How is a shooter's "landing space" defined?

[BrianInPhilly]

Creating this thread to answer one and for all this question. In the past couple years I've noticed a shift in NBA rules where they call fouls on defenders when a shooter jumps FORWARD and lands on a defender's feet. As a long time NBA fan I still do not understand the rule. 5 years + ago, I swear the rule was you just couldn't jump into the space the shooter jumps FROM, but now a shooter can jump 3 feet forward INTO a defender and it's a foul.

How is this rule defined in the rule book?

It's unfair. I grew up watching guys like Dirk and Kobe. Those guys, as well as every other guy from the past never got a call when they jump into a guy.

The rule as it is now doesn't make sense. Why can't if a defender is defending up close on a guy - an offensive player just jump forward into him instead of fading away? How it's called apparently it is a foul unless the defender in a split second just moves out of the way so the offensive player doesn't land on him. Where as before it was just you couldn't jump into where a player jumped from. In what world does this rule make sense at any level of basketball?

Can someone clear up this once for and all? I feel this new rule is severely hurting defenses. How in the world are you supposed to contest a guy's shot if you literally can't jump within 3 feet of him. Are we really telling defenders they can just contest a shot from the side now?

[Roscoe Sheed]

I agree- this rule is often interpreted very badly- making it almost illegal to defend a jump shot in any form

[nfmos]

I did think it was supposed to prevent the Zaza type moves of sliding under a shooter that was going straight up but it definitely is now pretty vague, at least its a little better this year but there needs to be further clarification.

Also though, its weird that its only about 3 pointers. Like today, Curry was jumping up into a floater, and someone slid under him to try to get a charge, which to me is just as dangerous. It was counted as a block, but are the slide under rules only for 3 pointers?

[Tor_Raps]

I was watching Crowder and getting annoyed how he jumps forward a few feet when he lands. You are supposed to be allowed to go straight up and down but too many guys go forward/sideways and still get calls.

Hope the nba could try to fix that because no one wants to see 3 point shooters get more free throws than guys who attack the rim consistently.

[BrianInPhilly]

I did think it was supposed to prevent the Zaza type moves of sliding under a shooter that was going straight up but it definitely is now pretty vague, at least its a little better this year but there needs to be further clarification.

Also though, its weird that its only about 3 pointers. Like today, Curry was jumping up into a floater, and someone slid under him to try to get a charge, which to me is just as dangerous. It was counted as a block, but are the slide under rules only for 3 pointers?

Good point. And that's 1 of the things I said in my post ... From my understanding, there are no ALTERED rules based off if a guy is shooting a 5 footer vs. 25 footer. I don't understand the rule - How is it even written in the rule book?

I agree it is based off the Zaza play. As you alluded to though, how it's called is not related to that play at all. Zaza jumped INTO where Kawhi jumped from and then even stepped a few feet further into where he was fading away! It's completely different than how they call it now.

[HotelVitale]

It seems pretty clear--the person jumping can't change the place they're going to end up in once they've jumped (cuz physics/gravity and human muscles), so the landing space is defined as that space they're going to land in. If a defender slides into that space while they're in the air and the shooter comes down on him, it's a foul. Not sure what's unfair about that or why you think it leaves the defender without anything to do. Just don't end up exactly where a defender is going to land and you're golden.

Also feel like I rarely see this mis-called, the refs are even right most of the time on the offensive fouls where the shooter unnaturally kicks his legs out to hit the defender.

[BrianInPhilly]

It seems pretty clear--the person jumping can't really change the place they're going to end up in once they've jumped, so the landing space is defined as, like, the space they're going to land in. If a defender slides into that space while they're in the air, it's a foul. I rarely see this mis-called, the refs are even right most of the time on the offensive fouls where the shooter unnaturally kicks his legs out to hit the defender.

So how does a defender know where an offensive player will land if they both jump at the same time?

That's impossible.

Or to get more specific, is there a feet requirement? Say an offensive player shoots but he jumps 4 feet up ...

Maybe I'm losing my mind though.

Still waiting for someone to point out this rule in the rulebook.

