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Hoopstar23 wrote:

Continued from here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2184600&start=2060

Suns in 6. Only reason this series has been close is because of the Suns poor shooting in games 1-4. They were getting good, open looks. Just not making them. Suns led the whole way in game 5 since they shot better. Suns shooting woes can't last forever and NoLo's absurd shooting won't last, which it didn't last night with CJ going 7/22.

If it goes to 7 I expect Book to play but I think this will be over Thursday evening.

Suns in 7. Mikal’s game was anomalous and role players do better at home. I don’t think we see Booker until Round 2

Can’t wait for game 6 in the blender

I honestly love this series. From the backstory of Green and Monty, to the rise of a new superstar BI, along with a plethora of young talent in Avarado, Williams and Naji. On the Suns side you have Chris Paul at the twilight of his career with basically in my opinion his last year or two of high level basketball which is now bringing the need for the suns young guns Bridges, Johnson and Ayton to show they are more than just Bruce Bowens, Brent Barry's and side bae's of David Robinson comparisons while Book is out. What a treat this has been and will definitely watch more pels games (love your tv announcer) next year.

Suns will seal it.

Nah. Pelicans in 7

Pelicans just before the trade deadline were holding a mid top 10 pick more than 12 games under 500, 3 games back of Portland for 10th seed, The bottom of the West was so bad, Portland who traded CJ, decided to tank holding a playin position. THE reason Pelicans traded that pick for CJ is becuase the team was already trending towards the 10th seed playing slightly better than 500 ball, otherwise trading that mid top 10 pick, that far under 500, would have been a terrible decision, especially with DG loving Smith atop this draft.. Pelicans had already turned their season around prior to the trade deadline, they were playing just above 500 with BI after the 3-16 start & were already trending towards the 10th seed making sense to trade their mid top 10 pick, projecting it would not remain top 10. Pre trade deadline, they were on a 5 game win streek. Post trade, they lost their first 4 of 5 games, then put together a mini 3 game streek post allstar break before BI got hurt again for the next 10 games, in which the team played 500 ball with CJ, Just under the pace they were playing before trade. Yet people think they wouldn't have made it without CJ despite playing at relatively the same win pace because of BI's injury which could not have been factored in.

If you watched any Pelicans games & not lying about it, you can say CJ added to the team, what you can't say,, is he was the reason for their turnaround. Saying that is a discredit to the players & Hart that turned their year around.

Saw the rumor, I hope Booker is back for this one.

Whole Truth wrote:Saw the rumor, I hope Booker is back for this one.

Hoping it’s not a rumor but the whole truth.

Qwigglez wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:Saw the rumor, I hope Booker is back for this one.

Hoping it’s not a rumor but the whole truth.

For me, Suns rushing Booker back is a sign of respect, compliment for what NO's has & is doing. No longer the once believed push over by the masses & supposed experts.

Whole Truth wrote:

Qwigglez wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:Saw the rumor, I hope Booker is back for this one.

Hoping it’s not a rumor but the whole truth.

For me, Suns rushing Booker back is a sign of respect, compliment for what NO's has & is doing. No longer the once believed push over by the masses & supposed experts.

I mean by now I don't think anybody sees the Pels as just a play-in team or even just an 8 seed. they deserve respect and they earned the wins they got so far. The media is doing the sensible move by hyping them up while they are still in the series because even if they eliminated it means they are building awareness for next season when Zion returns.

I never thought the Pelican's were an easy matchup and was more concerned about them as a Suns fan than any of the potential playin team match ups, they have two guys that have always given the Suns problems and when hot can score with anyone in the league a huge center that is exactly the type Ayton struggles to rebound against and long athletic guys that play hard on defense. So yeah I didn't expect it to go 7 and who knows if it does or would have if Booker was here but the pelicans winning one or two of the games when it began didn't seem unrealistic either

Whole Truth wrote:Pelicans just before the trade deadline were holding a mid top 10 pick more than 12 games under 500, 3 games back of Portland for 10th seed, The bottom of the West was so bad, Portland who traded CJ, decided to tank holding a playin position. THE reason Pelicans traded that pick for CJ is becuase the team was already trending towards the 10th seed playing slightly better than 500 ball, otherwise trading that mid top 10 pick, that far under 500, would have been a terrible decision, especially with DG loving Smith atop this draft.. Pelicans had already turned their season around prior to the trade deadline, they were playing just above 500 with BI after the 3-16 start & were already trending towards the 10th seed making sense to trade their mid top 10 pick, projecting it would not remain top 10. Pre trade deadline, they were on a 5 game win streek. Post trade, they lost their first 4 of 5 games, then put together a mini 3 game streek post allstar break before BI got hurt again for the next 10 games, in which the team played 500 ball with CJ, Just under the pace they were playing before trade. Yet people think they wouldn't have made it without CJ despite playing at relatively the same win pace because of BI's injury which could not have been factored in.

