Shams: Dame Lillard, Blazers Close to 2-Yr/$120M Max Extension

[JDR720]

I don't buy the "team loyalty" thing when it comes to Lillard.

He gets a lot of praise, while being part of the problem. His contract is an albatross to the point Portland can't build anything around him. Basically like Beal in Washington.

Is it their faults their teams are dumb enough to give them those contracts? No, but they aren't "loyal" for staying in a place that pay them double what anyone else can/will.

[Courant]

Yes, Portland swung and missed plenty but so have many other teams. But the thing is you have to keep swinging and you have to make sure you're in a position to keep swinging. By Dame milking Portland for every penny he can, he took away the Blazers ability to keep swinging. Also, FA acquisitions aren't the only way cap space can be used to get better, Portland could potentially used that space to facilitate a trade. But again, Dame milked them for every penny he could, essentially taking Portland's chances of improving via FA or trade from low to not at all. Unless he's a complete moron (which I dont think he is at all) he knows full well that by him eating so much space his teams will never be able to compete for anything of significance.

Its easy for him to pretend to be loyal when he contributes to manufacturing the circumstance of being able to get every penny available, go into every season with zero expectations, get all his personal accolades and still be spoken in the same breath as elite players, all the while not having to face ANY pressure or criticism for lack of team success.

Portland already has enough constraints as an NBA outpost without its top player taking up one-third of the salary cap. But when the top player also has said publicly he is against recruiting free-agent players (which I take that Damian Lillard is not going to use his star power to help Portland get players to come to play with him), then it's yet another major constraint.

So Lillard has set up a situation where he is a big fish in a small pond with little water for the other fish, where he doesn't have to meet expectations for team success. He is aware that as long as Jerami Grant and Jusef Nurkic (who would be No. 4 and No. 5-type options on a playoff team) are his best teammates, he puts up his numbers and makes the occasional "loyalty" comments to assuage fans, then no one is going to hold him accountable (not even for the contract).

At this point, Lillard is aware that a team with him as the best player is at best scratching for a playoff spot, and in previous years those teams typically were one-and-done in the playoffs. To me, it's not as much about the contract, but it doesn't seem like he is that interested in helping attract players to come to Portland and play with him, which would raise expectations.

I don't buy the "team loyalty" thing when it comes to Lillard.

He gets a lot of praise, while being part of the problem. His contract is an albatross to the point Portland can't build anything around him. Basically like Beal in Washington.

Is it their faults their teams are dumb enough to give them those contracts? No, but they aren't "loyal" for staying in a place that pay them double what anyone else can/will.

It's pretty similar to the Bradley Beal situation -- both are second-tier players who are not good enough to carry a team farther than the first round of the playoffs as the top option but take up so much of their team's cap space that the teams can do only so much to get better. The teams also are not quite bad enough to get a high lottery pick to jumpstart their teams (2022 first-round pick Shaedon Sharpe at No. 7 is the highest pick Portland has had since drafting Lillard).

Like Lillard, Beal is aware of his situation and has created a safe space to parlay the situation into a big contract with no expectations (Beal also is guilty of using the "staying loyal" comments during his contract negotiations). Moreover, Beal has used those comments to secure the only contract in the NBA with a no-trade clause.

[JRoy]

money > rings

You see ex players selling their championship rings, you don’t see them buying those rings.

[JRoy]

money > rings

Thats the reason why no one will ever really hear his name 5 years after he's out of the league. He'll be forgotten almost immediately.

Ok guy.

[The Servant]

money > rings

Thats the reason why no one will ever really hear his name 5 years after he's out of the league. He'll be forgotten almost immediately.

Ok guy.

I'm an okc fan, what else would you expect?

[Soulyss]

Why are we dredging up year old threads?

[bovice]

money > rings

james harden is now realizing that, should have never left houston and he would have gotten his supermax

no matter where you go winning a championship is not a given

and they'll always find a reason to discredit you if you do win. it wasn't 'his team', he joined a stacked roster, the other team was injured, etc..

it's never enough. nba is rigged anyway, get your money

[monopoman]

I don't buy the "team loyalty" thing when it comes to Lillard.

He gets a lot of praise, while being part of the problem. His contract is an albatross to the point Portland can't build anything around him. Basically like Beal in Washington.

Is it their faults their teams are dumb enough to give them those contracts? No, but they aren't "loyal" for staying in a place that pay them double what anyone else can/will.

You act like he is paid this right now, he is not.

