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I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

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Knicks are in prove it territory. That team, with it's current roster, and head coach is not only a mediocre/bad team, but they are hamstrung with some horrific contracts attached to players, no one in the league wants.

If their current GM can actually move Randle, and Fournier, then you can have a conversation about how the Knicks have a competent front office.

The Randle contract goes thru 25/26 with a player option, and the Fournier one goes thru 24/25 with a team option just for reference.

They are in a bad spot, but can get out of it by truly pressing the reset button. Weaver did it in Detroit, and just two season ago, that absolute mess of a roster has now been transformed in one of the very best young cores in the league.

It can be done, but I fear the Knicks and the city just don't have the patience (2 years!) To truly do, what needs to be done.

I think they were wise to hold out on offering the boat here but they have their work cut out for them in terms of making a coherent roster. Many of the issues are of their own doing.

As I said in Knicks thread, im perfectly fine not getting fleeced and paying Ainges NY tax. My only concern is that this front office clearly does not have a back up plan. Their only plan ever is to go after CAA players. Kat, Booker, Zion all are locked up while Spida traded to Cavs. Whats the plan now? Go after the next 2 caa free agents, Wiggins and Dlo??

Im not buying into any plan unless Randle and Thibs GONE

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

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I don't think anyone really discounts Rose as an okay GM and he's definitely smarter than previous GMs the Knicks have had. That said, this is one that blew up in his face. He seemed to think of Ainge as some amateur and, at best, walked back value on the initial package he offered (assuming Woj isn't just covering for him to save face due to CAA ties).

But when you hoard picks like the Knicks have, you eventually must convert those into players. We'll see if the future players are better than Mitchell. That will be the testament of Rose's tenure.

As a Cavaliers fan, I 100% agree that the Knicks didn't really lose by not trading for Mitchell. Cleveland trading for him benefits them far more than it does New York. Cleveland is a playoff contender with an incredibly young core. New York does not have that same fortune.

CallMeKahn wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

I don't think anyone really discounts Rose as an okay GM and he's definitely smarter than previous GMs the Knicks have had. That said, this is one that blew up in his face. He seemed to think of Ainge as some amateur and, at best, walked back value on the initial package he offered (assuming Woj isn't just covering for him to save face due to CAA ties).

But when you hoard picks like the Knicks have, you eventually must convert those into players. We'll see if the future players are better than Mitchell. That will be the testament of Rose's tenure.

Walking away when Danny demanded we "up" this offer was a no brainer:



Only CallMeKahn would have tried to up that offer.

This said, nothing here yet suggests competence. The offer should not have been made in the first place--we would have been lottery-bound afterwards with all our frps going to Danny--and leaking it now only hurts player morale moving forward. Given last summer as well...I've soured on Leon and the crew.

zeebneeb wrote:Knicks are in prove it territory. That team, with it's current roster, and head coach is not only a mediocre/bad team, but they are hamstrung with some horrific contracts attached to players, no one in the league wants.

If their current GM can actually move Randle, and Fournier, then you can have a conversation about how the Knicks have a competent front office.

The Randle contract goes thru 25/26 with a player option, and the Fournier one goes thru 24/25 with a team option just for reference.

They are in a bad spot, but can get out of it by truly pressing the reset button. Weaver did it in Detroit, and just two season ago, that absolute mess of a roster has now been transformed in one of the very best young cores in the league.

It can be done, but I fear the Knicks and the city just don't have the patience (2 years!) To truly do, what needs to be done.

Randle signed for about $50 million less, Fournier is done in 1 year, wtf are you talking about my Dude?

CallMeKahn wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

___
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I don't think anyone really discounts Rose as an okay GM and he's definitely smarter than previous GMs the Knicks have had. That said, this is one that blew up in his face. He seemed to think of Ainge as some amateur and, at best, walked back value on the initial package he offered (assuming Woj isn't just covering for him to save face due to CAA ties).

But when you hoard picks like the Knicks have, you eventually must convert those into players. We'll see if the future players are better than Mitchell. That will be the testament of Rose's tenure.

That's true.
Cleveland was in position to make this trade for the betterment of their team.
DMitch wouldn't have made us a contender at this time, we need to continue our path.

taikibansei wrote:

CallMeKahn wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

I don't think anyone really discounts Rose as an okay GM and he's definitely smarter than previous GMs the Knicks have had. That said, this is one that blew up in his face. He seemed to think of Ainge as some amateur and, at best, walked back value on the initial package he offered (assuming Woj isn't just covering for him to save face due to CAA ties).

