How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds?

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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#61 » by 70sFan » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:54 pm

Roy The Natural wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:
Young Wilt was more similar to someone like David Robinson though. I don't buy that he's an unrepeatable athlete, and I truly think many players after him would have similar levels of dominance in the era he was in with the minutes and health he had.

So you want to prove that Wilt wasn't that special as an athlete and compare him to another top 10 GOAT athlete in NBA history? What's the logic behind that?


No. I want to say that he wasn't "unrepeatable"... He was still a special athlete. But this tall tale that he was "unrepeatable" isn't accurate IMO.

I mean, how many players of his size and athleticism have we seen from his retirement in the league?
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#62 » by GSWFan1994 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:57 pm

Do you remember those Chuck Norris jokes in the internet's dawn?

Well, they are made with Chuck in mind because Wilt didn't like the licensing fees.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#63 » by 70sFan » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:04 pm

Roy The Natural wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:People try to pass it off as "the competition was bad", but he was an Olympic level high jumper. Dude was probably in the 0.0001% of elite jumpers ever to play this sport.

So, think of it this way. Lebron went to the Olympics as a basketball player...Wilt went for other sports. He would have been able to go for multiple sports in this generation. That's insane.


One of the problems is that people try to pass off skinny Wilt as the same guy as later Wilt. Skinny Wilt could apparently bench press 1400 lbs, while also having a 70" vertical and running a 4.2 40 yd dash, with the post moves of Hakeem Olajuwon. It's absurd and hilariously overblown.

Wilt was a great athlete. Young Wilt was more like a David Robinson type athlete... then he gained a bunch of weight and was really strong but he wasn't still jumping out of the gym at that point and he was slower. People try to give Wilt everything all at once. You watch the film and it's simply not showing up. He can jump, and he's pretty fast... but he isn't an "unrepeatable" athlete at all.

The one thing that may be unrepeatable is health... but I don't consider that an athletic attribute.

Wilt was much bigger than Robinson. As a rookie he started his career at 260 lbs, which is more than Robinson ever weighed before the 1997 injury. In his famous 1962 season, Wilt played at 275 lbs and since then, he consistently was within 290-310 lbs range.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#64 » by hippesthippo » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:06 am

whitehops wrote:
hippesthippo wrote:Yup. When you make the adjustment, he's basically rebounding at Andre Drummond rate. Still really good, obv, but the stats are just different throughout the decades as different parts of the game were emphasized/changed.


him and bill russell were actually rebounding at a lower rate than drummond (and rodman).

both the pace and the minutes wilt played allowed him to get the crazy amount of rebounds he did, but his rebound percentage was around 20% whereas drummond's career rebound percentage is 24%. so he was obviously still in the elite category, but more on valanciunas/dwight's level (7th/8th in nba history) than drummond or rodman's level (1st/2nd).


Yeah, you're right. Pretty sure we both read the same article.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#65 » by Tim Kempton » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:11 am

There are a lot of valid points being made, but for every statistic used to explain away Wilt's dominance, I only find myself more impressed.

"Well, he played 48 minutes a game when it was played at a much faster pace." I understand the premise. More minutes, more shots = more rebounds. However, I find myself more impressed that a man as big as Wilt was able to play 47-48 MPG in a fast paced league during a time when training/medicine was a complete joke.

"His rebounding rate was the same as Rodman/Drummond." Fair. Now imagine if Rodman and Drummond were THE focal point of the offense, expending energy, and regularly putting up 40, 50, 60 points. Even if you want to adjust for era, imagine Rodman or Drummond regularly throwing up 30-35 PPG. People would be flipping their ****.

No matter how you dice it, regardless of all the arguments made to humanize Wilt, they still don't/can't fully explain what he did. With all due respect to David Robinson and other athletic anomalies, those comparisons are a joke.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#66 » by seanbig » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:26 am

How about he was like Russell Westbrook athleticism in a huge Shaq(skinny Shaq) body

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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#67 » by TheBobster » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:36 pm

Roy The Natural wrote:
slick_watts wrote:watch a game from the 60's. it's unrecognizable. wilt's physical gifts back then was like if someone 8 feet tall came to play in the nba right now.


