite not having Simmons AND missing a bunch of games. Why would you just assume those picks are going to be valuable, especially if they are traded for another superstar like Lillard? You think the Blazers would rather trade for picks that MIGHT be valuable, or trade Lillard for picks that actually will be valuable?


Embiid missing games because of nagging injuries makes the Sixer's pick more attractive. Nagging injuries increase the possibility of a serious injury or a quicker decline as Embiid gets older. It's not a certainty but nothing is a certainty when talking about picks. Sixers future picks are rather valuable compared to other teams (exept for perpetually terrible teams like the Timberwolves) and this doesnt change if they trade for an old guy like Lillard.
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Re: [Woj] Teams have described Sixers asking price for Simmons' as growing... 

Post#314 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:52 pm

The Kings are going to be the team that panics, Fox will be moved to 3rd team.

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