Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New York Knicks

[ElectricMayhem]

Tonight, the Atlanta Hawks beat three teams in one fell swoop. They decimated Cleveland on the court and also beat the Washington Wizards' and New York Knicks' playoff hopes to a bloody pulp. Once the season ends, the Knickerbockers will be bocking knicks no more. We shall now cut them open and see what's inside...

Here is the data from last year's Post-Mortems:
Post-Mortem Results I: GM Confidence Meter
Post-Mortem Results II: Coaching Confidence Meter
Post-Mortem Results III: Performance Compared to Expectations
Post-Mortem Results IV: Rising/Treadmill/Waning

Team Name: New York Knicks
Record at Time of Death: 34-43 (.442)
GM: Scott Perry (2017- )
Coach: Tom Thibodeau (2020- )

Offensive Rating: 23rd
Defensive Rating: 14th
Rebound %: 5th
Turnover %: 12th

GM: Change or keep?
Coach: Change or keep?
Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
Rising, falling, or treadmill?
If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?

Notes:
Players under contract next year:
Julius Randle ($24m)
Evan Fournier ($19m)
Derrick Rose ($15m)
RJ Barrett ($11m)
Alec Burks ($10m)
Nerlens Noel ($9m)
Kemba Walker ($9m)
Cam Reddish ($6m)
Obi Toppin ($5m)
Taj Gibson ($5m) (Partially Guaranteed)
Immanuel Quickley ($2m)
Quentin Grimes ($2m)
Miles McBride ($2m(

Team Options:

Player Options:

Free Agents:
Mitchell Robinson
Ryan Arcidiacono
Feron Hunt
Jericho Sims

Dead Money:

Previous Post-Mortems:
30. Orlando Magic
29. Detroit Pistons
28. Houston Rockets
27. Indiana Pacers
26. Oklahoma City Thunder
25. Washington Wizards
24. New York Knicks

[Vampirate]

Fire everyone.

This team is going nowhere and RJ is the only shining light for the franchise.

They need to be stockpiling high draft picks, not going after the playin which they'd get slaughtered in anyways.

Foolishness like usual.

[knicksNOTslick]

What the fans want and what the front office is going to do will be very different. So there's no point in wishing for competency in the front office.

The Knicks blew so many big leads and lost a lot of close games and the main reason for that is the lack of a PG to manage the game and secondly, the lack of a true #1 option, a legit closer if you will. Maybe we needed DRose healthy but he's aging so you can't truly count on him like Thibs does. However, this management believes the team is so close to contending especially after placing 4th last year. The fact that they stayed pat during the trade deadline spoke volumes. This organization is content with what Thibs is doing. But we know the reality is the Knicks need a legit star but most importantly, not Burks at PG.

Also, these vets who have no future with the team take up so many minutes. There should be close to a full youth movement while the Knicks are waiting for a legit star to pair with RJ. I don't mind some veterans with the young squad but when they play most of the minutes because Thibs can't adjust, it's a problem.

[Phish Tank]

Just to clarify one thing: Scott Perry's technically the GM, but is basically doing office work in the front office. Leon's really calling most, if not all, the shots. I'll answer below:

GM: Change or keep?

You probably want to keep the crew for next season. Give them the full 3rd year to truly evaluate things. They probably gotta talk at some point (probably not ), but this is a bit of a wake up call for a front office that there's clearly a ways to go to get back to a respectable level.

Sooner than later, the team's got to make a choice on a direction. A lot of the moves have been very safe, very conservative. Are they willing to swing the fences? We shall see.

Coach: Change or keep?

I say change, but they'll probably keep because firing him now puts the front office on the hot seat. Thibs was the cause for a lot of issues this season -> not limited to poor rotations, destroying Burks, not holding Randle accounatable, injuring RJ's ankle, blown leads, missed FTs, etc etc. Coaching cost us a ton of games.

The only way I want to keep him is if we get a legit offensive coordinator. However, there are gaps in the coaching staff that need to be addressed. More importantly, Thibs needs a vet assistant coach to keep it real with his vets, including Randle. I wonder if he missed that this season with Woodson gone and Kenny Payne now gone.

Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?

Hard to say. I know people had us regressing. I'd say it was disappointing, but not an abject failure.

Rising, falling, or treadmill?

TBD

If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?