Absolutely people are deluding themselves. Wilt is still great, and would be great in any era. But statistically he's massively inflated. It is what it is. It's like all the Jim Brown in football stuff. Yea, Jim Brown was great.. and he'd probably be great in any era. However, I don't think there's much of an argument that Derrick Henry wouldn't do what Jim Brown did if you stuck him in that era.


What your argument doesn't take into consideration is "would Derrick Henry be the same player if he grew up under the conditions Jim Brown grew up under in the 1950s." The answer is, probably not. But Jim Brown did, and Jim Brown was still Jim Brown. Brown was also a great college lacrosse player (he's in the Lacrosse Hall of Fame) and a great basketball player at Syracuse. He was just a gifted athlete.

You can make the same argument with Wilt and current players - would LeBron or Michael Jordan have been the same players growing up in the 1950's? With different coaching, youth league experience, diet, video study, sports medicine and travel? It's less likely. But some people are quick to dismiss Chamberlain because he sticks out in that era. And that's why Wilt is so great. Nobody did what he did back then, despite the lack of advancement in all those areas.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#68 » by whitehops » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:33 pm

hippesthippo wrote:
whitehops wrote:
hippesthippo wrote:Yup. When you make the adjustment, he's basically rebounding at Andre Drummond rate. Still really good, obv, but the stats are just different throughout the decades as different parts of the game were emphasized/changed.


him and bill russell were actually rebounding at a lower rate than drummond (and rodman).

both the pace and the minutes wilt played allowed him to get the crazy amount of rebounds he did, but his rebound percentage was around 20% whereas drummond's career rebound percentage is 24%. so he was obviously still in the elite category, but more on valanciunas/dwight's level (7th/8th in nba history) than drummond or rodman's level (1st/2nd).


Yeah, you're right. Pretty sure we both read the same article.


i didn't read an article, it was during one of these topics in the past and i wondered WHY rebound % wasn't available before 1971. this is bb-ref's formula:

TRB% - Total Rebound Percentage (available since the 1970-71 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * (TRB * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm TRB + Opp TRB)). Total rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.


the only value that wasn't tracked back then was opponent's rebounds but if you substitute the league average for rebounds i think you can get a pretty decent estimate.

honestly the more you dig into stats from back then the more it makes you realize that basketball was almost a completely different game back then. it's almost pointless trying to make any comparison's to today's teams or players. example: in 1960 when wilt put up 38/27 as a rookie, he shot .493 TS% when the league average was .463. wilt literally put up 32 FGA per game in his 46 MPG. in 1960 the celtics averaged 80.2 rebounds a game, which is 1.9x the amount of rebounds the sixers get per game today (42.1).
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#69 » by Antinomy » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:37 pm

Imagine playing pickup at the park, except there’s a 7-1 300 pound guy with an 8-foot wingspan.

The game looked worlds different than what you see today.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#70 » by rzzzzz » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:47 pm

Antinomy wrote:Imagine playing pickup at the park, except there’s a 7-1 300 pound guy with an 8-foot wingspan.

The game looked worlds different than what you see today.


Honestly, there were no loss of big men back then. But live, in the arena, Wilt just stuck out as a singularly spectacular specimen. And he would today. Superhero build. And the most athletic man on the court. Strength, speed and agility. He naturally slowed down some towards the end of his career, which is the image of Wilt most non-senior fans have of him, from his Laker footage, etc. But if you want to see the very epitome of the game, try to find any footage out there of his mid-60’s clashes with Russell.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#71 » by Antinomy » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:55 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Imagine playing pickup at the park, except there’s a 7-1 300 pound guy with an 8-foot wingspan.

The game looked worlds different than what you see today.


Honestly, there were no loss of big men back then. But live, in the arena, Wilt just stuck out as a singularly spectacular specimen. And he would today. Superhero build. And the most athletic man on the court. Strength, speed and agility. He naturally slowed down some towards the end of his career, which is the image of Wilt most non-senior fans have of him, from his Laker footage, etc. But if you want to see the very epitome of the game, try to find any footage out there of his mid-60’s clashes with Russell.


There was nobody in the league who matched Wilt’s size back then — not even Russell.

I posted a photo below of Russell & Wilt shaking hands at center court for their first game. Wilt towers over him.

They probably wouldn’t even have played the same position if they had entered the league 20 years later than they did.

