replace stockton with prime isiah. do they beat the bulls

[formula 400]

since we're in the middle of the summer and things are slow, what do you guys think:

replace stockton with prime isiah. do they beat the bulls ?

i say yes. IT was more of a scorer and would get you buckets when needed. we saw him drop 25+ on showtime on 1 ankle the year right before he started winning

[Kingdibs19]

Yes. IT steps up on the big stage and especially against the Bulls.

[LloydFree]

Isaiah Thomas was a better basketball player and more a force than John Stockton, but he wouldn't have made Utah better. Stockton spoon fed Karl Malone, and made him better than he should have been. I think Utah would have been worse with Isaiah, but Detroit would have never even made an ECF, if Stockton was on the Pistons all of those years.

[MelTurpin]

You're comparing late career Stockton to prime Isiah, so, yeah, they'd get a bit of a bump. Stockton is the better player in his prime, however -- much more efficient than Thomas..

[cam24thomas]

Karl Malone would get the ball less, and Jordan/Pippen/Harper would force IT into bad shots, so the Bulls would win 4-0.

[sp6r=underrated]

The interesting question is whether they make the finals.

[Augusto61]

I think if they have him in his '17 prime they would have better offensive power against them, but he would be too much of a defensive liability imo.

[euroleague]

He was too short and not a very good playmaker. Not as good of a scorer as Malone, even in 17.

So, no…

[ken6199]

He was too short and not a very good playmaker. Not as good of a scorer as Malone, even in 17.

So, no…

Yep, that first name still get a lot of people these days. OP definitely meant Isiah.

[Stan]

Those series were so close, I think if you replace a past prime Stockton with a prime Isiah, they're winning at least one of those Finals, probably '98.

[canada_dry]

Absolutely **** not.

Stockton could not do what isiah did not could the bulls even DREAM of shutting Isiah down in the same pressing fashion they did Stockton in the finals.

Edit: i read that as replace isiah with Stockton onnthe pistons.

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[Tottery]

Nah. Bulls were just flat out better. Stockton was a pass first type of PG that made Malone look like a god at times. Malone averaged over 20 pts per game at the age of 39 in large part due to their pick & roll. You'd also be trading Stockton's defense for a few more buckets.

I think the better question is, if Stockton was in his prime in 97 or 98 could they have won? I feel like Stockton's peak years were between 1988 and 1992.

[Plutonashfan]

Why so some people think Isiah was some scrub passer. He would have fed Malone just like Stockton while getting his own. Dude was a primo passer. Also the hate between him and Jordan was real you don't think that would have factored in. I think the Jazz win one of the two.

[HollowEarth]

Nah. Bulls were just flat out better. Stockton was a pass first type of PG that made Malone look like a god at times. Malone averaged over 20 pts per game at the age of 39 in large part due to their pick & roll. You'd also be trading Stockton's defense for a few more buckets.

I think the better question is, if Stockton was in his prime in 97 or 98 could they have won? I feel like Stockton's peak years were between 1988 and 1992.

This is partly why I voted yes. Old Stockton kept it close. Prime Isaiah was comparable to prime Stockton, so swapping a fringe all-star for all-NBA first team could be enough to do it. It really is a very hypothetical question because we don't know how Sloan would have modified the offense or how Isaiah would have felt about Utah.

When Karl Malone had peak John Stockton, the team had no bench. It wasn't until the late 90's that Utah finally fleshed out a full team. So that deeper late 90's Jazz team with an all-NBA second option, would be the best team Karl Malone ever played on.

[Antinomy]

Zeke whipped Jordan’s ass 3 years in a row & only lost in 91 because the team had broken down + injuries.

Jazz were horrible outside of Stockton & Malone, so Zeke alone wouldn’t swing it.

Maybe if I’m allowed to swap out Hornacek for Joe Dumars too.

[cupcakesnake]

Stockton was the superior defender, passer, and shooter. Isiah has a stronger pull-up game and slightly better rim pressure.

I don't see this tradeoff being transformation for those Jazz teams. I think overall they're likely a little worse.

[cupcakesnake]

Zeke whipped Jordan’s ass 3 years in a row & only lost in 91 because the team had broken down + injuries.
.

The Pistons beat the Bulls 3 years in a row, but Isiah didn't have a standout series against Jordan. I can't see any argument for Isiah outplaying Jordan in any of those series. The Pistons were simply a much better team until they weren't anymore (1991 when Pippen and Grant were busting out as stars).

[Tottery]

Nah. Bulls were just flat out better. Stockton was a pass first type of PG that made Malone look like a god at times. Malone averaged over 20 pts per game at the age of 39 in large part due to their pick & roll. You'd also be trading Stockton's defense for a few more buckets.

I think the better question is, if Stockton was in his prime in 97 or 98 could they have won? I feel like Stockton's peak years were between 1988 and 1992.

This is partly why I voted yes. Old Stockton kept it close. Prime Isaiah was comparable to prime Stockton, so swapping a fringe all-star for all-NBA first team could be enough to do it. It really is a very hypothetical question because we don't know how Sloan would have modified the offense or how Isaiah would have felt about Utah.

When Karl Malone had peak John Stockton, the team had no bench. It wasn't until the late 90's that Utah finally fleshed out a full team. So that deeper late 90's Jazz team with an all-NBA second option, would be the best team Karl Malone ever played on.

This argument makes sense. Prime Stockton and Thomas were comparable, so I might change my mind lol.

[giberish]

Yeah, people forget how 'old' Stockton and Malone were before the Jazz finally became contenders. They should have been a dominant team in the 1988-1994 range but the rest of the roster was utter crap (not just the bench, they lacked even a 3rd useful starter).

Get prime Stockton and Malone a solid surrounding cast like Horny, Russell and even Ostertag and they win a couple titles and are in at least the conference finals every year.

Prime Stockton likely wins at least once (1998 being closer to begin with is the more likely one). Prime Isiah probably does as well (though a few more questions about fit). Replace Stockton with Isiah at the same age and they obviously aren't even in the finals.

[NeoDragonKnight]

Ya I agree with others, the problem wasn't Stock and Malone, you could replace either with other all time greats but their supporting cast was not great outside of Hornacek, the drop off in talent after those 3 is massive. When Bryon Russel and Adam Keefe are your next best players you are in trouble, especially when the bulls have players like rodman, kukoc, harper and even longley was solid. You replace some of those utah guys with elite role players and then we are talking.