RealGM

Once again, I am carrying the torch for Filthadelphia's annual Top 25 Player poll this offseason.

Your favorite offseason debate is back by popular demand!
Thanks to everyone who voted last go around I'm excited to see where the 5th annual edition ends up.

Here are the Rules:
-Vote ONE player per poll. You'll be able to change your vote just like in previous years so you can self-implement rank choice voting.
-The criteria of ranking the players is YOUR OWN. The whole point of bringing this to the GB is to attract the widest amount of votes/perspectives on the game as possible to form a true consensus. Some people value shooting over defense, team success over individual prowess etc. Filthadelphia wanted to bake all that into this poll set no matter how chaotic.
-Each poll a player will win and then be taken out of the field. There will be 25 polls in all.
-There are only 10 possible poll options so I will start with last year's Top 10.
-As each poll commences I ask you to COMMENT IN THE THREAD your vote for who should be added in the next poll. There will be a large list of players yet to be added to the field below that you can look over to make your vote. I will tally up the votes in the comments at the end of each poll and add the winner accordingly. For example, if you want Xavier Tillman added in the next poll just comment "Nominate: Xavier Tillman"
-If a poll is overwhelmingly skewed towards one guy I will try, time willing, to edit it early and move on to the next one.
-If there is a tie in the poll. There will be a run-off poll created with just the tying parties to determine a winner. The losers of the runoff will then be added back into the field of 10 for the next poll.
-Feel free to ask any questions via pm or comment
-Feel Free to comment on your reasoning for a pick and why
There may be days when I am not able to quickly add the next poll. Just be patient!

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE FOR PARTICIPATING!!!!

Winner of Previous Poll: Chris Paul (PHX)
Added to Poll: Draymond Green (GSW)

RealGM Top 25 Players 2022-23:
1) Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL) - 57%
2) Nikola Jokic (DEN) - 57%
3) Luka Doncic (DAL) - 43%
4) Steph Curry (GSW) - 49%
5) Joel Embiid (PHI) - 37%
6) Kevin Durant (BKN) - 40%
7) LeBron James (LAL) - 44%
8) Kawhi Leonard (LAC) - 46%
9) Jayson Tatum (BOS) - 51%
10) Jimmy Butler (MIA) - 53%
11) Ja Morant (MEM) - 23%
12) Anthony Davis (LAL) - 28%
13) Rudy Gobert (MIN) - 24%
14) Paul George (LAC) - 19% (Tiebreaker: 62%)
15) James Harden (PHI) - 23%
16) Devin Booker (PHX) - 27%
17) Damian Lillard (POR) - 34%
18) Trae Young (ATL) - 25%
19) Karl-Anthony Towns (MIN) - 33%
20) Pascal Siakam (TOR) - 40%
21) Jaylen Brown (BOS) - 30%
22) Chris Paul (PHX) - 25%

Yet To Be Added: (If someone is not here that you want here comment THAT and I will add them)
John Collins (ATL)
Dejounte Murray (ATL)
Ben Simmons (BKN)
Gordon Hayward (CHA)
LaMelo Ball (CHA)
Zach Lavine (CHI)
Jarrett Allen (CLE)
Evan Mobley (CLE)
Jamal Murray(DEN)
Cade Cunningham (DET)
Jaden Ivey (DET)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
Andrew Wiggins (GSW)
Jalen Green (HOU)
Jabari Smith (HOU)
Myles Turner (IND)
Tyrese Haliburton (IND)
John Wall (LAC)
Russell Westbrook (LAL)
Jaren Jackson Jr. (MEM)
Desmond Bane (MEM)
Dillon Brooks (MEM)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Jrue Holiday (MIL)
CJ McCollum (NOP)
R.J. Barrett (NYK)
Jalen Brunson (NYK)
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (OKC)
Paolo Banchero (ORL)
Franz Wagner (ORL)
Wendell Carter (ORL)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Tyrese Maxey (PHI)
DeAndre Ayton (PHX)
Mikal Bridges (PHX)
Jusuf Nurkic (POR)
Jerami Grant (POR)
De'Aaron Fox (SAC)
Domantas Sabonis (SAC)
Keegan Murray (SAC)
Fred VanVleet (TOR)
Scottie Barnes (TOR)
Collin Sexton (UTA)
Kristaps Porzingis (WAS)

Previous Results:

Vote: Zion
Nominate: SGA

Vote: Draymond Green. Draymond Green has as much defensive impact as Gobert. He's obviously not quite as good in the paint, but much more versatile. On offense, he's much better than what the 7/7/7 stats show. He's an offensive hub. He knows how to rn the offense, he knows where to be, and he sets the picks that make the whole thing work. I don't understand how Gobert is (rightfully) 13th but Dray is just now entering the conversation.

Nominate: Jrue Holiday. Of the Top 11 players using 538's RAPTOR metric, 10 have already secured their spot in the RealGM Top 25...ALL of them in the top 13 except for poor lonely Jrue.