Right now Dame is the 14th highest paid player in the league, yes once this contract kicks in he will jump on that but many other teams have higher paid players and are able to build contenders.

https://sportsnaut.com/highest-paid-nba-players/

This contract also doesn't even kick in until the 2025-2026 season begins, so again we have him paid less than a good number of players until that season. The cap also will likely be higher by that season rolls around so at that time he will likely match what other star level players get.

[The Sebastian Express]

money > rings

james harden is now realizing that, should have never left houston and he would have gotten his supermax

no matter where you go winning a championship is not a given

and they'll always find a reason to discredit you if you do win. it wasn't 'his team', he joined a stacked roster, the other team was injured, etc..

it's never enough. nba is rigged anyway, get your money

There is no winning, you're right.

There's someone always complaining. Stay loyal get accused of being greedy. Leave for a ring, be accused of ring chasing.

Only one team wins each year.

Dame likes Portland. He likes living in Portland. He's built something here with his immediate family. He plays his ass off and he's paid well. He wants to win, he wants to do it his way. I don't get the issue from some of you. This is generational wealth we're talking about- he can like the money and still be loyal, those aren't competing ideas or ideologies. Not everyone wants to win by joining a stacked deck. Not everyone has a team where their superstar early on is often injured and takes a discounted salary because of the injury concerns. And not everyone is on a team with the greatest scouts. It would've been a lot easier if we had drafted Giannis over CJ in 2013, but we didn't. It sucks. It would've been a lot better if we had drafted Bam or Mitchell at 10 in 2017 instead of Collins. But we didn't. It sucks. It would've been great if we had not competed, as was expected, in 2015-2016, so we could've kept our pick and drafted another high lottery talent level.

We didn't, though. And it sucked.

Why, if he stays, and why if he takes the most money, is there something inherently selfish or nefarious behind that idea? Why does it mean he isn't really loyal? Why is it so bad he wants to try to win with his guys on his team his way?

You all so often beg for parity. He is attempting parity, whether successful or not.

[YogurtProducer]

money > rings

Thats the reason why no one will ever really hear his name 5 years after he's out of the league. He'll be forgotten almost immediately.

Yeah just like Charles Barkley

[Myth]

No wonder the Blazers cant afford a decent team, Dame eating up that cap.

Portland failed to build around him even when they had capspace. They spent seasons overpaying scrubs to stay too as they couldn’t draw stars (think Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, Meyers Leonard). Why take a pay cut when the team just wasted money at every turn. If we had $20M extra going into this offseason, what do you think Portland would have done with it? My guess: kept Josh Hart despite us being a 10th seed when we still had him. If that is the case, I’d take $20M extra per season too. Other teams spend just as much on stars and still have put better rosters around them.

Yes, Portland swung and missed plenty but so have many other teams. But the thing is you have to keep swinging and you have to make sure you're in a position to keep swinging. By Dame milking Portland for every penny he can, he took away the Blazers ability to keep swinging. Also, FA acquisitions aren't the only way cap space can be used to get better, Portland could potentially used that space to facilitate a trade. But again, Dame milked them for every penny he could, essentially taking Portland's chances of improving via FA or trade from low to not at all. Unless he's a complete moron (which I dont think he is at all) he knows full well that by him eating so much space his teams will never be able to compete for anything of significance.

Its easy for him to pretend to be loyal when he contributes to manufacturing the circumstance of being able to get every penny available, go into every season with zero expectations, get all his personal accolades and still be spoken in the same breath as elite players, all the while not having to face ANY pressure or criticism for lack of team success.

Portland was almost continuously so far over the cap throughout his career that the pay cuts he would have needed to give Portland more attempts to take swings would have by far been the biggest in NBA history.

Lets look year by year starting with his first non-rookie scale contract in 2016-17 (rounding)
2016-17
Cap $94M
Team payroll $120M
Lillard salary $24M
Lillard could have made $0 and the team would have still been over the cap

2017-18
Cap $99M
Team payroll $119M
Lillard $26M
Lillard would need to take $20M less just for the team to be at the cap. Would need to take a greater paycut to get below it.

2018-19
Cap $102M
Team payroll $130M
Lillard $28M
Lillard would have needed to forfeit his entire salary to get the team to the cap

2019-20
Cap $109M
Team payroll $132M
Lillard $30M
Lillard would have needed to take $23M off his $30M salary just to get to the cap. How much more of that remaining $7M would you ask him to give up to make a difference?