[CIN-C-STAR]

The Zaza play was already a foul under existing rules too, so this rule change by the NBA was completely unnecessary.
Analytically speaking, fouling on a 3-point shot is the 2nd-worst defensive play a defender can make, behind only a flagrant foul. Under current rules, a legitimate attempt to contest a 3-point shot could easily result in either one due to an offensive player unexpectedly (and unnecessarily) jumping toward the defender on their shot.
So, predictably, players often don't even bother to seriously contest 3s unless they are in perfect position to do so.
And the league sells it as guys are way better at shooting now, when really they are just hoisting practice 3s in game because the rules make it nearly impossible to defend.
Meanwhile you can put 2 hands on a post player with a live dribble and that's considered good defense.
It's asinine.

[HotelVitale]

It seems pretty clear--the person jumping can't really change the place they're going to end up in once they've jumped, so the landing space is defined as, like, the space they're going to land in. If a defender slides into that space while they're in the air, it's a foul. I rarely see this mis-called, the refs are even right most of the time on the offensive fouls where the shooter unnaturally kicks his legs out to hit the defender.

So how does a defender know where an offensive player will land if they both jump at the same time? That's impossible. Maybe I'm losing my mind though. Still waiting for someone to point out this rule in the rulebook.

Jumpshooters mostly go basically straight up and down (or just slightly one way or another) on like 90% of shots so that's the answer for that, the rest of shots are floaters, runners, leaners, etc and you can tell which way the shooters are jumping by basic physics and observation. I'm assuming we've both played hundreds of hours of bball in our lives, you know that because you know it. It's not like in pick-up or rec league ball shooters are constantly coming down on defenders or whatever, you'd know it'd be weird and kinda dirty if that happened.

[BrianInPhilly]

Seems like we agree. Sure if you jump into where a guy jumps from it’s a foul, and I may even give a guy a foot in front too.

What I don’t get it the refs now call it when a guy jumps forward.

I can’t imagine in pickup or any other league this being a foul.

As you said jumping up and down is a natural motion. For me - IF A SHOOTER DECIDES TO JUMP FORWARD, that’s on them that they don’t land on someone. They’re taking a chance they land on someone.

The NBA has got to clear up this rule in the off-season. The fact most of the time the refs even review it for a flagrant is laughable.

[sikma42]

Seems like we agree. Sure if you jump into where a guy jumps from it’s a foul, and I may even give a guy a foot in front too.

What I don’t get it the refs now call it when a guy jumps forward.

I can’t imagine in pickup or any other league this being a foul.

As you said jumping up and down is a natural motion. For me - IF A SHOOTER DECIDES TO JUMP FORWARD, that’s on them that they don’t land on someone. They’re taking a chance they land on someone.

The NBA has got to clear up this rule in the off-season. The fact most of the time the refs even review it for a flagrant is laughable.

It’s really easy to defend and not go into someone’s landing area. You seem like the type to avoid playing ball with


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[BrianInPhilly]

Seems like we agree. Sure if you jump into where a guy jumps from it’s a foul, and I may even give a guy a foot in front too.

What I don’t get it the refs now call it when a guy jumps forward.

I can’t imagine in pickup or any other league this being a foul.

As you said jumping up and down is a natural motion. For me - IF A SHOOTER DECIDES TO JUMP FORWARD, that’s on them that they don’t land on someone. They’re taking a chance they land on someone.

The NBA has got to clear up this rule in the off-season. The fact most of the time the refs even review it for a flagrant is laughable.

It’s really easy to defend and not go into someone’s landing area. You seem like the type to avoid playing ball with


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Are you serious?

You still haven't defined what "someone's landing area" actually is. That's the whole point of this thread but in your childish response you didn't even define the term you're using.

Is a shooter entitled to the 6 feet of space in front of him? 3 feet? 1 feet? What is the rule? This thread has been up over an hour an no-one has provided the exact rule.

And I don't know where you play ball, but I rarely see shooters jumping forward on their shots. That's not natural at all, unless again it's 6 inches-foot in front.

[aemannarwal]

I was watching Crowder and getting annoyed how he jumps forward a few feet when he lands. You are supposed to be allowed to go straight up and down but too many guys go forward/sideways and still get calls.

Hope the nba could try to fix that because no one wants to see 3 point shooters get more free throws than guys who attack the rim consistently.

Some players jump a little forward after they release the ball. I do cause I need the momentum in the shot.

If someone's shot is like that you need to respect that.
Defending has not been made tough cause of that. It is tough cause the dribbler is allowed to take 3 steps, palm/carry the ball, set illegal moving screens.