1) Fire Thibs (not happening)
2) Try to trade Randle
3) Pay RJ Barrett
4) Trade one of Evan or RJ in an asset consolidation type of deal.
5) In addition to 4), consider shopping Nerlens & Rose.

[Ursusamericanus]

FIRE THE OWNER

...and trade Randle.

[Adelheid]

fire the coach first agenda

the front office isnt blame-free with the craptastic offseason -- this is one of the worst i've seen yet in my lifetime

[GeorgeMarcus]

I have less exposure than Knicks fans but I don't get why firing Thibs would be a priority. From the outside looking in he overachieved big time with his roster last year and roughly as expected this year when the EC competition got a lot stiffer. Has he not earned himself another year at least?

[Capn'O]

Q1: I voted to keep. This is more a lament that it's pretty difficult to build a proper team under Dolan than it is an endorsement of the front office. More on this later.

Q2: Dump the coach. This is where I get romantic and bring in a development coach. I wouldn't allow myself to dream like this but Thibs propensity to pull young players when they're leading a comeback has pushed me to the edge. Then there's his infuriating loyalty to Randle, even when his play was obviously destructive. Logically, the Knicks are probably still winning more than they should and that might not be the best thing. But it is a Thibs thing and... when he does let his developing players play they play hard.

Q3: After vastly overachieving last year, this team picked up more talent... and bombed. Rose got hurt early. Randle reverted to the 19-20 season version. Noel was nonexistent. Burks... played point guard for some reason. The other acquisitions... just didn't quite move the needle. The Knicks tooled up and fell down. That said, we'll likely finish with a better record than the Lakers. Go figure...

Q4: Here's where things get weird... They have an up and coming team behind the treadmill team. For all my kvetching about the team, underneath it all they have the best group of young talent I've ever seen for the franchise. After a long run of very little it's something. After a tough start, RJ has legit broken out as a borderline star. Quickley started strong, slumped, and then finished very strong. Mitch is solid. Obi, Grimes, McBride, and Sims all showed good promise as role players. Particularly Grimes, who has a sweet shot and plays hard defense. Very good wing for today's game. Rokas Jokubaitus is an intriguing prospect overseas. And, of course, Reddish teased the **** out of us before going down for the year. And we have three first rounders in the next two years.

The issue is, there's treadmill dead weight in front of all but RJ and Mitch and Mitch might leave. A team with a smart owner might let the front office cut some of the dead weight so the rebuild can shine through and some real trade assets might develop. It's just hard to see a Dolan owned team going that route. We haven't resigned a draft pick since the 90s and may continue that trend by letting Mitch walk. Then doubling down on veteran talent that cements the treadmill while the rising team grows up on another franchise.

Such is life as a Knicks fan. I'd love to see them do the right thing but even when they occasionally get it right it never lasts long.

I'd

1. re-sign Mitch up to 20 mil over 2 years. Less on a longer deal.
2. Give RJ a max extension
3. Look to move some of our heavier contracts to make room for the younger guys. Westbrook has been mentioned but Wall might actually be willing to take a step back and be a constructive part of a rebuild. Maybe a three team deal where Houston gets some draft compensation and Westbrook.
4. On that note, Randle goes.
5. Fire Thibs. Hire a coach for development. Maybe Atkinson.
6. Otherwise stay the course and let the chips fall as they may with a younger team.

[Oscirus]

question 1 keep rose get rid of perry, lack of good youth on this team is pathetic, lets see what the utah guy can do at gm.
question 2 really want to boot thibs but that aint happening
question 3 worse than expected
question 4 somewhere between rebuilding and waning

[BugginOut]

I have less exposure than Knicks fans but I don't get why firing Thibs would be a priority. From the outside looking in he overachieved big time with his roster last year and roughly as expected this year when the EC competition got a lot stiffer. Has he not earned himself another year at least?

Thibs deserves another year for sure it’s just Knicks fans overreacting to a bad season that was mostly due to FA signings. It would be pretty comical to fire the reigning COTY after he lead the team to their best season and 2nd best season in 8 years.

And for how much people get on Thibs for developing rookies, every single young player on this team looks like a competent NBA player with many of these players being late first and 2nd round picks. Considering that we have had a ton if high lotto picks bust in NY, I like Thibs approach of developing a lot more than playing Knox 40 minutes a game and just hoping he figures it out.