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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#72 » by TheBobster » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:41 pm

Starting centers Wilt's rookie year (1959-60) -

BOS - Bill Russell, 6'10"
CIN - Wayne Embry, 6'8"
DET - Walter Dukes, 7'
MPL - Ray Felix, 6'11"
NYK - Charlie Tyra, 6'8"
PHW - Wilt Chamberlain, 7'1"
STL - Clyde Lovellette, 6'9"
SYR - John Kerr, 6'9"

Embry (5 All-Star Games) and Lovellette (4 All-Star Games) were wide-body, physical players. Russell (12 All-Star Games) was the only player who could come anywhere close to Wilt athletically. Dukes (2 All-Star Games) and Kerr (3 All-Star Games) were both solid starters. Felix (1 All-Star Game) and Tyra (0 All-Star Games) were journeymen at this point.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#73 » by 70sFan » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:13 pm

Antinomy wrote:
rzzzzz wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Imagine playing pickup at the park, except there’s a 7-1 300 pound guy with an 8-foot wingspan.

The game looked worlds different than what you see today.


Honestly, there were no loss of big men back then. But live, in the arena, Wilt just stuck out as a singularly spectacular specimen. And he would today. Superhero build. And the most athletic man on the court. Strength, speed and agility. He naturally slowed down some towards the end of his career, which is the image of Wilt most non-senior fans have of him, from his Laker footage, etc. But if you want to see the very epitome of the game, try to find any footage out there of his mid-60’s clashes with Russell.


There was nobody in the league who matched Wilt’s size back then — not even Russell.

I posted a photo below of Russell & Wilt shaking hands at center court for their first game. Wilt towers over him.

They probably wouldn’t even have played the same position if they had entered the league 20 years later than they did.

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How many 7'1 290 lbs centers do we have today? This criticism is pointless, because Wilt would be a giant in any era.

By the way, saying "not even Russell" is also pointless, because Russell wasn't big center back then. Russell was average center in terms of size, as he would be today - he was taller than DeAndre Jordan or Dwight Howard so he'd definitely play at center position 20 years later (or today).

It's like showing a photo of Shaq and Hakeem - "look at them, Hakeem shouldn't even play at the same position as Shaq"...
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#74 » by Snakebites » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:16 pm

1) He actually was a beast rebounder
2) He played more minutes than any star player would play. There was even a year he played OVER 48 MPG due to overtimes/
3) The pace was faster- more rebounds available.
4) Teams in general missed a higher percentage of their shots- also more rebounds available

When you factor in factors 2-4, he was a great rebounder, but I don't know for sure if he was the GOAT rebounder.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#75 » by Roger Murdock » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:19 pm

The pace and shot selection was out of control

So many possessions where some 6 foot guard will dribble right up to Wilt or Russell and attempt a ridiculous shot that had no chance
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#76 » by Antinomy » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:27 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:The pace and shot selection was out of control

So many possessions where some 6 foot guard will dribble right up to Wilt or Russell and attempt a ridiculous shot that had no chance


The amount of times I saw this happen was baffling. Maybe they actually did average 15 blocks a game back then lol.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#77 » by 70sFan » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:42 pm

Antinomy wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:The pace and shot selection was out of control

So many possessions where some 6 foot guard will dribble right up to Wilt or Russell and attempt a ridiculous shot that had no chance


The amount of times I saw this happen was baffling. Maybe they actually did average 15 blocks a game back then lol.

Show examples.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#78 » by ConSarnit » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:09 pm

2022 fg/game: 88

1961 fg/game: 109

2022 fg%: 45%

1961 fg%: 41%

Way more shots @ lower fg% = more rebounds

He was an elite rebounder but still didn’t rebound at an all time great rate (as others have posted).

It was just a different time when teams were dumber.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#79 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:50 pm

It wasn't just Wilt. Russell was ahead of Wilt per 36 minutes until they both crossed 30 years old. Other teams' top rebounders were within 15% or so of them.
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Re: How in the hell did Wilt get so many damn rebounds? 

Post#80 » by ty 4191 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:52 pm

ConSarnit wrote:He was an elite rebounder but still didn’t rebound at an all time great rate (as others have posted).


Finding Wilt Chamberlain’s Playoff TRB%.

