RealGM

Create a 15 man roster that could be a contender

Obviously it's very easy to make a great defensive team, but can you create enough offense with a team of players that averaged less than 10ppg for their career?

To help, you're getting the player at their peak

The rules are simple

- Player can't be averaging or have averaged more than 10ppg for their career
- Can't be a rookie
- 3 players from each traditional position
- Coach and Assistant Coach also have to be under 10ppg career average
_____________________________________________________________________

I'm going with

Dikembe Mutombo/Ben Wallace/Joakim Noah
Dennis Rodman/Draymond Green/Boris Diaw
Robert Horry/Shane Battier/PJ Tucker
Marco Belinelli/Tony Allen/Kyle Korver
Rajon Rondo/Derek Fisher/Patty Mills

Coach: Phil Jackson
Assistant coach: Pat Riley

Even with that GOAT level of defense & rebounding, I still don't see them as being the favourites without any real go to scorers. I made sure to have a number of guys who could at least make big shots if the game was close

To help, here are some other suggestions you could use

AC Green
Ronnie Brewer
Bruce Bowen
Tyson Chandler
Marcus Camby
PJ Brown
Alex Caruso
Michael Cooper
Jae Crowder
Bobby Jackson
Mark Jackson
Dale Davis
Hubert Davis
Mario Elie
Taj Gibson
JaMychal Green
Udonis Haslem
Joe Ingles
Avery Johnson
Shaun Livingstone
Nate McMillan
Jamaal Magloire
Charles Oakley
Greg Oden
James Posey
Gary Payton II
Theo Ratliff
Lance Stephenson
Thabo Sefolosha

Edit 1: Some players I hadn't added to the original list above
Raja Bell
Brandon Bass
DeMarre Carroll
José Calderón
Michael Cage
Tony Delk
Dale Davis
Samuel Dalembert
Dorian Finney-Smith
Marcin Gortat
Eddie House
DeAndre Jordan
Nenad Krstić
C.J. Miles
John Salmons
Jamaal Tinsley


Edit 2:

As the consensus is that you can't build a team using those guidelines, I've added players up to 12ppg below, which now makes it very possible. Crazy how just a 2 point increase can allow so much more offensively talented players into the mix. Also keep in mind I could be missing a number of players as I just went through and searched manually for these guys (couldn't find a list of all time average score in order)

Jarrett Allen
OG Anunoby
Trevor Ariza
Avery Bradley
Mikal Bridges
Jalen Brunson
Leandro Barbosa
Nicolas Batum
Lonzo Ball
Dell Curry
Seth Curry
Robert Covington
Calbert Cheaney
Doug Christie
Elden Campbell
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Vlade Divac
Mike Dunleavy
Antonio Davis
LaPhonso Ellis
Kenneth Faried
Derrick Favors
Raymond Felton
T.J. Ford
Enes Freedom
Drew Gooden
Brian Grant
Horace Grant
Jerami Grant
Danny Green
Chris Gatling
Richaun Holmes
Roy Hibbert
Nenê
Kirk Hinrich
George Hill
Kevin Huerter
Jay Humphries
Gary Harris
Joe Harris
Devin Harris
Matt Harpring
Andre Iguodala
Ersan İlyasova
Vinnie Johnson
Mike James
Jerome Kersey
Andrei Kirilenko
Toni Kukoč
Raef LaFrentz
Voshon Lenard
Darius Miles
Derrick McKey
Antonio McDyess
Markieff Morris
Brad Miller
Mike Miller
Terry Mills
Donyell Marshall
Anthony Mason
Dan Majerle
Jameer Nelson
Andrés Nocioni
Otto Porter Jr.
Tayshaun Prince
Terrence Ross
Ricky Rubio
Quentin Richardson
Anfernee Simons
Joe Smith
Marcus Smart
Scott Skiles
Luis Scola
Dario Šarić
Arvydas Sabonis
Tim Thomas
Hedo Türkoğlu
Norm Van Lier
Charlie Villanueva
Clarence Weatherspoon
Gerald Wallace

Lance Stephenson is probably the best scorer listed and therefore he’s a must on the team.

Nope I can’t. And neither can you from looking at the roster you put together.. you have a fringe playoff team. Can you at least make it 13 ppg or something?

My first thought was ROndo at PG, but then I strated to get greedy and figured I will check Jason Kidds and Arvydas Sabonis' career overages... over 12 ppg. damn it

Ben Wallace
Robert Horry
Reggie Bullock
Kyle Korver
Patty Mills

And just beat the NBA record for 3s attempted running Korver and to a lesser extent Bullock off screens. Have Bullock screen for Korver on the weak side. Have Korver attempt at least 15 3s a game.

