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yes in my book

He's the best offensive player in the game. So, yes.

I think so, but a lot of guys could be top 5. It's close. In no order, I'm thinking these guys are part of the conversation:

Jokic, Giannis, Doncic, Embiid, Durant, Lebron. Then Curry and Morant are close too.

In reality or in vacuum? If in vacuum, no, as several other players can get a boost by giving up some defense load and focusing on scoring.

Probably between 5-10 with the foul baiting. Without foul baiting 10-15

Top 5 should be Luka Durant Embiid Curry Joker

kg01 wrote:He's the best offensive player in the game. So, yes.

What argument does he have over Jokic? 27ppg on 66 TS% vs 28ppg on 60 TS%. Trae does average 1.6 more assists a game, but he does so on a slightly higher usage right.

Trae scores very efficiently and creates a lot of scoring opportunities for his teammates so yeah I'd say he is in the convo for being a top 5 offensive player.

dygaction wrote:In reality or in vacuum? If in vacuum, no, as several other players can get a boost by giving up some defense load and focusing on scoring.

What? Outside of Giannis and possibly Jimmy Butler, who are these top players that could score more if they played "Trae level" defense, so to speak.

It's pretty close, so maybe? Only player I would say for sure is a better offensive player atm is Jokic, and his case is bolstered by current injuries to Steph and Kawhi. With them both hurt, I'd say yeah top 5.

I should stop here because we have two posters who lose their ish if you mention defense, but it is important in this context. Steve Nash led the best offense in the league every season for a decade, but those teams made significant defensive sacrifices to achieve that and the Hawks are doing the same thing now. There is more value to players with less offensive talent but who allow you to construct a team better able to hold their own defensively. And yes that matters when discussing just the offensive end. Sorry, but it does.

In the words of the great Northern Legend Kawhi Leonard, first of his name: indubitably. You best believe!

MrBigShot wrote: Trae does average 1.6 more assists a game, but he does so on a slightly higher usage right.

Usage doesn't have anything to do with how often a player has the ball. For that you probably want to use time of possession or touches, both of which Luka has more than Trae. In fact Luka leads the league in time of possession, which isn't exactly surprising from watching him play (same deal as Houston Harden, who is almost the exact same player without the hype train).

[Edit] I just realized you said Jokic, which invalidates my argument over time of possession. Although Jokic does lead the league in touches. He is incredibly efficient and IMO the best offensive force in the game and one of the best of all time. Like a taller Larry Bird.

ChuckChilly wrote:

dygaction wrote:In reality or in vacuum? If in vacuum, no, as several other players can get a boost by giving up some defense load and focusing on scoring.

What? Outside of Giannis and possibly Jimmy Butler, who are these top players that could score more if they played "Trae level" defense, so to speak.

Jokic/Tatum/Embiid/Luka/Durant/Giannis can all take more usage in offense by giving up some defense and rebounding loads, that's already 6

I'm not as friendly as Chuck. I think he's a top 10 offensive player and what he does on that side of the ball is incredible. But he's probably bottom 10 on defense among players that actually matter. I don't buy that the 8-10 seed in the East is solely a result of injuries.

He has a pretty good case for it. I think Jokic/Durant/Trae/Embiid/Luka would be my top 5 offensive players with Giannis/LeBron right on the cusp

Edit) How did I forget about Curry? I'd swap him in for somebody not named Jokic or Durant

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I'm not as friendly as Chuck. I think he's a top 10 offensive player and what he does on that side of the ball is incredible. But he's probably bottom 10 on defense among players that actually matter. I don't buy that the 8-10 seed in the East is solely a result of injuries.

The Hawks are definitely an average team. But there is only a 10 game difference between the 1st seed and the 10th seed as of now.

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I'm not as friendly as Chuck. I think he's a top 10 offensive player and what he does on that side of the ball is incredible. But he's probably bottom 10 on defense among players that actually matter. I don't buy that the 8-10 seed in the East is solely a result of injuries.

I'm confused. Is this the 'top 10 defense' thread?

This is like going into the DPOY thread and saying, "Bwah I dunno about Gobert for DPOY, his 3pt% is a bit subpar."

MrBigShot wrote:

kg01 wrote:He's the best offensive player in the game. So, yes.

What argument does he have over Jokic? 27ppg on 66 TS% vs 28ppg on 60 TS%. Trae does average 1.6 more assists a game, but he does so on a slightly higher usage right.

Trae scores very efficiently and creates a lot of scoring opportunities for his teammates so yeah I'd say he is in the convo for being a top 5 offensive player.

He can do everything Jokic can do offensively and he weighs about as much as Jokic's left calf.

You also basically answered your own question, btw.

Yeah I agree

If we had him on the Celtics we would tear up the league.

Its Traes world, that's it is

I don't have a problem with him in the top 5 for this season. Jokic is the one guy clearly ahead of him. I'd however likely want a number of guys ahead of him on a contender in the playoffs.

I view Jokic as on a tier of his own. I think Trae is in that next grouping including: Steph, Luka, KD. In short, yes.

kg01 wrote:

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I'm not as friendly as Chuck. I think he's a top 10 offensive player and what he does on that side of the ball is incredible. But he's probably bottom 10 on defense among players that actually matter. I don't buy that the 8-10 seed in the East is solely a result of injuries.

I'm confused. Is this the 'top 10 defense' thread?

This is like going into the DPOY thread and saying, "Bwah I dunno about Gobert for DPOY, his 3pt% is a bit subpar."

It isn't like that at all. Sigh. You know this.

But if Gobert was not a plus offensive player but instead a guy who hurt the team's offense to get his defense on the court, it would absolutely be relevant to the discussion because this isn't 1950's Iowa high school girls basketball where it is two separate 3v3 games where half the players only play offense and half only play defense.

And if you have to sacrifice too much defense to get max benefits from an offensive player, they aren't as valuable an offensive player as a result. Nash/Amare lit teams up, but they gave 80% of it back at the other end. Stockton/Malone weren't as good of offensive players, but because they were both plus defenders, their offense retained more team value.

But I get it. We can't talk about defense with Trae. Even though its relevant even to his offense...