Robert Horry really was a GOAT-tier role player

[picc]

I know everyone recognizes he's been part of multiple championship teams so this isn't exactly news, but I've been watching old 00's/90's games recently and marveling at how he is basically the pinnacle of what you want from a non ball dominant player.

- Outstanding on defense. He was by FAR the best defensive player on the early 00's Lakers, playing elite man defense on scoring bigs and effortlessly switching onto perimeter players, while providing above average rim protection via timely and athletic contests

- Strong floor spacing and shooting. This is made even better by the fact he's a big, as guard 3&D role players are valuable, but being able to drag a big out as a role player bolsters your value even more. Mid 30s% from three, not great but enough to keep the defense honest and punish being left open. His 3PT% went up in the playoffs as well

- Strong touch passing. 3APG during some prime years, never stopping the ball and making the right reads finding cutters while on the perimeter or after cutting to the basket

- Clutch. Big Shot Bob didn't come from nowhere, you know his hits, it doesn't need to be reminded

- Likability. All of his teammates loved him and he never caused friction begging for more responsibility or trying to be a focal point, just did his job

Minus is not the strongest rebounder, but I guess everyone has flaws.

What are the things you ideally want from a role player who doesn't have the ball much? Defense, shooting, reactive passing, and willingness to accept a role, as well as stepping up to big moments. Horry encapsulated all of these. He was like a very poor man's Kevin Garnett out there.

I feel lucky for the Lakers to have had him during those early years, and enjoyed watching him bring all of his qualities to the Spurs as well. And of course he was perfect for playing off Hakeem as he dominated the paint.

[_qubik]

For sure Horry had incredibly valuable traits.

In my opinion the most important thing is a guy who knows his strenghts, who knows what he can or cant do. Good defense, smart passing and off ball scoring is the holy grail for me

[Reeko]

He should be recognized in some way.

[cupcakesnake]

I don't know about "GOAT-tier" but I agree that BS Bob was a very good player. The average fan will remember him (or look up his stats) and think he was a meh player that had some penchant for hitting clutch 3s. I think his Houston stats give a better picture of who he was in terms of his defensive versatility. He could guard multiple positions and was a clever help defender too. He blocked shots, got his hands in passing lanes, and was high-energy and competitive. He was a really good athlete. He wasn't an amazing shooter, but he was a strong catch & shoot player who didn't hesitate. He could pass a bit too.

I think you have to look at his Houston days to understand better what his basketball skills were. In LA they just needed so little offense from their role players around Shaq and Kobe. He was a perfect versatile role player to put next to Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan.

I think there are a lot of Robert Horry nowadays, now that the power forward position doesn't really exist anymore and forwards are expected to have a ton of versatility. But at the time his level of all-around skills were pretty rare.

[picc]

I don't know about "GOAT-tier" but I agree that BS Bob was a very good player. The average fan will remember him (or look up his stats) and think he was a meh player that had some penchant for hitting clutch 3s. I think his Houston stats give a better picture of who he was in terms of his defensive versatility. He could guard multiple positions and was a clever help defender too. He blocked shots, got his hands in passing lanes, and was high-energy and competitive. He was a really good athlete. He wasn't an amazing shooter, but he was a strong catch & shoot player who didn't hesitate. He could pass a bit too.

I think you have to look at his Houston days to understand better what his basketball skills were. In LA they just needed so little offense from their role players around Shaq and Kobe. He was a perfect versatile role player to put next to Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan.

I think there are a lot of Robert Horry nowadays, now that the power forward position doesn't really exist anymore and forwards are expected to have a ton of versatility. But at the time his level of all-around skills were pretty rare.

This is a good point, in that the stretch-big aspect of the game has become ubiquitous. In the 90s/00s, having a shooter at the 4 or 5 was a huge deal. These days, pretty much every team has that in the form of new-age big men or just small forwards they bump up a position. Floor spacing has really come a long way.

He was indeed perfect for fitting around back to the basket bigs as he took away nothing from their game and covered for any potential weaknesses. I'd be curious as to who you have as GOAT-tier role players if Bob Horry isn't one of them though. I can't see it getting that much better than what he had to offer.