[Chanel Bomber]

The Knicks are a treadmill team that needs to consolidate its assets and make a move for a legitimate #1 or #2, (or for draft capital). They do not have that player on their roster, and they are going nowhere without one.

They have quantity but no quality - a Scott Perry staple.

Also, the Knicks are at risk of making the same mistake with RJ that they made by extending Randle a year early. RJ is not a good player today (he could be one day), and maxing him out a year before he becomes a RFA would in my opinion be further evidence of the Knicks' incompetence.

The priorities for this offseason are:

- Resigning Robinson (their best player after Rose) to a reasonable contract or getting value back in a sign-and-trade
- Getting out of Randle's contract without giving up draft picks (bonne chance with that but a Westbrook trade could make sense for both teams)
- Not rushing to extend RJ - either let his contract run out until RFA, or trade him to get value back now
- Adding real quality to this roster - not the Randles, Fourniers or RJs of the world - or trading players for draft picks

Building a successful team in the NBA is more about execution than it is about philosophy. So the Knicks could look at different avenues to prepare for the future. I don't think they must either tank, stay the course or go all-in. The direction they should take rests entirely upon how well they can execute each strategy in order to put the franchise on the path to contention at some point in the future.

A few avenues, some of which may or may not be realistic but the Knicks do have a combination of picks, young players and decent veterans:

1. The high-risk, high-reward approach: trade for Zion (but then keep Quickley)
2. The win-now move: trade for Dame, S&T for Beal, resign Robinson
3. The scorched Earth policy or rebuild: trade RJ to Sacramento for picks, trade Randle, Fournier and Rose for Westbrook and picks
4. The compromise: S&T for Ayton (if Sarver is too cheap to pay him), S&T for Brunson, keep RJ but let him reach RFA before you resign him

These are just general ideas.

The Knicks are screwed if they don't pivot. But they still have a chance to do so.

[DOT]

I have less exposure than Knicks fans but I don't get why firing Thibs would be a priority. From the outside looking in he overachieved big time with his roster last year and roughly as expected this year when the EC competition got a lot stiffer. Has he not earned himself another year at least?

He's making the same mistakes he always has, and it's clearly putting a limit on the teams' ceiling

For example, in a game we were losing by 15 with 30 seconds left, he subbed out every starter except RJ, who then injured his ankle right afterwards. Fortunately he only missed a couple weeks, but he clearly hasn't learned anything from the Rose incident

He refused to play our rookie Quentin Grimes until he was literally forced to due to injuries, and who immediately upon being given minutes showed he was clearly a rotational 3-D guy and should have been getting minutes from the start

"His" guys have no accountability. Julius Randle gives little to no effort most nights, and he never sees a minutes reduction for it, while if Obi messes up, he gets pulled from the game. There have been numerous occasions where a unit with Obi is playing well because the offense goes through the guards and we get decent shots, only for Thibs to bring Randle back in who immediately kills the flow

Speaking of, Thibs' offense is pure garbage. His "system" if you want to call it that is "let Julius do his best Melo impersonation". By that, I mean Randle will get the ball at the 3pt line, fake a 3, then do a 1-dribble pull-up iso long 2 which usually misses, or he'll post up a 6 foot guard 20 feet from the basket and go into a turnaround jumper, which also usually misses

To be fair, part of that is due to us not having a PG because Rose is injured and the FO signed Kemba thinking he could do it, but he can't so we shut him down, but Thibs' response was to play Alec Burks. Meanwhile, Immanuel Quickley has been tearing it up since the All Star break and is more of a PG than Burks, but Thibs won't even consider starting him

And that's not even getting into the fact that he has used Taj Gibson at PF next to Mitchell Robinson and Jericho Sims for extended stretches of time when Randle has missed games, which clearly did not work and yet we kept going back to it

If this were Thibs' second season overall as a coach, guys would be more lenient on him. But he's been doing this for over a decade, and has not learned from his mistakes, and refuses to adapt. So we know he's gonna be doing the same stuff in the future, because we have years worth of evidence before this. It'd be one thing if it were just injuries or Randle underperforming, because that's not on him, but it's the fact that despite those things he's making the same mistakes over and over again. It's the parable of the scorpion and the frog, it's just in his nature and he can't change.