Big Ben, Horry and Bullock gives you a solid defensive foundation, with still the ability to run a 4-out offense.

A contender in which era? You can assemble a super bad boy version of Detriot, fragant foul the other team's top 1-2 scorers, and play slow down half court offence.

otterpop_ wrote:Nope I can’t. And neither can you from looking at the roster you put together.. you have a fringe playoff team. Can you at least make it 13 ppg or something?

Even allowing up to 11ppg would get you a number of better scorers but I wanted to make it difficult.

My best shot with that team is that whilst they lack a go to scorer, they’re going to make it hell for the opponent to try and score, dominate the boards both in limiting second chances and creating 2nd chances and teams won’t be doing much in the paint against them

kenwood3333 wrote:A contender in which era?

Any season from 2000 onwards

Chanel Bomber wrote:Ben Wallace
Robert Horry
Reggie Bullock
Kyle Korver
Patty Mills

And just beat the NBA record for 3s attempted running Korver and to a lesser extent Bullock off screens. Have Bullock screen for Korver on the weak side. Have Korver attempt at least 15 3s a game.

Big Ben, Horry and Bullock gives you a solid defensive foundation, with still the ability to run a 4-out offense.

Not really. You can’t have just pure shooters without anyone to create offense. Teams will just dare Patty Mills to drive to the basket if he tries to run PnR. Nobody on this team can create his own shot or shots for others.

Even if you did all defensive wizards there’s no way you could do this. Like maybe if you said 1 player could be 15ppg career average it might be a little easier

vxmike wrote:

Chanel Bomber wrote:Ben Wallace
Robert Horry
Reggie Bullock
Kyle Korver
Patty Mills

And just beat the NBA record for 3s attempted running Korver and to a lesser extent Bullock off screens. Have Bullock screen for Korver on the weak side. Have Korver attempt at least 15 3s a game.

Big Ben, Horry and Bullock gives you a solid defensive foundation, with still the ability to run a 4-out offense.

Not really. You can’t have just pure shooters without anyone to create offense. Teams will just dare Patty Mills to drive to the basket if he tries to run PnR. Nobody on this team can create his own shot or shots for others.

The Pacers of the 1990s were a contender mostly because of the massive advantage in efficiency that Reggie Miller provided, in addition to their defense. Neither Miller nor Mark Jackson was a shot creator, and arguably their only off-the-dribble threat was Jalen Rose as a 6th man. Patty Mills can take on the playmaker role - he's a more versatile scorer in the halfcourt than Mark was anyway. The Pacers were the precedent I had in mind.

It's obviously challenging to build a contender with those limitations but the best shot is to build a team that can make an outrageous amount of 3s and hold their own defensively.

otterpop_ wrote:Nope I can’t. And neither can you from looking at the roster you put together.. you have a fringe playoff team. Can you at least make it 13 ppg or something?

That team built would have one of the greatest defensive front courts we’ve ever seen in league history. I don’t think they could win it all because you ultimately need someone to get you a bucket, and this team doesn’t have that.

It’s way better than a fringe playoff team though.

Pythagoras wrote:

otterpop_ wrote:Nope I can’t. And neither can you from looking at the roster you put together.. you have a fringe playoff team. Can you at least make it 13 ppg or something?

That team built would have one of the greatest defensive front courts we’ve ever seen in league history. I don’t think they could win it all because you ultimately need someone to get you a bucket, and this team doesn’t have that.

It’s way better than a fringe playoff team though.

Top contender for the #1 pick u mean?

You dont have to guard Rodman or Rondo or Mutombo. Horry cant create his own shot. Marco Belinelli to score 80pts a game?

Nope, great defense will only get you so far. Offense beats defense. You could assemble a team of the greatest defenders ever, and they won't hold modern teams under 75ppg consistently... which is what you'd have to do to offset the absolutely horrific offense that you get from a team with this criteria.

mynameKIM wrote:

Pythagoras wrote:

otterpop_ wrote:Nope I can’t. And neither can you from looking at the roster you put together.. you have a fringe playoff team. Can you at least make it 13 ppg or something?

That team built would have one of the greatest defensive front courts we’ve ever seen in league history. I don’t think they could win it all because you ultimately need someone to get you a bucket, and this team doesn’t have that.

It’s way better than a fringe playoff team though.

Top contender for the #1 pick u mean?

You dont have to guard Rodman or Rondo or Mutombo. Horry cant create his own shot. Marco Belinelli to score 80pts a game?

The front court has three Hall of Famers and 12 total DPOY awards collectively between them all. As I said before, they’re not going to be able to score enough to be a serious contender but that’s easily a playoff team.

Here's how I'm assembling mine:

First order of business is making this the best defensive team of all-time.