If you watched any Pelicans games & not lying about it, you can say CJ added to the team, what you can't say,, is he was the reason for their turnaround. Saying that is a discredit to the players &
Hart that turned their year around.

Yeah it's interesting, because I still think the 5 man lineup that had the best plus minus for the Pels was with Hart and Graham as starters, and to your point they were playing strong basketball before the trade. But it was so reliant on BI to score, that I really wonder how sustainable it was. Like, in the 4th when teams would double him there was no other release valve. But you are right, the team had already started to turn it around and Hart was leading them with winning bastketball.

Whole Truth wrote:

Qwigglez wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:Saw the rumor, I hope Booker is back for this one.

Hoping it’s not a rumor but the whole truth.

For me, Suns rushing Booker back is a sign of respect, compliment for what NO's has & is doing. No longer the once believed push over by the masses & supposed experts.

If Devin Booker is absolutely needed this game, I would have him coming off the bench. It would add a wrinkle the Pelican's defense especially when their second unit is on the floor.

But only play him when absolutely necessary, on a minutes restriction (say <24 minutes)?

Wallace_Wallace wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:

Qwigglez wrote:Hoping it’s not a rumor but the whole truth.

For me, Suns rushing Booker back is a sign of respect, compliment for what NO's has & is doing. No longer the once believed push over by the masses & supposed experts.

If Devin Booker is absolutely needed this game, I would have him coming off the bench. It would add a wrinkle the Pelican's defense especially when their second unit is on the floor.

But only play him when absolutely necessary, on a minutes restriction (say <24 minutes)?

if he really is good to go, and not just feeling obligated to go out there, we should use him in the 3rd quarter so CP3 can rest a bit more

lordjeff05 wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:Pelicans just before the trade deadline were holding a mid top 10 pick more than 12 games under 500, 3 games back of Portland for 10th seed, The bottom of the West was so bad, Portland who traded CJ, decided to tank holding a playin position. THE reason Pelicans traded that pick for CJ is becuase the team was already trending towards the 10th seed playing slightly better than 500 ball, otherwise trading that mid top 10 pick, that far under 500, would have been a terrible decision, especially with DG loving Smith atop this draft.. Pelicans had already turned their season around prior to the trade deadline, they were playing just above 500 with BI after the 3-16 start & were already trending towards the 10th seed making sense to trade their mid top 10 pick, projecting it would not remain top 10. Pre trade deadline, they were on a 5 game win streek. Post trade, they lost their first 4 of 5 games, then put together a mini 3 game streek post allstar break before BI got hurt again for the next 10 games, in which the team played 500 ball with CJ, Just under the pace they were playing before trade. Yet people think they wouldn't have made it without CJ despite playing at relatively the same win pace because of BI's injury which could not have been factored in.

If you watched any Pelicans games & not lying about it, you can say CJ added to the team, what you can't say,, is he was the reason for their turnaround. Saying that is a discredit to the players &
Hart that turned their year around.

Yeah it's interesting, because I still think the 5 man lineup that had the best plus minus for the Pels was with Hart and Graham as starters, and to your point they were playing strong basketball before the trade. But it was so reliant on BI to score, that I really wonder how sustainable it was. Like, in the 4th when teams would double him there was no other release valve. But you are right, the team had already started to turn it around and Hart was leading them with winning bastketball.

Isn't that what's happening now, to the point Suns are loading up on BI with CJ struggling... All series BI has been scoring over a tight defense, packed paint, it was more a case of better offense than bad defense where he's been concerned.. CJ has been ghost & people are crediting that to his defensive attention, which he has drawn. I'd love to see his shot chart for shots defended & undefended bexause I'm sure he's missed quite a few open looks. I won't put that all on CJ as Suns are cheating off Hayes & Herb to pack the paint but NO's have to have Herb on court & CJ's poor shooting is not helping either.

Hart was a very gritty defender that brought defensive energy, he set a defensive tone. Excellent in transition & a willing passer. NO's traded that for a "reliant scorer" who doesn't bring much else to the table outside of maybe rebounding... that reliant scorer is shooting (50-130) in the series roughly through 5 games, Duke pointed out his low TS%. He's got blinders on most of the time trying to shoot over 2-3 defenders & when he's not scoring, passing, he's a defensive weak link in the chain. Look at game 3 for example. Jonas had 5 touches with 2-3 of those touches coming off his offensive rebounding while Suns were going to Ayton most of the first half where he didn't have to concern himself with having to defend Jonas.., which makes Jonas a defensive liability, then look at game 4 when Green made an effort to get him involved... Whereas, Ayton & McGee went off in good part because Paul was hitting them in their spots. CJ was just looking for his offense, (26) shots on poor efficiency... He also has a 2-1 ATO rate for the series on roughly 25 assists mostly because most of his passes are bail out passes apposed to trying to set up his teammates..