[GeorgeMarcus]

And some people think he just stumbled into 7 rings... There's a reason Bob was consistently sought out by contenders. Reminiscent of Danny Green in that sense, but a 3/4 instead of a 2/3

[sp6r=underrated]

And some people think he just stumbled into 7 rings... There's a reason Bob was consistently sought out by contenders. Reminiscent of Danny Green in that sense, but a 3/4 instead of a 2/3

Very nice comparison. Danny Green is a monster role player for this generation. Still amazed Toronto managed to get him too in that trade years ago.

[KrAzY3]

If there was a Hall of Fame for role players he would belong in the first class.

[homecourtloss]

His impact metrics, i.e., RAPM, RPM also bear this out. He was adding to winning margins wherever he went.

[picc]

And some people think he just stumbled into 7 rings... There's a reason Bob was consistently sought out by contenders. Reminiscent of Danny Green in that sense, but a 3/4 instead of a 2/3

Danny Green was one of those guys in his prime who just seemed to do everything right. Has to be a product of spending so much time in the Spurs culture.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

I loved sleek athletic Horry on the Rockets. His ability to slide up to PF (along with Mario Elie stepping in to provide impact 3/D at SF) in the 1995 playoffs really unlocked Houston's offense which was crucial because their gauntlet to the title went through 4 of the top 5 offenses in the NBA that season. And the Rockets were able to outpunch those offensive juggernauts as their ORTG jumped from 109.7 in the RS to an elite 115.2 over their 22 PS games. Yes, having Clyde Drexler for the playoff run was obviously a massive boost but I'd argue the 4-out offense made possible by having Elie and Horry at F (who combined to shoot over 41% on high volume from 3) worked to open up the floor for Drexler's slashing/post game

[MARK_POPE]

Another player I'll contribute to the discussion who doesn't get talked about a ton is Shane Battier's role in winning

[cupcakesnake]

I don't know about "GOAT-tier" but I agree that BS Bob was a very good player. The average fan will remember him (or look up his stats) and think he was a meh player that had some penchant for hitting clutch 3s. I think his Houston stats give a better picture of who he was in terms of his defensive versatility. He could guard multiple positions and was a clever help defender too. He blocked shots, got his hands in passing lanes, and was high-energy and competitive. He was a really good athlete. He wasn't an amazing shooter, but he was a strong catch & shoot player who didn't hesitate. He could pass a bit too.

I think you have to look at his Houston days to understand better what his basketball skills were. In LA they just needed so little offense from their role players around Shaq and Kobe. He was a perfect versatile role player to put next to Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan.

I think there are a lot of Robert Horry nowadays, now that the power forward position doesn't really exist anymore and forwards are expected to have a ton of versatility. But at the time his level of all-around skills were pretty rare.

This is a good point, in that the stretch-big aspect of the game has become ubiquitous. In the 90s/00s, having a shooter at the 4 or 5 was a huge deal. These days, pretty much every team has that in the form of new-age big men or just small forwards they bump up a position. Floor spacing has really come a long way.

He was indeed perfect for fitting around back to the basket bigs as he took away nothing from their game and covered for any potential weaknesses. I'd be curious as to who you have as GOAT-tier role players if Bob Horry isn't one of them though. I can't see it getting that much better than what he had to offer.

I can vaguely remember Big Shot Bob getting criticism from some announcers for being giving up too much size and strength at the power forward position. Times have changed lol.

Tough to answer your question, since not everyone will agree on what a role player is or where to draw the line.
- Boris Diaw is always the first guy that comes to mind for me. He could defend 4 positions, post up mismatches, and was one of the best passers ever.
- Joe Ingles could guard elite wings, was one of the better shooters in the league, and also gave his team extra creation with his passing.
- Shane Battier. One of the best wing defenders ever who could also fill in the blanks as a shooter and clever cutter.
- Doug Christie.
- Andre Iguodala. Maybe you disqualify him since he was sort of a star early on in Phili? Same goes for Lamar Odom, Clifford Robinson.
- Then there's excellent defensive bigs who were never stars: Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bogut, PJ Brown.
- going more old school: Danny Ainge, Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper.

Robert Horry had good fortune to play on 3 different multiple championship teams with 4 different top 10 players. But I don't think he's objectively a better basketball player than most of the guys I just listed.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Another player I'll contribute to the discussion who doesn't get talked about a ton is Shane Battier's role in winning

He's loved by the analytics community but yeah he didn't get nearly enough credit from the general public

[moderndarwin]

He’s the best role player ever.

