12footrim wrote:scrabbarista wrote:
I've already posted a whole thread about Jordan's three-point shooting and the effect of era and player-role on his 3P%. But their respective free throw percentages are a good clue as to who was the more talented shooter (and, consequently, how their 3P%'s may have looked had they played in different eras), since 3PA and 3P% changed so drastically in (perceived) importance during the time between MJ and LeBron's births, debuts, primes, peaks, declines, and retirement(s).
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I completely disagree with you on the 3 point shooting take. If you take out the years the line was moved up to just with in Jordan's range he was like a 28% career three point point shooter. Even his last championship run with the Bulls when they moved it back he was 23%. When he came back from retirement the last time with the Wizards knowing he needed a 3 more than ever he was as god awful as he'd ever been and he had decades of trying to add it and only got worse.
This is a guy that got beat in ping pong by Laettner and obsessed over how to get better at ping pong just to beat him. Do you seriously think after the humiliation of the 1990 three point shooting contest where he's the worst performance ever in it that he wouldn't have added a good three if he was actually capable?
Any time people say this it's so stupid to me because the guy was never going to be a 3 point shooter. He tried, the 3 point line was around since 1980 and he even grew up as an ABA fan so he had exposure from the minute he picked up a basketball to the 3. There are plenty of contemporaries that literally has ZERO issue the same age or even older making three's. I guess we just ignore that and pretend like the guy never tried and just couldn't shoot 3's, doesn't fit the narrative.
Here's my original thread, so you can understand some of my reasoning:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1930800&hilit=question+for+those+who+watched+MJ+playIn MJ's last championship run, he was running on fumes to the point that he chose to retire rather than come back for another season so grueling. I've posted a whole thread on the number of games/minutes he was playing. I think it averaged out to about 48 minutes per two days over a period of about nine or ten months during that season, if you include the preseason and playoffs. Something like that. Maybe it was every 2.5 days. For nine or ten months! Anyway, it was beyond anything we can really conceive of given today's standards for how much (i.e., how little) stars are expected to play. He did that in the season he turned 35.
In that season, he took 1.5 3PA's per game during the regular season. Is there a reason his 3PA's went up from 1.5 to 2.0 in the playoffs that season, and his percentage went up from 23% to 30%, despite having tired legs while being in the last stretch of that grueling nine or ten month stretch, and despite facing better defenses? Yes, the reason is because 1.5 is such a low number of attempts that it isn't representative. Especially considering the player-role in question: a large portion of those 1.5 attempts were probably at the end of shot clocks and the end of quarters and the end of games, when the ball always would've been in MJ's hands and there was no precedent or practice of protecting percentages the way players do today. I've seen Jordan chuck up a full-court shot at the end of a game that his team won by 10. That shot went into his percentages. That's how little players cared about 3P% in those days. (Or, he had money on the line

. J/k. They really didn't care.) It may also have something to do with the elimination of back-to-backs during the playoffs in an era when back-to-backs were far more common than now.
As to your "ping pong argument," then why didn't Jordan lead the league in blocks, if he was that competitive? Or in charges taken? The answer is because it was irrelevant. His competitive nature drove him to
win, and to do what was necessary to win. If it wasn't necessary to winning, which 3P% obviously wasn't, then it wasn't relevant. I can promise you MJ wasn't out here saying, "Man, I just won three straight championships and a gold medal, but Jeff Hornacek has a better 3P% than me, so I guess I'm still a loser. I better get to shooting three's!"
I'm curious what your evidence is to support the idea that "he tried." Because I do have evidence that his low number of attempts actually hurt his percentage. If we ignore the shortened-line seasons, Jordan's top two seasons in attempts were also his top two seasons in percentage (.376 in 1990 and .352 in 1993). So, the evidence seems to say that the more "he tried" (i.e., shot), the better he shot. There's more on this in the link I provided, specifically regarding how he shot much better from three in the playoffs, when he was presumably trying harder.
As to his Wizards time, your argument that he should be faulted for not adding new elements to his game at age 39 and 40 is, uh... Most players start to shoot worse from everywhere that late in their careers, even from the free throw line. The body just isn't as comfortable and loose anymore, and shooting suffers as a result. This would be even more expected from a guy who was his team's primary creator at that age.
I know you aren't really interested, because A) you responded to my "take" before asking to read the original thread that I specifically referenced as containing my reasoning for the take, and B) you used a phrase like "so stupid,"
but I'm just posting in case someone else is interested.
All human life on the earth is like grass, and all human glory is like a flower in a field. The grass dries up and its flower falls off, but the Lord’s word endures forever.