Top 11 RAPTOR (RealGM Top 25 ranking)
1. Jokic (2nd)
2. Antetokounmpo (1st)
3. Embiid (5th)
4. Gobert (13th)
5. Curry (4th)
6. Doncic (3rd)
7. Butler (10th)
8. Tatum (9th)
9. Holiday (Where art thou?)
10. James (7th)
11. Durant (6th)

Voted Zion
Nominate LaVine

Vote Zion. Nominate Holiday.

Vote: DeRozan

Nominate: Holiday

Vote: Zion
Nom: SGA

Let's just get Zion over with. He's the last guy on this list who brings that crazy high end value that you build a whole team around. The rest of these guys are either less valuable offensive pieces or high-end complimentary players. (I think Ant has a chance to leapfrog a ton of people this year but he hasn't taken that leap yet, so I still need more proof).

I love Draymond. He's a defensive genius and the main piece of a defense that has produced 4 championships. But no way I'm drafting Draymond over Zion right now. I'm ready to go Draymond over a number of these guys, but not Zion. Bam is another interesting one in terms of what he brings defensively.

I think SGA is a top 5 guard in the league. Holiday is a very good pick too.

I don't agree with Zion being voted as #23 ahead of some of the more established and still incredibly productive players on this list, but I can get behind it considering this age and production when 'considered healthy'.

From a personal standpoint I'd absolutely vote Derozan and Edwards ahead of him and probably even Mitchell.

I hope Zion does enough this year to warrant this selection.

I hope Zion is great, but with his injury history I feel like we're voting him based on just potential. Kind of like putting a new draft pick in the top 25. I know he's been great in the league already, but it feels like eons ago.

Vote Donovan.
Nominate Jrue.

ElectricMayhem wrote:Vote: Draymond Green. Draymond Green has as much defensive impact as Gobert. He's obviously not quite as good in the paint, but much more versatile. On offense, he's much better than what the 7/7/7 stats show. He's an offensive hub. He knows how to rn the offense, he knows where to be, and he sets the picks that make the whole thing work. I don't understand how Gobert is (rightfully) 13th but Dray is just now entering the conversation.

Nominate: Jrue Holiday. Of the Top 11 players using 538's RAPTOR metric, 10 have already secured their spot in the RealGM Top 25...ALL of them in the top 13 except for poor lonely Jrue.

Top 11 RAPTOR (RealGM Top 25 ranking)
1. Jokic (2nd)
2. Antetokounmpo (1st)
3. Embiid (5th)
4. Gobert (13th)
5. Curry (4th)
6. Doncic (3rd)
7. Butler (10th)
8. Tatum (9th)
9. Holiday (Where art thou?)
10. James (7th)
11. Durant (6th)

Jrue's stat numbers are boosted by all the terrible minutes we had with minimal or incompetent playmaking. Guessing the same stats rate George Hill very high in the minutes he played too and he's pretty washed. Bucks leaked a lot of points last season through non NBA players at the point of attack on both ends.

Vote Zion

Nominate Middleton. Jrue might be better in the regular season but Mids tries a lot more than usual in the playoffs on D and his shooting doesn't fall off a cliff like Holiday after trh regular season.

V: Mitchell
N: SGA

Shai, Jrue, Lavine and Khriddleton are as good or better than most of the guys who are already in the poll.

I know that rankings can result in this. You can have 10-20 players in a nebulous tier that are hard to rank, and end up with 2 similar players ranked 10 spots apart.

But I reallllllly don't get seeing Demar Derozan (and maybe Brad Beal) making the poll before these 3. I get that Beal puts up big numbers and Derozan just had a really cool regular season, but... these are 2 really bad defenders. Beal has been injured and toiling away in obscurity and Derozan we know to be a total paper tiger. I think both players belong in this tier of top 30ish players, but Jrue and Middleton are versatile playoff beasts and Shai is straight up just a better player than Derozan or Beal. Beal's one real edge over Shai is supposed to be shooting, but Beal hasn't shot the ball well in 4 years. I'm not punishing Beal for being on a bad team (even if he's chosen that path a little more than Shai), I'm just talking basketball ability. Shai is quicker, a way better interior player, a stronger defender, and a more efficient passer despite playing without good shooters or finishers. Derozan... I just don't get why people can't give up on the idea that a non-shooting, non-defender is just not that valuable in the NBA when it comes to winning.

Anyways, those 4 names are the ones that stick out to me as must-nominates left on the list. I think they all should have made the list before Beal and Demar.

Vote: Ant. I trust him making a leap more than I trust Zion if I'm going with an upside pick

Nom: Lavine. I would vote for SGA if he got traded

I like Garland, Bam and Zion here.

V Zion
N SGA

SGA is better than a lot of the guys getting votes right now.

Vote: Edwards, Nom: SGA

Vote Mitchell, nominate LaMelo