And I don’t think it’s particularly close. His ability to be clutch, be a perimeter threat big man to pair with an interior big, etc is unrivaled. I can’t think of one player from the last 30 years i’d rather have at the 4 spot to surround a top flight post presence:

Off top of head he would pair amazingly with any of these:

Shaq
Ewing
Yao
Embiid
Giannis
Duncan
Drob
Nikola
Hakeem

[picc]

I don't know about "GOAT-tier" but I agree that BS Bob was a very good player. The average fan will remember him (or look up his stats) and think he was a meh player that had some penchant for hitting clutch 3s. I think his Houston stats give a better picture of who he was in terms of his defensive versatility. He could guard multiple positions and was a clever help defender too. He blocked shots, got his hands in passing lanes, and was high-energy and competitive. He was a really good athlete. He wasn't an amazing shooter, but he was a strong catch & shoot player who didn't hesitate. He could pass a bit too.

I think you have to look at his Houston days to understand better what his basketball skills were. In LA they just needed so little offense from their role players around Shaq and Kobe. He was a perfect versatile role player to put next to Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan.

I think there are a lot of Robert Horry nowadays, now that the power forward position doesn't really exist anymore and forwards are expected to have a ton of versatility. But at the time his level of all-around skills were pretty rare.

This is a good point, in that the stretch-big aspect of the game has become ubiquitous. In the 90s/00s, having a shooter at the 4 or 5 was a huge deal. These days, pretty much every team has that in the form of new-age big men or just small forwards they bump up a position. Floor spacing has really come a long way.

He was indeed perfect for fitting around back to the basket bigs as he took away nothing from their game and covered for any potential weaknesses. I'd be curious as to who you have as GOAT-tier role players if Bob Horry isn't one of them though. I can't see it getting that much better than what he had to offer.

I can vaguely remember Big Shot Bob getting criticism from some announcers for being giving up too much size and strength at the power forward position. Times have changed lol.

Tough to answer your question, since not everyone will agree on what a role player is or where to draw the line.
- Boris Diaw is always the first guy that comes to mind for me. He could defend 4 positions, post up mismatches, and was one of the best passers ever.
- Joe Ingles could guard elite wings, was one of the better shooters in the league, and also gave his team extra creation with his passing.
- Shane Battier. One of the best wing defenders ever who could also fill in the blanks as a shooter and clever cutter.
- Doug Christie.
- Andre Iguodala. Maybe you disqualify him since he was sort of a star early on in Phili? Same goes for Lamar Odom, Clifford Robinson.
- Then there's excellent defensive bigs who were never stars: Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bogut, PJ Brown.
- going more old school: Danny Ainge, Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper.

Robert Horry had good fortune to play on 3 different multiple championship teams with 4 different top 10 players. But I don't think he's objectively a better basketball player than most of the guys I just listed.

Diaw, Ingles, and Iguodala, I don't see as role players at all. All of them had primary offensive duties on their teams.

Diaw was the Suns second option when Stoudemire went out, and a primary creator for the Spurs.

Ingles was a primary ballhandler and creator for Utah.

Iggy in Philly/Denver/Early GS ditto. Later on as he got older he did become a role player, but substantially better than Horry at his peak? I don't agree at all.

The bigs you mentioned are a matter of discretion, but I don't see any of them being clearly more valuable than Horry was, if at all.

When I say role player, I'm talking about players who don't really make decisions for the team on offense and are more off the ball glue guys. Maybe we just have different definitions. If a team consistently runs their offense through a player, I don't really see how they are a role player.

[macNcheese3]

He was a GOAT-tier clutch shot maker.

[SNPA]

Stupid thread.

-Kings fans.

[dk1115]

I think he was too.

He's one of the "tweeners" that no one really criticized at the time, which on one hand meant he wasn't in the light, but he was definitely a great role player.

[makubesu]

I’m not the biggest fan of “best role player” awards. What’s the phrase, “****ing with faint praise”? Nobody is going to call Iguodala that because he was actually good enough to be a star at some point. His reward for his play (and team jumping) is the rings on his hands, I don’t think any more has to be said.