2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[Tor_Raps]

We're down to the home stretch so I thought it was a good time to post the 6th and final Rookie thread.

Instead of picking your 3 faves, let's see who we think is standing atop and will win Rookie of the Year. I do apologize if your guy was left out of the poll. There can only be 10 options and there are more good rooks than that.

Anyway, as with the previous threads, let's keep our discussion polite and reasonable please. Enjoy!

(continued from part 5 here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2158341&p=97328946#p97328946 )

Apologies for the awkward merge of these 2 threads. Misread the time stamps. Quoted OP above^
-js21

I realize that Mobley is currently the favourite to win the ROY race and rightfully so. However, I was curious how people would feel if the Cavs continue to falter down the standings and maybe don't even make the playoffs after losing a potential play-in.

Mobley has received a lot of credit for turning around the Cavs defense while I believe Allen has been just as important to this turn around. These attributes don't look nearly as good when the team success isn't there to back it up.

Personally, Cavs already got the benefit of having 2 allstars because of their record. I rightfully believe that if their record continues to worsen, they would lose that same benefit for Mobley in the ROY race.

So in this situation, who would be your ROY?

[Triple M]

Aren't the votes in b4 the play in???

[Jurassic_Park]

Very interesting and thought about this myself. Really considering putting a wager on Barnes at 11 to 1 (bet365). If Raps pass cle in the standings i can see Barnes stealing it. Cle has a really tough schedule too.

[JonFromVA]

The Cavs need a moment to right their ship, but this should really be about how Evan and the other rooks close out the season. If Evan still ranks highly in some of the league wide defensive stats, that's a far more significant accomplishment than just ranking high .vs. the other rooks. IMO.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I think regardless of what the Cavs do this award is still Mobley's to lose based on his individual play. And his defense has been absurd.

[Hungry]

I'm not a huge fan of binary topic questions such as this, or "what does it do to player X's legacy if they win/don't win a championship this year". Context matters, if the Cavs struggle down the stretch but Mobley continues to play well and be a big impact defensively while on the floor why does it matter? He himself could struggle, but the team could play well. There's also the large factor of how other rookies play relative to him. This is my long winded way of saying there's a lot more that goes into this then simply Cavs good or Cavs bad

[TheLand13]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

[Dutchball97]

Even if they didn't win another game Mobley would still be ROY.

[Tor_Raps]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

Then why is he such a favourite to win ROY when some others have identical stats as him? The whole narrative about Mobley has been how his defensive impact has led to the Cavs success.

If the Cavs have a losing record, everything surrounding Mobley changes where people would be complaining that he's not assertive enough offensively to help the Cavs.

[Tor_Raps]

Aren't the votes in b4 the play in???

The votes happen at the end of the regular season so I'm not sure if that's before or after the play-in since the play-in technically isn't considered playoffs either.

Regardless, if the Cavs stumble remaining of the way to a 9th seed or so, my point would stand. Especially if the Raptors end up as the higher seed.

[TheLand13]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

Then why is he such a favourite to win ROY when some others have identical stats as him? The whole narrative about Mobley has been how his defensive impact has led to the Cavs success.

If the Cavs have a losing record, everything surrounding Mobley changes where people would be complaining that he's not assertive enough offensively to help the Cavs.

No one cares about what Cleveland's record is when discussing Mobley's defense. We only base it on what we see from him on the floor, and on the floor he is in fact playing excellent defense. But that was never the main reason for Cleveland's success this season. It's been a contributing factor, sure, but not the main reason. Garland and Allen are. Most people who rave that Mobley is the ROY favorite know this.

[Tor_Raps]

Very interesting and thought about this myself. Really considering putting a wager on Barnes at 11 to 1 (bet365). If Raps pass cle in the standings i can see Barnes stealing it. Cle has a really tough schedule too.

I bet about 10 bucks before I created this thread solely on this premise lol.

Again, it's still a long shot since the Cavs would have to fall apart while Barnes/Raptors would need to finish strong but it's definitely more likely than the odds suggest. Their stats are almost identical.

[KembaWalker]

I don't even think he's very good but Cade has been outplaying Mobley easily for a while

[Jadoogar]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

His impact on the defense (and thus wins) was definitely the reason he was the favourite. His stats aren't much better than Barnes or Cade. If Cleveland's defense continues to go south, Mobley should get some of the blame (just like he got the credit)

[Tor_Raps]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

Then why is he such a favourite to win ROY when some others have identical stats as him? The whole narrative about Mobley has been how his defensive impact has led to the Cavs success.

If the Cavs have a losing record, everything surrounding Mobley changes where people would be complaining that he's not assertive enough offensively to help the Cavs.