[Harry Garris]

Their landing area is where their feet land when they come down from their jumper. The NBA has changed the rule so jump shooters aren't allowed to jump sideways to create contact anymore, but so long as the motion is forward you can't put your feet into the spot where they're coming down.

[BrianInPhilly]

Their landing area is where their feet land when they come down from their jumper. The NBA has changed the rule so jump shooters aren't allowed to jump sideways to create contact anymore, but so long as the motion is forward you can't put your feet into the spot where they're coming down.

So say the shot clock is running down, a defender is pressing an offensive guy ... You're saying an offensive player can just jump forward into a defensive player and it will be a foul? Because of course the defensive guy won't have time to move out of the way in a split second.

This rule is going to open up a lot of issues next year. I don't think offensive players have adjusted fully yet. Next year we're gonna see a lot of mid range shots where a guy jumps into a defender and it's going to cause a lot of controversy in my opinion.

[Harry Garris]

Their landing area is where their feet land when they come down from their jumper. The NBA has changed the rule so jump shooters aren't allowed to jump sideways to create contact anymore, but so long as the motion is forward you can't put your feet into the spot where they're coming down.

So say the shot clock is running down, a defender is pressing an offensive guy ... You're saying an offensive player can just jump forward into a defensive player and it will be a foul? Because of course the defensive guy won't have time to move out of the way in a split second.

This rule is going to open up a lot of issues next year. I don't think offensive players have adjusted fully yet. Next year we're gonna see a lot of mid range shots where a guy jumps into a defender and it's going to cause a lot of controversy in my opinion.

No the landing space rule is for defenders closing out on a shooter. You can't jump forward as a shooter into a stationary player.

[Patches Perry]

Unfortunately a lot of the onus is on the defender to determine where the offensive player will land based on their momentum on the shot. If I recall correctly, the offensive player is not allowed to kick their legs out forward or to the side, but if they jump forward some but their legs stay underneath them, then the defender needs to honor that space. It's not entirely different from a player going for a layup. If the offensive player jumps and you move into their landing area, even though they're moving forward, you're going to be called for a foul.

I think this is why you'll see a lot of perimeter defenders move to challenging outside shots from the side. Shade your contest towards to the side of their body where their shooting hand is, and that way you can challenge up top and you're to the side of their landing space rather than in front of them. It's more natural for the offensive player's momentum to go towards the hoop, so contesting on the side rather than right in front is less risky.

[BrianInPhilly]

Their landing area is where their feet land when they come down from their jumper. The NBA has changed the rule so jump shooters aren't allowed to jump sideways to create contact anymore, but so long as the motion is forward you can't put your feet into the spot where they're coming down.

So say the shot clock is running down, a defender is pressing an offensive guy ... You're saying an offensive player can just jump forward into a defensive player and it will be a foul? Because of course the defensive guy won't have time to move out of the way in a split second.

This rule is going to open up a lot of issues next year. I don't think offensive players have adjusted fully yet. Next year we're gonna see a lot of mid range shots where a guy jumps into a defender and it's going to cause a lot of controversy in my opinion.

No the landing space rule is for defenders closing out on a shooter. You can't jump forward as a shooter into a stationary player.

Ok, I've seen it called before where a guy just didn't get out of the way though on a 3 point shooter jumping forward. The rule as you're stating it isn't as bad but I've seen calls where a player doesn't move and it's still a foul.

I would be semi-ok with the rule if once again - it is actually clear what the rule is. There needs to be a foot requirement because it's subjective if not. If you're a defender closing out on a 3 point shooter - You have no idea where he'll land as you're running out to contest and it's silly to force defenders to predict where the shooter will land.

But if you know the rule is a shooter is entitled "2 foot in front of him to land AND the width of his body in front" that would be alright in my book. Is this in the rule book? What is in the rule book? I checked earlier but couldn't find anything but I'll check again ...

My issue is the rule is not clearly defined, and it is really hurting defenders ability to contest shots and it's hurting the game in my opinion.

[Perseus1966]

oh my favorite rule.
Look how Poole kick his leg to earn free throws injuring bebry -he got 3 ft

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=DunkCitty

[Perseus1966]

They can give an extra foot but i see players shooting 2 feet outside and land 1 foot inside.