I can't state what would/could have been but for me personally, I wouldn't have traded Hart's giritty defense & passing for CJ's offense at his age & 30m cost, love the Nance addition because he's a small ball defensive option. CJ just adds another weak defensive link to a starting rotation that had 3 prior to trade. As good as Herb is, he can only do so much being the lone + defender in the rotation post Hart trade. Pre trade I could also make an argument Jonas was a more efficient 2nd option than CJ has been under higher usage. So I'm stating better efficiency from Jonas under higher usage with Harts defense vs CJ being an inefficient volume scorer who doesn't add defensivley

NO's had 2 needs defense & shooting. Currently they're not getting much offensively from CJ & we know he's not a better defender & willing passer than Hart.

I've been hoping for CJ to get hot for atleast one game..thought the last one would be it with Suns switching Bridges onto BI.. (7-22) 32%. I think Hart would have been capable of matching that kind of shooting performance, while bringing defense & passing to the table. If not better shooting, at the least the ball movement would've been better.

The blow out game 4, CJ barely played 4th Q. Jonas got more touches & the rookies came in to defend.

Whole Truth wrote:
Isn't that what's happening now, to the point Suns are loading up on BI with CJ struggling... All series BI has been scoring over a tight defense, packed paint, it was more a case of better offense than bad defense where he's been concerned.. CJ has been ghost & people are crediting that to his defensive attention, which he has drawn. I'd love to see his shot chart for shots defended & undefended bexause I'm sure he's missed quite a few open looks. I won't put that all on CJ as Suns are cheating off Hayes & Herb to pack the paint but NO's have to have Herb on court & CJ's poor shooting is not helping either.

Hart was a very gritty defender that brought defensive energy, he set a defensive tone. Excellent in transition & a willing passer. NO's traded that for a "reliant scorer" who doesn't bring much else to the table outside of maybe rebounding... that reliant scorer is shooting (50-130) in the series roughly through 5 games, Duke pointed out his low TS%. He's got blinders on most of the time trying to shoot over 2-3 defenders & when he's not scoring, passing, he's a defensive weak link in the chain. Look at game 3 for example. Jonas had 5 touches with 2-3 of those touches coming off his offensive rebounding while Suns were going to Ayton most of the first half where he didn't have to concern himself with having to defend Jonas.., which makes Jonas a defensive liability, then look at game 4 when Green made an effort to get him involved... Whereas, Ayton & McGee went off in good part because Paul was hitting them in their spots. CJ was just looking for his offense, (26) shots on poor efficiency... He also has a 2-1 ATO rate for the series on roughly 25 assists mostly because most of his passes are bail out passes apposed to trying to set up his teammates..

I can't state what would/could have been but for me personally, I wouldn't have traded Hart's giritty defense & passing for CJ's offense at his age & 30m cost, love the Nance addition because he's a small ball defensive option. CJ just adds another weak defensive link to a starting rotation that had 3 prior to trade. As good as Herb is, he can only do so much being the lone + defender in the rotation post Hart trade. Pre trade I could also make an argument Jonas was a more efficient 2nd option than CJ has been under higher usage. So I'm stating better efficiency from Jonas under higher usage with Harts defense vs CJ being an inefficient volume scorer who doesn't add defensivley

NO's had 2 needs defense & shooting. Currently they're not getting much offensively from CJ & we know he's not a better defender & willing passer than Hart.

I've been hoping for CJ to get hot for atleast one game..thought the last one would be it with Suns switching Bridges onto BI.. (7-22) 32%. I think Hart would have been capable of matching that kind of shooting performance, while bringing defense & passing to the table. If not better shooting, at the least the ball movement would've been better.

The blow out game 4, CJ barely played 4th Q. Jonas got more touches & the rookies came in to defend.

Yeah I don't agree with this. CJ has been a bit disappointing but he hasn't been a ghost and he provides much more gravity than Hart did. You mentioned folks cheating off of Herb and Jax, and frankly I think that has been the main reason for the packed paint that Ingram is seeing. CJ is contributing 23 points per game to the team and shooting over 9 threes a game. Josh couldn't do that. He's also drawn the majority of coverage from Phoenix's best defender, Bridges, who also wouldn't be guarding Josh. Overall his game has been inefficient and his 3 percentage has been middling but he is providing more on the offensive end than Josh could provide.

I agree Josh did all of the things you said he did. But I think it's weird to compare them in this way because they weren't really playing the same position and Hart isn't a better passer than CJ, so he couldn't have countered the issues you are talking about. I'm not even sure if Hart to the Blazers was on Portland or if we wanted to keep Jax because he had started to improve at the 4. I think the team is better with CJ than Hart, especially because CJ takes Graham's minutes, and it because it gives us more scoring options when BI sits.

Jonas is a defensive liability because...Jonas is a defensive liability, not because CJ isn't finding him on offense.

I didn't realized how huge the record discrepancy is between the two team.

Suns: 64-18
Pelicans: 36-46

The Suns win total nearly doubled that of the Pelicans! I think if the Suns lose this series (even without Booker), it would rank up there as one of the most disappointing season in NBA history for any team considering its only the first round as well.