No one cares about what Cleveland's record is when discussing Mobley's defense. We only base it on what we see from him on the floor, and on the floor he is in fact playing excellent defense. But that was never the main reason for Cleveland's success this season. It's been a contributing factor, sure, but not the main reason. Garland and Allen are. Most people who rave that Mobley is the ROY favorite know this.

Understood as that's where things stand right now. My point was that the narrative could change if the Cavs continue to stumble and Mobley is not impactful enough offensively to help the Cavs through it.

I'm looking at Barnes who has near identical stats as him and could play a greater role to help his team finish strong. This narrative is a stronger possibility than the current 11/1 odds suggest. That's all my point really was.

[TheLand13]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

His impact on the defense (and thus wins) was definitely the reason he was the favourite. His stats aren't much better than Barnes or Cade. If Cleveland's defense continues to go south, Mobley should get some of the blame (just like he got the credit)

My point is... no one would have cared about the wins regardless. No one makes their argument for Mobley by saying "He plays excellent defense, and Cleveland is winning games as a result". It all still comes down to what he's able to bring to the table on an individual level, and in that regard, he's still a clear favorite to win, regardless of what Cleveland's record is.

[LoveMyRaps]

The ROTY race is close and will come down to the wire.

[Tor_Raps]

Cleveland's record isn't why Mobley is the huge favorite to win ROY...

His impact on the defense (and thus wins) was definitely the reason he was the favourite. His stats aren't much better than Barnes or Cade. If Cleveland's defense continues to go south, Mobley should get some of the blame (just like he got the credit)

My point is... no one would have cared about the wins regardless. No one makes their argument for Mobley by saying "He plays excellent defense, and Cleveland is winning games as a result". It all still comes down to what he's able to bring to the table on an individual level, and in that regard, he's still a clear favorite to win, regardless of what Cleveland's record is.

Totally disagree man. You may have not been clued in on all the exact opposite statements being made.

"He plays excellent defense and the Cavs are winning games because of his impact on that end" has been a common theme almost the entire season. That is the only reason why the ROY race has been considered closed to many for months even though his statstics arent blowing away the competition.

Again, he is rightfully the ROY leader right now for your comments on his defense to date. I just feel you can make similar comments about Barnes IF the he and the Raptors finish the season strong.

[TheLand13]

His impact on the defense (and thus wins) was definitely the reason he was the favourite. His stats aren't much better than Barnes or Cade. If Cleveland's defense continues to go south, Mobley should get some of the blame (just like he got the credit)

My point is... no one would have cared about the wins regardless. No one makes their argument for Mobley by saying "He plays excellent defense, and Cleveland is winning games as a result". It all still comes down to what he's able to bring to the table on an individual level, and in that regard, he's still a clear favorite to win, regardless of what Cleveland's record is.

Totally disagree man. You may have not been clued in on all the exact opposite statements being made.

"He plays excellent defense and the Cavs are winning games because of his impact on that end" has been a common theme almost the entire season. That is the only reason why the ROY race has been considered closed to many for months even though his statstics arent blowing away the competition.

Again, he is rightfully the ROY leader right now for your comments on his defense to date. I just feel you can make similar comments about Barnes IF the he and the Raptors finish the season strong.

I've been following the rookie threads throughout the season. Barely anyone ever brings up the Cavaliers record as a reason to give Mobley the award. Hell, most of the people active in the thread called bs on someone who tried claiming the award is based on team record. That's simply not the case, it never has been.

[Jadoogar]

My point is... no one would have cared about the wins regardless. No one makes their argument for Mobley by saying "He plays excellent defense, and Cleveland is winning games as a result". It all still comes down to what he's able to bring to the table on an individual level, and in that regard, he's still a clear favorite to win, regardless of what Cleveland's record is.

Totally disagree man. You may have not been clued in on all the exact opposite statements being made.

"He plays excellent defense and the Cavs are winning games because of his impact on that end" has been a common theme almost the entire season. That is the only reason why the ROY race has been considered closed to many for months even though his statistics arent blowing away the competition.

Again, he is rightfully the ROY leader right now for your comments on his defense to date. I just feel you can make similar comments about Barnes IF the he and the Raptors finish the season strong.

I've been following the rookie threads throughout the season. Barely anyone ever brings up the Cavaliers record as a reason to give Mobley the award. Hell, most of the people active in the thread called bs on someone who tried claiming the award is based on team record. That's simply not the case, it never has been.

Everyone brings up his fantastic defense and his versatility that allows Cleveland to play 3 bigs (all of this is still true).
It's generally not based on team record because most top rookies are on terrible teams. This year two of the best rookies on playoff teams so team record could definitely be a tie breaker.