*Many people here seem to prioritize TRB% (Total Rebound Percentage) when judging a players rebounding abilities and playoff statistics when judging great players, so I decided to find Wilt Chamberlain’s career playoff TRB%. His playoff TRB% was previously known only for his last 3 postseasons, at 21.1%.*

Vs Nationals (1960)
67/409 rebounds. 143/144 minutes.
TRB% = **16.49%**

Vs Celtics (1960)
165/856 rebounds. 273/288 minutes.
TRB% = **20.33**

Vs Nationals (1961)
69/385 rebounds. 144/144 minutes.
TRB% = **17.92%**

Vs Nationals (1962)
131/637 rebounds. 240/240 minutes.
TRB% = **20.56%**

Vs Celtics (1962)
188/947 rebounds. 336/336 minutes.
TRB% = **19.85%**

Vs Hawks (1964)
164/??? rebounds. 328/336 minutes.
**(INSUFFICIENT DATA)**

Vs Celtics (1964)
138/612 rebounds. 230/240 minutes.
TRB% = **23.52%**

Vs Royals (1965)
79/431 rebounds. ???/197 minutes.
**(INSUFFICIENT DATA)**

Vs Celtics (1965)
220/889 Rebounds. 341/341 minutes.
TRB% = **24.74%**

Vs Celtics (1966)
151/646 Rebounds. 242/245 minutes.
TRB% = **23.66%**

Vs Royals (1967)
106/458 rebounds. 192/192 minutes.
TRB% = **23.14%**

Vs Celtics (1967)
160/617 rebounds. 239/240 minutes.
TRB% = **26.04%**

Vs Warriors (1967)
171/860 rebounds. 287/293 minutes.
TRB% = **20.29%**

Vs Knicks (1968)
145/674 rebounds. 296/298 minutes.
TRB% = **21.66%**

Vs Celtics (1968)
176/830 rebounds. 335/336 minutes.
TRB% = **21.27%**

Vs Warriors (1969)
141/747 rebounds. 262/282 minutes.
TRB% = **20.75%**

Vs Hawks (1969)
128/562 rebounds. 239/240 minutes.
TRB% = **22.87%**

Vs Celtics (1969)
175/813 rebounds. 331/336 minutes.
TRB% = **21.85%**

Vs Suns (1970)
142/795 rebounds. 323/336 minutes.
TRB% = **18.58%**

Vs Hawks (1970)
88/448 rebounds. 195/197 minutes.
TRB% = **19.84%**

Vs Knicks (1970)
169/717 rebounds. 333/346 minutes.
TRB% = **24.49%**

Vs Bulls (1971)
148/667 rebounds. 332/336 minutes.
TRB% = **22.45%**

Vs Bucks (1971)
94/517 rebounds. 222/240 minutes.
TRB% = **19.65%**

Vs Bulls (1972)
83/402 rebounds. 192/192 minutes.
TRB% = **20.64%**

Vs Bucks (1972)
116/775 rebounds. 275/288 minutes.
TRB% = **15.67%**

Vs Knicks (1972)
116/515 rebounds. 236/245 minutes.
TRB% = **23.38%**

Vs Bulls (1973)
172/758 rebounds. 336/341 minutes.
TRB% = **23.02%**

Vs Warriors (1973)
118/552 rebounds. 225/240 minutes.
TRB% = **22.8%**

Vs Knicks (1973)
93/496 rebounds. 240/240 minute.
TRB% = **18.75%**

Total*(minus excluded series)*: 3,670/17,584 Rebounds

After removing the excluded series, Wilt played 7,039 minutes out of 7,196 total game minutes.

Final Formula:

100 x 3,670*(Player Rebounds)* x 7,196*(Team Minutes/5)* / 7,039*(Player Minutes)* x 17,584*(Total Rebounds)*

CAREER PLAYOFF TRB% = **21.3367%**

Despite averaging 47.2 minutes per playoff game, Wilt Chamberlain still has the 2nd highest career playoff TRB% in history.

Top 5 in History:

*Dwight Howard* - 21.51%

*Wilt Chamberlain* - 21.34%

*Dennis Rodman* - 20.5%

*Deandre Jordan* - 20.49%

*Moses Malone* - 19.41%

While the increase in Wilt’s TRB% efficiency was not enough to shift his position on the all-time standings *(Though Dwight can easily lose his #1 spot with one or two postseasons)*, this does help to validate the consistent rebounding prowess of the man who was only ever out-rebounded in one series of his career *(1965 vs Royals, by Jerry Lucas)*.

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