Page 1 of 3
Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:58 pm
by Cubbies2120
What do you consider more valuable?
I would imagine it's a steal, since that directly results in possession gained for your team, whereas a block can end up in an out of bounds / offense retains possession via rebound.
However, good shotblockers can also be deterrants to drivers, but players who get a lot of steals can act as deterrants to cross court passes.
Thoughts?
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:05 pm
by Dutchball97
Depends on if the block ends in possession for your team or not. With a steal you always get possession but it can be in early stages of an opposing teams offensive possession that maybe wouldn't lead to much otherwise, while a block directly stops the other team from scoring in most cases.
So probably steals if we're talking about random players but blocks if it is a player well versed in blocking shots towards his own teammates.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:06 pm
by Richard4444
Stealing is wrong. I choose blocks...
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:07 pm
by Apz
Blocks is more a skill. Steals other team need to f up. Also getting many steals make u wonder why. How many points do the guy let up to chase steals?. Defensive stats is iffy at best
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:04 pm
by cupcakesnake
If you're reducing each stat to its concept, a steal is more valuable. It takes away a possession from the other team and immediately grants an extra possession to the team that does the stealing.
That doesn't mean the player recording the steal is more valuable than the shot blocker. Steals are often the result of chaos (self-inflicted or the result of good team defense), with the ball popping into the hands of someone nearby. Sometimes bad defenders who constantly expose the defense with gambling get a lot of steals. Those steals are bad in the big picture because they come at the cost of countless poor defensive possessions.
The value of a block at the rim is that it erased a very high efficiency, high point per possession shot at the basket. Blocks at the 3-point line usually turn into steals. Blocks don't reset the shot clock so they have massive impact on a defensive possession, even if you send it out of bounds or back to the offensive team.
Like a lot of stats, the statistical recording doesn't tell you the whole of what happened on the possession. So I don't know how helpful it is to decide whether steals or blocks are more valuable.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:18 pm
by Wigginstime
The value of a block is how it can impact the opposing teams future shots. Lots of players will either stop driving or drastically adjust their shot into a harder lower percent shot to avoid getting blocked a 2nd time.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:25 pm
by scrabbarista
Great answer from jamaalstar. Demonstrates a small part of basketball's beauty and complexity, in that there is so much more going on when you watch than what is actually recorded statistically.
The answer to which is more valuable is, "It depends on context." A steal is more valuable in the abstract, but no steal (or block, or anything, I guess) ever happened in the abstract.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:28 pm
by Jadoogar
Yes blocks have implicit value (rim protection, hypes up the crowd, etc) but steals clearly have more immediate value. Your team gains the possession (doesn't always happen with blocks) and generally leads to transition opportunities which is the most efficient way to score.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:29 pm
by UcanUwill
Shotblockers impact game far more, its more than just getting a block. Ball stealers, pick pockets or passing lane lurkers, impact opponent offense, but not to the same degree. In Euroleague, we have a guy who averages 2.8 steals this year, but he will not be DPOY.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:30 pm
by KyRo23
If it's a simple question comparing 1 to 1, steals will result in a possession for your team 100%. A block can go either way.
It's not that simple however as someone else has already stated, a block may change the mindset of the other teams shot attempts in the paint. In the grand scheme of basketball, I believe blocks are more important.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:32 pm
by IceColdCubano
Soon we will have block and steal ratings, where the stats will show a numerical efficiency of each of those if they led to score at the other end and or created a positive/negative net outcome.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:33 pm
by MARK_POPE
In terms of direct value, it's a steal especially when you factor into them leading to easy buckets in transition due to the defense not being able to get back in time to stop an easy layup/dunk or 3 in transition.
Shot blocking, as others said, are valuable for rim protection but also how demoralizing a block can be for a team's offensive morale- if you get to the rim a few times in a game and get stuffed you're going to re-consider driving/getting the rim and will defer to more difficult shots away from the basket.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:33 pm
by cupcakesnake
Wigginstime wrote:The value of a block is how it can impact the opposing teams future shots. Lots of players will either stop driving or drastically adjust their shot into a harder lower percent shot to avoid getting blocked a 2nd time.