But when you hoard picks like the Knicks have, you eventually must convert those into players. We'll see if the future players are better than Mitchell. That will be the testament of Rose's tenure.

Walking away when Danny demanded we "up" this offer was a no brainer:

Read on Twitter

Only CallMeKahn would have tried to up that offer.

This said, nothing here yet suggests competence. The offer should not have been made in the first place--we would have been lottery-bound afterwards with all our frps going to Danny--and leaking it now only hurts player morale moving forward. Given last summer as well...I've soured on Leon and the crew.

If that's true, then it's on danny for not taking this offer. That was honestly a good deal for Utah, but I guess he was fixated on more picks

Pretty dumb move on his part.

I'm glad they didn't do this trade. Mitchell's fit with Cleveland is better because they have a stout frontcourt to clean up the backcourt's defensive deficiencies.

Now, its on Thibodeau and its on the front office to make significant playing time for the young guys.

The Knicks are still in play for the 2025 and 2026 free agency. In 2025, Randle should be easy to move. I don't see how their cap situation is bad.

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

___
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Showing more restraint than previous members of the Knicks front office doesn't make you "competent" and certainly doesn't mean you're destined to "build an actual contender."

anotherhomer wrote:

taikibansei wrote:

CallMeKahn wrote:
I don't think anyone really discounts Rose as an okay GM and he's definitely smarter than previous GMs the Knicks have had. That said, this is one that blew up in his face. He seemed to think of Ainge as some amateur and, at best, walked back value on the initial package he offered (assuming Woj isn't just covering for him to save face due to CAA ties).

But when you hoard picks like the Knicks have, you eventually must convert those into players. We'll see if the future players are better than Mitchell. That will be the testament of Rose's tenure.

Walking away when Danny demanded we "up" this offer was a no brainer:

Read on Twitter

Only CallMeKahn would have tried to up that offer.

This said, nothing here yet suggests competence. The offer should not have been made in the first place--we would have been lottery-bound afterwards with all our frps going to Danny--and leaking it now only hurts player morale moving forward. Given last summer as well...I've soured on Leon and the crew.

If that's true, then it's on danny for not taking this offer. That was honestly a good deal for Utah, but I guess he was fixated on more picks

Pretty dumb move on his part.

My point exactly. Moreover, I've been against the Mitchell trade from the beginning because 1) we didn't have the assets to make the trade and remain competitive afterward, and 2) Mitchell would have been a horrible fit with what remained (Brunson and Randle) of our roster. That no-defense awkward offense squad would have been a lottery team...so basically we'd have been gifting Danny three lottery picks at least in exchange for Mitchell and years of misery. No thanks!

As I've posted, I think the Cavs got a great deal, so well done on them.

FOH

BK_2020 wrote:The Knicks are still in play for the 2025 and 2026 free agency. In 2025, Randle should be easy to move. I don't see how their cap situation is bad.

It's not. Now, we just have to hit some draft picks and search for bargains (instead of continuing to bid high for meh quality). We'll see if Leon and the gang are up to it.

Maybe? I'm confused. They make some good moves, but then and go and give money to someone like Fournier...

Let’s not go that far. Their past two off seasons were completely mediocre. They were smart not to trade for Mitchell but trading away a lottery pick for a bunch of protected firsts and the major summer acquisition being Brunson is pretty bad.

Duffman100 wrote:Maybe? I'm confused. They make some good moves, but then and go and give money to someone like Fournier...

That's what I meant when I referred above to last summer. They had a really bad start...and I'm not sure saying no to Danny's insane demands means they've gotten better. If anything, it looks like Danny saved Leon from himself (by getting pissed at Leon and trading elsewhere...).

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I think that past versions of the Knicks would have traded almost every asset for a borderline top25 player who is an undersized SG fitting poorly with the PG theh just signed.
Patience and ability to draw a line and not pass it are underrated skills. I think that, if Dolan will nost cave to the media pressure and avoid stepping in, Leon Rose will manage to build an actual contender, something the NYK haven't been in 25 years (being generous).

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Glad I didnt have to create this OP, because I have within the last 15 months to let the general board know that we have people in charge who actually KNOW WHAT THE F*** THEY ARE DOING.


Leon Rose points his focus at Shai Gilgeous Alexander.