[JXL]

1) Fire the GM - He's a shill right now, and its expected that all final decisions for the roster comes from Leon Rose.
2) Keep the Coach - Unpopular yes, but the fact that Rose supplemented the roster with players that block the youth from seeing the floor until certain circumstances arises puts the coach in a bind. Other hand, he didn't change how the roster should be used, but losing Derrick Rose to injury didn't make it better.
3) Performed worse than expected - That's on Randle. A fall from grace this was for him. The organization enabled his worse tendencies. That's got to change.
4) Treadmill team - Talent is below average until RJ becomes the All-Star player he believes he is. Still no two-way PG on the roster (IQ could be but doubt it). Need a two-way forward, and get Fournier off this team cause the scheme for him doesn't work.

[TwitterFingers]

Did anyone expect them to be anything but a treadmill team? Last year they massively overachieved and they only won one playoff game. They have the wrong strategy in trying to win games, but it could be that Dolan is telling management to make the playoffs. They should trade Randle, never should have signed Fournier, Burks, and Noel, but with the exception of Randle everyone has a short contract. And management has made some competent moves, while Thibs was COY just last year. Talk of firing anyone after less than two seasons is ridiculous.

[HoopsterJones]

Let’s be honest. The offseason moves of signing Fournier, Kemba, re-signing D Rose, these moves didn’t pan out.

They Knicks could hit the reset button yet again and focus on building a team around RJ Barrett who has played much better the second half of the season. They really need to build through the draft or bring in a legit star to go with Barrett and maybe Randle (looks disgruntled).

Thibs is still a very good coach, but his methods do wear thin over time, although this is his second year with the Knicks. He still under contract for another 3 seasons. I think they should bring him back next year for sure. If the Knicks underachieve again then it might be the right move to reset.

[dacrusha]

The Knicks are best off unloading Randle onto another team because, as it stands, they are building nothing but a treadmill roster with their current direction.

Barrett's got a decent future in front of him, but he isn't a difference maker... he'll top out as a #3/4 option on a contending team, so he needs at least 2-3 more horses around him for the Knicks to make any noise.

Could Mitchell be one? Maybe. After that, they've got nothing of note that will help catapult them to contending status.

[cgf]

All in all, I have a hard time not being pleased with the way this season has concluded. Would've loved a better pick and it would've been nice to have sold high on Randle last summer, but what mattered most of all to me this season was the development of our kids and that has been a big win this year.

RJ has taken strides I didn't expect until next season and has me more confident in his ability to become a title caliber #2, than ever before. Quickley has made a lot of progress after struggling to find the balance between scoring & playmaking earlier in the year. Robinson built on the progress he made last year. Grimes & Reddish were carving out rotation spots for themselves when they got hurt and look like they could be valuable wings for us. Sims & McBride have looked like legit NBA talents since being called into action, and Toppin has shown some real skill growth...even if he hasn't progressed as much as I had hoped he would this year.

Need a competent PG to help the kids take further steps next season, but we should be in a good spot to upgrade on Kemba if the FO has learned its lesson from last summer.

[Sark]

Knicks need a true franchise player. We haven't had one since Patrick Ewing. I'm not sure RJ is good enough to be a true franchise player. I'm leaning towards no.

Until they get one, they will be a treadmill team. All the other stuff doesn't matter.

End of story.

[cgf]

Knicks need a true franchise player. We haven't had one since Patrick Ewing. I'm not sure RJ is good enough to be a true franchise player. I'm leaning towards no.

Until they get one, they will be a treadmill team. All the other stuff doesn't matter.

End of story.

*shrug* You're a treadmill team until you're not, that label didn't stop Toronto or Miami from putting themselves in a position to acquire a title-caliber #1 and make a run with them once they did. If RJ can become our Lowry, then the progress he made this year makes the season a big success.

[iqureshi]

odd makeup of roster. Counting on D rose to be healthy (as a bulls fan big recipe for failure), replacing thibs hustling overachievers from last years teams for one dimensional offensive players who aren't that good at offense was a recipe for failure. If they luck into a top 3 pick they should be fine. No awful contracts which is uncharacteristic of the Knicks. Start with getting rid of Thibs, his style fazed out in 2010. not an awful roster makeup, but certainly not optimistic, at least they have all their draft picks.