Second order of business is generating offense in unique ways. We hang our hat on all-time defense, so we'll need players who can turn that defense into offense in a hurry. Easy transition buckets.

But we'll still need to create out of the half court.

Some names start to stand out given those priorities:


CENTER

While Zeke and Big Ben are wonderful players who bring all-time defense and rebounding to the table, neither serves my team's needs nearly as well as my starting center: Joakim Noah.

Prime Noah was a beast. A super mobile KG-type defender fit to anchor a modern defense, he also served as the fulcrum of a slow-as-molasses Thibodeau half-court offense, dishing out 5.4 apg in the absence of Derrick Rose en-route to 48 wins.

Thankfully our coach (more on that later) won't ask Noah to play at said molasses pace, and Noah loves to get out in transition. But his half-court creativity will be needed when the game slows down.

Inspiration board:



POWER FORWARD

My power forward is built in a similar mould: Draymond Green.

We've been living with a diminished Draymond for so long that I think we forget just how good Prime Draymond was at all facets of the game.

Prime Dray shot the three ball at 39%, averaged 7.4 assists, and was probably the most impactful overall defender in the NBA.

Like Noah, he could lead a half-court offense and drive heroically to the rim for some impressive finishes.


WINGS

I have a pretty clear wishlist for my wings: elite defense, excellent shooting, proven ability to fill the lane/run the break, and the versatility to score and create in the half-court.

Two guys give me all of those things: 7x champion Robert Horry and former Defensive Player of the Year Michael Cooper.

Perhaps the greatest role-player of all-time, I don't have to enumerate everything Horry brings to the table. But it's worth pointing out we're talking about the young Horry here -- big and mobile, dunking everything, a gazelle on the break, everywhere on defense, in the passing lanes and on the weak side blocking shots, distributing the rock at 4 apg.

And, oh, maybe hitting a few clutch shots here and there.

As for my other wing: a very good shooter and likely the best perimeter defender of his era (a mantel he took from Sidney Moncrief), Prime Cooper was also a superb athlete who filled the lane like few others could. In his free time he dished out 7.4 apg per 36 minutes while rarely coughing up the ball, on a team that featured the best floor general of all-time.


POINT GUARD

Given the available options, this one is the biggest layup: Rajon Rondo

Rondo's well-known struggles shooting the ball will hamstring this team, but his strengths make him a better pick than any of the other options.

In his prime, Rondo was both the NBA's best distributor and its best defender at point. A wizard in the half-court and transition both.

And, like everyone in this lineup, a ferocious competitor.


FINAL STARTERS

Joakim Noah
Draymond Green
Robert Horry
Michael Cooper
Rajon Rondo

Coach: Pat Riley
Assistant: Steve Kerr

A team that relies heavily on its all-time defensive identity, all-out transition attack, physicality and size, all-time distributors at the big and point positions, and an overall winning pedigree.

While I'm not giving this as much thought, I would fill out the bench with guys who fit that mould and/or are so exceptional that they demand a roster spot: Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Shane Battier, Joe Ingles, Tony Allen, Mark Jackson, Derek Fisher.

Plus Bobby Jackson and Lance Stephenson for guys who can create their own offense and were also solid defenders.

I do think this team would compete for a championship, though it may well fall short against a superstar-laden competitor.

Bogut, Dikembe, Noah
Draymond, Rodman, AC Green
Ingles, Horry, PJ Tucker
Elie, Korver, Bellineli
Rondo, Livingston, Mills

Not possible. And it's mostly just math. All those great players couldn't score over 10 ppg in starter minutes. So you if you give them bench minutes, that drops to maybe 6. Even with a 10 man rotations, that's 50 ppg from starters and 30 from the bench. You can't hold teams under 80 ppg.

FreeThrowLine wrote:

otterpop_ wrote:Nope I can’t. And neither can you from looking at the roster you put together.. you have a fringe playoff team. Can you at least make it 13 ppg or something?

Even allowing up to 11ppg would get you a number of better scorers but I wanted to make it difficult.

My best shot with that team is that whilst they lack a go to scorer, they’re going to make it hell for the opponent to try and score, dominate the boards both in limiting second chances and creating 2nd chances and teams won’t be doing much in the paint against them

Your team is not well built though. You've clogged the paint with big guys who can't shoot and have in the process rendered Rondo pretty useless. Then you have Marco Belinelli, who could never find his niche in the NBA (he was always the "not quite good enough at creating", "not quite deadly enough of a spot-up shooter" guy), as the guy who'd be relied on to get buckets, on a team that's supposed to be "contending" no less. My guess is you're planning to insert this team in the 2004 Pistons era.. but even that team had guys who could get buckets on broken plays in Sheed, Rip and Billups.

I feel like this would be a very interesting question at ~15ppg