Tatum VS Luka

[Raps in 4]

Both were exposed after game 1 so neither.

[scrabbarista]

Weird I haven't voted yet. I guess I'll go Luka, but it's not an easy call. My final MVP top five had Tatum fourth and Luka fifth. Still, in a vacuum, Luka seems more likely to go out and just win a game by himself. I'm not mad if anyone thinks Tatum is better, though. It's not a no-brainer.

[CoP]

This is an infinity thread that just keeps getting bumped every time one of them has a really good or really bad game. Zzzz.

[hugepatsfan]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

[themoneyteam2]

Both were exposed after game 1 so neither.

Tatum was exposed by going for 29/8/6 on 10-21 shooting? Yes his 7 turnovers were brutal.

I guess “exposed” has a new meaning in Canada

[Raps in 4]

Both were exposed after game 1 so neither.

Tatum was exposed by going for 29/8/6 on 10-21 shooting? Yes his 7 turnovers were brutal.

I guess “exposed” has a new meaning in Canada

And I guess sarcasm detectors in New England are in short supply.

[themoneyteam2]

Both were exposed after game 1 so neither.

Tatum was exposed by going for 29/8/6 on 10-21 shooting? Yes his 7 turnovers were brutal.

I guess “exposed” has a new meaning in Canada

And I guess sarcasm detectors in New England are in short supply.

Hard to tell sarcasm online sorry that I couldn’t detect that bud

[sam_I_am]

I voted Tatum partly as a homer because honestly Luka is probably a little better right now, but mostly because I see Tatum as having much more untapped ability. I don’t think Luka will get that much better due to conditioning, defensive limitations and because he is already so close to his ceiling and understanding of the game (BBIQ). All young players do get better so Luka will too but I don’t see his game having a leap to another level. Tatum on the other hand is still scratching at his potential. In 2 years when he is maxes out in size and strength and BBIQ he could become the best player in NBA.

[mabundo_nagumbe]

I voted Tatum partly as a homer because honestly Luka is probably a little better right now, but mostly because I see Tatum as having much more untapped ability. I don’t think Luka will get that much better due to conditioning, defensive limitations and because he is already so close to his ceiling and understanding of the game (BBIQ). All young players do get better so Luka will too but I don’t see his game having a leap to another level. Tatum on the other hand is still scratching at his potential. In 2 years when he is maxes out in size and strength and BBIQ he could become the best player in NBA.

I don't think you are right on this one. "I don't think Luka will will get much better due to conditionig", while you say that Tatum, who is phzsically already a beast, will "max out in size and strength". I think you are contradicting yourself. Luka CAN get better, because he is in full control of his conditioning. In the meanwhile, BBIQ is something that's much harder to work on, so Tatum is less likely to improve in this aspect, compared to how much Luka can improve his body...

[bisme37]

We need a few Finals matchups between Luka and JT. Then they should just team up and win a few more. On the Celtics of course. Debate solved.

[Stan34]

Do people get that Luka is surrounded by a bunch of players who would not even start on a lot of NBA teams? Almost everyone he starts with have spent the majority of their NBA career as bench players. The sum of his supporting cast isn't much different from early first stint Lebron Cavs. Take Luka off the Mavs and the best player off every other playoff team remaining, and compare their rosters. The Mavs look more like a team that should be competing in the lottery for the number 1 pick. If he had a semblance of the supporting talent Tatum has, or even Harden had during his prime with the Rockets, it would be a completely different story.

He's always going to be an average defender (all the metrics say that's what he is), but if your supporting cast is so bad you have to have his usage rate be through the roof, his defense is gonna suffer. But he's an offensive hub of Lebron proportions. You can't watch him literally target amazing defenders like Kawhi, George, and now Mikal Bridges and dominate them like they're nobodies and be like that's normal.

But they were up 2-1 vs Utah in the playoff without Doncic

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[dygaction]

Which one surprises you more?

Dirk has career 10 more 3pters made in playoffs than Tatum;
Luka has made more 3pters in playoffs than Bird.

[soxfan2003]

As a Celtics fan, the way I see it Doncic has more upside than Tatum because of his ballhandling skills and the fact that he could theoretically improve a lot from the free throw line/3 and get in better shape as well like he was while playing in Europe but I'd rather add Tatum to let's say a typical well balanced 45 win team than Doncic.

Doncic is more valuable to add to a bad to mediocre team since he can be such a high usage player. He can be your PG in halfcourt sets and Tatum can't do that effectively even though Tatum has improved his passing -- game 1 vs Miami withstanding.