2020-21
Cap $109M
Team payroll $132M
Lillard $32M
Lillard would have needed to take $23M off his $32M salary just to get to the cap. How much more of that remaining $9M would you ask him to give up to make a difference?

2021-22
Cap $112M
Team payroll $125M
Lillard $39M
Lillard would have needed to leave behind $13M to get to the cap. This is the first year you could make a reasonable argument that he’d still be paid well for his talents if he took a paycut, but $26M for Lillard is a steal and it still only gets you to the cap. He’d have to take more for the franchise to truly be below the cap enough to do anything. It is also worth noting that this cap may take into account the mid-season cost cutting trades, and Lillard signed extensions before there was any sign that Portland was going to trade away 3 starters to cut costs.

2022-23
Cap $124M
Team payroll $145M
Lillard $43M
Blazers this summer was the first time the team had money below the cap after trading 3 starters and tanking mid season the year before, which they were able to use to land Grant. And their team still looks terrible. To have had more money to play with, Lillard would have needed to take more than a 50% paycut in advance with a team that was a lower seed expected to still be above the cap at the time of his extension.


But yes, keep pushing the narrative that Lillard’s contracts have been the issue with Portland.

[bovice]

There is no winning, you're right.

There's someone always complaining. Stay loyal get accused of being greedy. Leave for a ring, be accused of ring chasing.

Only one team wins each year.

Dame likes Portland. He likes living in Portland. He's built something here with his immediate family. He plays his ass off and he's paid well. He wants to win, he wants to do it his way. I don't get the issue from some of you. This is generational wealth we're talking about- he can like the money and still be loyal, those aren't competing ideas or ideologies. Not everyone wants to win by joining a stacked deck. Not everyone has a team where their superstar early on is often injured and takes a discounted salary because of the injury concerns. And not everyone is on a team with the greatest scouts. It would've been a lot easier if we had drafted Giannis over CJ in 2013, but we didn't. It sucks. It would've been a lot better if we had drafted Bam or Mitchell at 10 in 2017 instead of Collins. But we didn't. It sucks. It would've been great if we had not competed, as was expected, in 2015-2016, so we could've kept our pick and drafted another high lottery talent level.

We didn't, though. And it sucked.

Why, if he stays, and why if he takes the most money, is there something inherently selfish or nefarious behind that idea? Why does it mean he isn't really loyal? Why is it so bad he wants to try to win with his guys on his team his way?

You all so often beg for parity. He is attempting parity, whether successful or not.

it's insane to me how most people don't get it. we want to believe a player can overcome all challenges and win a ring and ignore all the factors that were out of that player's control. where you get drafted, the owner's willingness to pay luxury tax, what conference u play in, injuries, how well the team is built around you, and so much more have just as big of an impact as 1 individual player.

steph curry was making 11 mil a year when he won a championship. he was worth 35 mil easily that year. take 20 mil off a 4th or 5th seed team's best player and that team goes from 2nd round playoff team to contender with that extra cap space. i'm not taking anything away from steph, but that cap space let them build a deep team. barbosa and livingston were so important to those championship teams.

the buffalo bills are an outdoor, cold weather team yet they have a defense built for speed like theyre playing indoors (small linemen and linebackers). that defense isn't gonna win u games in the playoffs. the GM isn't building a team that plays to the strengths of their home field. but plebs that want easy explanations will say josh allen just isn't as good as mahomes/burrow.

i could go on and on with examples

[montaingne]

Portland should trade Dame to the Jazz. They need cap relief and assets and we have them.

[tamaraw08]

Almost everyone from both sides are making valid comments about this.
But what I would like to know is the actual conversation between management and Dame about this.
Did Dame insist on getting the superMax?
Did the management explain their future plans regarding their planS on how to acquire specific free agents who will perfectly complement Dame’s skill sets when his new contract gets enforced?
Is Dame willing to recruit other fellow stars so they can significantly increase their chances of winning it all?

[Revived]

I don't know how this guy did it, but he gets the benefit of being "loyal" with no expectations. More power to him, but Jesus, does any other player of his caliber get as many breaks as him when it comes to team success?

There was an NBA exec that said this the other day and it’s true, “it’s easy to be loyal when you’re making so much damn $$”.

If either Lillard or Beal were that committed to winning with Blazers/Wizards, I’d like to have seen either one take a paycut so that both teams can use that $$ to put a better team around them and compete.

At the end of the day neither Lillard or Beal are “loyal”….they simply decided to stay with the team that can pay them the most $$.