This is the Bill Russell mantra and its definitely true. I think the numbers usually show that elite feared shot blockers generally see their blocks per game go down (they get challenged less) without any drop off in team defense. In theory, the best defender would never get a block because no one ever attempts a layup against them!
To some degree this can happen with a really strong on-ball thief as well. You can see guys a little more tentative to dribble around Kawhi for example after the Ben McLemore incident and generally once you realize a guy has length, strong hands, you go into ball protection mode.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:35 pm
by dhsilv2
A steal is worth more than a block. A great shot blocker is a more valuable defender all else equal than a guy who gets a lot of steals.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:36 pm
by HoopsterJones
jamaalstar21 wrote:If you're reducing each stat to its concept, a steal is more valuable. It takes away a possession from the other team and immediately grants an extra possession to the team that does the stealing.
That doesn't mean the player recording the steal is more valuable than the shot blocker. Steals are often the result of chaos (self-inflicted or the result of good team defense), with the ball popping into the hands of someone nearby. Sometimes bad defenders who constantly expose the defense with gambling get a lot of steals. Those steals are bad in the big picture because they come at the cost of countless poor defensive possessions.
The value of a block at the rim is that it erased a very high efficiency, high point per possession shot at the basket. Blocks at the 3-point line usually turn into steals. Blocks don't reset the shot clock so they have massive impact on a defensive possession, even if you send it out of bounds or back to the offensive team.
Like a lot of stats, the statistical recording doesn't tell you the whole of what happened on the possession. So I don't know how helpful it is to decide whether steals or blocks are more valuable.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:41 pm
by iqureshi
think with a steal you are taking away the opportunity for a bucket, so assume the team shoots about 45 percent form the field, there was a 45 percent chance the steal stopped a bucket. Especially inside blocks which have a higher scoring percentage say 60-80%, the block did more to limit a scoring opportunity.
Plus tightening up your passing and dribbling resulting from a steal might encourage future efficiency after getting yelled at by the coach, leading to fewer turnovers and higher scoring output later in the game. Getting blocked a few times (thinking more inside defender blocks, not blocks from the perimeter) stops people from going to the bucket leading to more lower percentage perimeter shots.
I"m team block here.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:01 pm
by SpreeS
The greatest all time defenders are the best shot blockers, they impacted opp offences way more than the best perimeter defenders with huge amount of steals.
Also blocks or steals aren’t indicator of good defensive. For example Gasol/Whiteside or Iverson/Dumars
I would give huge advance to block
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:03 pm
by SF_Warriors
iqureshi wrote:think with a steal you are taking away the opportunity for a bucket, so assume the team shoots about 45 percent form the field, there was a 45 percent chance the steal stopped a bucket. Especially inside blocks which have a higher scoring percentage say 60-80%, the block did more to limit a scoring opportunity.
Plus tightening up your passing and dribbling resulting from a steal might encourage future efficiency after getting yelled at by the coach, leading to fewer turnovers and higher scoring output later in the game. Getting blocked a few times (thinking more inside defender blocks, not blocks from the perimeter) stops people from going to the bucket leading to more lower percentage perimeter shots.
I"m team block here.
I was thinking something along the lines of your post as well. A blocked dunk or layup at the rim can be better than a lot of steal scenarios.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:12 pm
by HomoSapien
Cubbies2120 wrote:What do you consider more valuable?
I would imagine it's a steal, since that directly results in possession gained for your team, whereas a block can end up in an out of bounds / offense retains possession via rebound.
However, good shotblockers can also be deterrants to drivers, but players who get a lot of steals can act as deterrants to cross court passes.
Thoughts?
Bill Russell used to frequently talk about how modern players don't understand how to block shots. Today's players block into the stands, but when he played he'd block it to a teammate to start a fast break. For that reason, I think steals tend to be more valuable in a single play, although a great shot blocker probably has bigger mental impact on the game as players start to change the shots/shy away from driving to the hoop, etc.
Re: Steals vs. Blocks
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:15 pm
by somerandomdude
Steals are a guaranteed possession.