But on a good team, Tatum's advantages such as 3 point shooting and being a very good defender and being a player that moves around a little more on offense off ball becomes more important.

Tatum's area of upside right now is getting a little bit stronger, becoming a better free throw shooter and having less lapses where he complains about calls instead of just focusing on getting back on D.

[soxfan2003]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

Tatum is the better shooter behind the arc and a free throw shooter. And defense is half the game...

I honestly give the overall edge with how I view the game (championship lens) to Tatum right now and despite being a huge Celtics fan, I call them like I see them.

For example, when the vast majority of Celtics fans still thought Rondo was a top 10 PG worth building around, I said he wasn't since I saw his decline and some other young players like John Wall who were better. When a bunch of Celtics fans still liked IT, I said he should be released if the Celtics couldn't trade him.

[soxfan2003]

Which one surprises you more?

Dirk has career 10 more 3pters made in playoffs than Tatum;
Luka has made more 3pters in playoffs than Bird.

Even though Tatum has played a lot of playoff games and I realize Dirk shot a lot in the midrange, Tatum closing in on Dirk surprises me more. Bird didn't really shoot many 3's early in his career and even when he did a little, he was more likely to only prioritize them when the Celtics really needed 3 points instead of 2.

[hugepatsfan]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

Tatum is the better shooter behind the arc and a free throw shooter. And defense is half the game...

I honestly give the overall edge with how I view the game (championship lens) to Tatum right now and despite being a huge Celtics fan, I call them like I see them.

For example, when the vast majority of Celtics fans still thought Rondo was a top 10 PG worth building around, I said he wasn't since I saw his decline and some other young players like John Wall who were better. When a bunch of Celtics fans still liked IT, I said he should be released if the Celtics couldn't trade him.

I agree that Tatum is better at those individual skills. But as a whole, I think Luka is just pretty easily better on offense. Like not even close. The droughts that Tatum goes through don't happen with Luka. And defense might be half the game but it's not equally important in ranking players. You can hide your stars on defense if you need to.

[Sweet Meat Lew]

You can't know anything about basketball if you can't look at the west and realize this isn't the west that we've come to know over the last 10 years. The Mavs bested a Jazz team with severe chemistry issues, a broken Nuggets team, the Timberwolves and Pelicans. Where is this remarkable overachievement that you speak of?

You seem confused. Dallas beat Utah who was in fact struggling. Then they beat a team that was 8 wins clear of the field in the Suns. Not sure where you are getting those other 3 teams or why you think the Mavs had to win 4 series to get to the conference Finals when the other teams had to win 2.

wild the takes when people don't like a player. They just make stuff up and assume nobody will fact check even the most obvious things. Not going to even get into the rest of that mess when you can't get this part close.

I get it...comprehension is tough for some people. Clearly I was referencing the Mav's amazing regular season success that you mentioned as one of your key points. If you didn't understand the response you could've simply reread your post for context. It isn't that hard.

[Patsfan1081]

Which one surprises you more?

Dirk has career 10 more 3pters made in playoffs than Tatum;
Luka has made more 3pters in playoffs than Bird.

With the amount of threes taken in the game today nothing is surprising anymore. I think Marcus Smart is like 2nd all time in made three pointers for Boston.

[DroseReturnChi]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

basically players that cant play with the ball are all mediocre and inferior to number 1 options with main ball handling.
sure off ball is at times more valuable but 9 out of 10 it isnt. luka has also ability to play off ball many dont seem to understand.

[Patsfan1081]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

Tatum is the better shooter behind the arc and a free throw shooter. And defense is half the game...

I honestly give the overall edge with how I view the game (championship lens) to Tatum right now and despite being a huge Celtics fan, I call them like I see them.

For example, when the vast majority of Celtics fans still thought Rondo was a top 10 PG worth building around, I said he wasn't since I saw his decline and some other young players like John Wall who were better. When a bunch of Celtics fans still liked IT, I said he should be released if the Celtics couldn't trade him.

I agree that Tatum is better at those individual skills. But as a whole, I think Luka is just pretty easily better on offense. Like not even close. The droughts that Tatum goes through don't happen with Luka. And defense might be half the game but it's not equally important in ranking players. You can hide your stars on defense if you need to.

As a Celtic fan Im not sure how you could have watched IT and Kemba and make this declaration. You might be able to early on but better teams will def exploit them in switches.