If it was so easy why are so many stars demanding trades and moving around? It's "so easy" to stay loyal yet Dame and Beal are the only players who have stuck around in a tough spot. Lots of players of their caliber have jumped around the league and avoided the bonus pay they could only be offered by their original team.

So you’re saying those players that jumped around probably weren’t as money hungry? I agree with that.

[Medbrat]

The Beal path. Nothing wrong with that, not like he's gonna be in top50 anyway.

[nikster]

There was an NBA exec that said this the other day and it’s true, “it’s easy to be loyal when you’re making so much damn $$”.

If either Lillard or Beal were that committed to winning with Blazers/Wizards, I’d like to have seen either one take a paycut so that both teams can use that $$ to put a better team around them and compete.

At the end of the day neither Lillard or Beal are “loyal”….they simply decided to stay with the team that can pay them the most $$.

If it was so easy why are so many stars demanding trades and moving around? It's "so easy" to stay loyal yet Dame and Beal are the only players who have stuck around in a tough spot. Lots of players of their caliber have jumped around the league and avoided the bonus pay they could only be offered by their original team.

So you’re saying those players that jumped around probably weren’t as money hungry? I agree with that.

If it was just about the money they could have easily signed the supermax then demanded out. It's what everyone expected, especially in Beals situation

[One Last Shot]

Blazers another bum franchise. Paying Dame as if he’s the 2nd coming of MJ. They literally paying him as if he won multiple championships or something. 60 million dollars a year for Damian Lillard is absurd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep pure insanity. People obsess about guys being loyal, but organizations need to know when to pull the plug. Lillard isnt worth that. In 10 years he has never won a single conference finals game and only been there once. This is idiocy by portland

This idiocy by Portland offering supermax extension to Lillard a year ago handed their team all this assets today. It's not that bad in my opinion and they are now in a better position to rebuild properly post-Dame era.


DeAndre Ayton
Timelord
Malcolm Brogdon
Toumani Camara
2024 Warriors First Round Pick(top 4 protected)
2029 Celtics First Round Pick(unprotected)
2029 Bucks First Round Pick(unprotected)
2028 Bucks First Round Pick swap
2030 Bucks First Round Pick swap

[theonlyclutch]

Blazers another bum franchise. Paying Dame as if he’s the 2nd coming of MJ. They literally paying him as if he won multiple championships or something. 60 million dollars a year for Damian Lillard is absurd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep pure insanity. People obsess about guys being loyal, but organizations need to know when to pull the plug. Lillard isnt worth that. In 10 years he has never won a single conference finals game and only been there once. This is idiocy by portland

This idiocy by Portland offering supermax extension to Lillard a year ago handed their team all this assets today. It's not that bad in my opinion and they are now in a better position to rebuild properly post-Dame era.


DeAndre Ayton
Timelord
Malcolm Brogdon
Toumani Camara
2024 Warriors First Round Pick(top 4 protected)
2029 Celtics First Round Pick(unprotected)
2029 Bucks First Round Pick(unprotected)
2028 Bucks First Round Pick swap
2030 Bucks First Round Pick swap

You do know that without the extension, Lillard was still under contract until the '25 season? I don't think an extension for Lillards age 36 and 37 seasons was going to be value additive in any case..

[One Last Shot]

Yep pure insanity. People obsess about guys being loyal, but organizations need to know when to pull the plug. Lillard isnt worth that. In 10 years he has never won a single conference finals game and only been there once. This is idiocy by portland

This idiocy by Portland offering supermax extension to Lillard a year ago handed their team all this assets today. It's not that bad in my opinion and they are now in a better position to rebuild properly post-Dame era.


DeAndre Ayton
Timelord
Malcolm Brogdon
Toumani Camara
2024 Warriors First Round Pick(top 4 protected)
2029 Celtics First Round Pick(unprotected)
2029 Bucks First Round Pick(unprotected)
2028 Bucks First Round Pick swap
2030 Bucks First Round Pick swap

You do know that without the extension, Lillard was still under contract until the '25 season? I don't think an extension for Lillards age 36 and 37 seasons was going to be value additive in any case..

You do know that Lillard have player option after 2023-2024 Season if he didn't sign an extension? Are you aware that Dame can tell every teams other than the Heat that "you can trade for me if you want but I won't sign a contract extension with your team and I will opt-out of my contract after the season to play in Miami".

You think the Bucks will offer Jrue + Allen + 3 unprotected 1st round draft picks for a 1-year rental of Dame?