2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread

Moderators: bwgood77, KingDavid, Domejandro, cupcakesnake, Harry Garris, ken6199, infinite11285, zimpy27, bisme37, Dirk

Which 3 rookies impress you the most?

Paolo Banchero
210
35%
Bennedict Mathurin
159
26%
Keegan Murray
44
7%
Jaden Ivey
68
11%
Jabari Smith
6
1%
Jalen Duren
18
3%
Shaedon Sharpe
34
6%
Jeremy Sochan
18
3%
Tari Eason
14
2%
Other
36
6%
 
Total votes: 607

CraftylikeaFox
Rookie
Posts: 1,100
And1: 1,472
Joined: Dec 19, 2018
   

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1061 » by CraftylikeaFox » Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:47 am

This rookie class looks stacked right now.

Banchero looks like a future superstar.

Mathurin and Ivey have flashed star potential.

Kessler, Jabari, and Jalen Williams look like they could be stars or at least high end starters.

Murray, AJ Griffin, and Nembhard look like future high end starters.

Guys like Sochan, Mark Williams, Eason, Duren, and Dyson Daniels have looked good too.

Just a lot of talent all around
User avatar
Mr Peanut
Rookie
Posts: 1,192
And1: 1,121
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
Location: New Zealand
 

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1062 » by Mr Peanut » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:27 am

76ciology wrote:Im a big fan of Kessler. I sound like a Jazz fan already in our message board.

Another guy who’s under the radar is Mark Williams. Elite length, very mobile and athletic, great in stocks, great roll man/finished and even shows great touch at perimeter.

Mark Williams is everything what Jalen Duren wants to be.


Maybe we can judge Mark Williams more fairly when is playing more than 13 MPG vs backups.
Mavrelous
General Manager
Posts: 8,299
And1: 4,986
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1063 » by Mavrelous » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:43 am

AJ Griffin yesterday hit pro level shots, one time he ISO on the perimeter and pull up off the dribble and hit it, looks like a really good player.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 55,920
And1: 19,829
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1064 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:50 am

Mr Peanut wrote:
76ciology wrote:Im a big fan of Kessler. I sound like a Jazz fan already in our message board.

Another guy who’s under the radar is Mark Williams. Elite length, very mobile and athletic, great in stocks, great roll man/finished and even shows great touch at perimeter.

Mark Williams is everything what Jalen Duren wants to be.


Maybe we can judge Mark Williams more fairly when is playing more than 13 MPG vs backups.




Sengun is a back-up?
“If we have data, let’s look at data. If all we have are opinions, let’s go with mine”.-Jim Barksdale

Truth fears no examination
User avatar
Mr Peanut
Rookie
Posts: 1,192
And1: 1,121
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
Location: New Zealand
 

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1065 » by Mr Peanut » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:56 am

76ciology wrote:
Mr Peanut wrote:
76ciology wrote:Im a big fan of Kessler. I sound like a Jazz fan already in our message board.

Another guy who’s under the radar is Mark Williams. Elite length, very mobile and athletic, great in stocks, great roll man/finished and even shows great touch at perimeter.

Mark Williams is everything what Jalen Duren wants to be.


Maybe we can judge Mark Williams more fairly when is playing more than 13 MPG vs backups.




Sengun is a back-up?


The majority of his minutes are against backups. I'm not saying he hasn't looked impressive, but there's such a small sample size of data so far.

Duren is averaging an efficient double-double as a starter and is already statistically one of the best rebounders in the league. He's also 2 years younger than Williams.
User avatar
mcmurphy
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,748
And1: 1,349
Joined: Mar 06, 2009
Location: Milan-Italy
   

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1066 » by mcmurphy » Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:48 pm

in the rookie ladder on nba.com they begin to notice Kessler too

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-18-2023-edition
Duke4life831
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 31,850
And1: 56,912
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
 

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1067 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:44 pm

mcmurphy wrote:in the rookie ladder on nba.com they begin to notice Kessler too

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-18-2023-edition

They have Mathurin as the 4th best defensive rookie so far? That screams to me that whoever did this defensive ranking hasn’t watched these guys too often and just went and looked at basic stats like Defensive Rating. Mathurin has been horrible on that end, even most Pacers fans will admit he’s horrible on that end.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 24,306
And1: 14,226
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1068 » by Colbinii » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:25 pm

Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.

penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


Circa 2018
E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.


Circa 2022
G35 wrote:Lebron is not that far off from WB in trade value.
Bank Shot
RealGM
Posts: 13,998
And1: 8,337
Joined: Jun 24, 2007
Location: NYC

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1069 » by Bank Shot » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:27 pm

Mathurin's rep is really living off that hot start. I'm Canadian, so I'm cheering for him, but he's been pretty bad for a while now. Kessler is a much better player at the moment.
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 15,334
And1: 4,943
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1070 » by slick_watts » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:37 pm

if jalen williams gets that shot together the sky is the limit. his length is insane.
Duke4life831
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 31,850
And1: 56,912
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
 

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1071 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:25 pm

Colbinii wrote:Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.


Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 24,306
And1: 14,226
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1072 » by Colbinii » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:26 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.


Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.


I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.

penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


Circa 2018
E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.


Circa 2022
G35 wrote:Lebron is not that far off from WB in trade value.
Mephariel
Rookie
Posts: 1,031
And1: 1,173
Joined: Jun 24, 2018
   

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1073 » by Mephariel » Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:30 am

What a game from Keegan Murray:

User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 55,920
And1: 19,829
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1074 » by 76ciology » Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:06 am

Colbinii wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.


Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.


I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.


How does Duren has a higher offense floor? Williams has better pts per 36 and shows more promise as a shooter.

And defensively, Williams projects to be an elite rim protector, elite in deflections and elite rebounder.

I know how impressive Duren’s physique and athleticism is. But Mark Williams’ got elite length (he’s got a longer standing reach than Bol bol) and has great mobility and athleticism for his size.
“If we have data, let’s look at data. If all we have are opinions, let’s go with mine”.-Jim Barksdale

Truth fears no examination
RRR3
Senior
Posts: 746
And1: 1,278
Joined: May 26, 2019
   

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1075 » by RRR3 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:38 am

Colbinii wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.


Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.


I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

Kessler is a top 20 center now, weird comment.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 24,306
And1: 14,226
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1076 » by Colbinii » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:08 pm

RRR3 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.


I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

Kessler is a top 20 center now, weird comment.


I don't have him better than the following players I consider best at Center:

Embiid
AD
Jokic
Towns
Gobert
Rob Williams
JJJ
CLaxton
Sabonis
J Allen
M Turner
Al Horford
Bam
Poeltl
Porzingis
Vuc

And then I see arguments for Capella (when healthy), Poeltl, Sengun, Nurcik, Robinson.

I can see him as being Top 20 currently but I don't ever except him to be a Top 5 Center [maybe he can have a season or two as a Top 10 center?] which means Top 20 is a safe estimate for him as a player and my 90% expectations [meaning he can exceed them].
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.

penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


Circa 2018
E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.


Circa 2022
G35 wrote:Lebron is not that far off from WB in trade value.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 12,202
And1: 7,356
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1077 » by HotelVitale » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:08 pm

CraftylikeaFox wrote:This rookie class looks stacked right now.

Banchero looks like a future superstar.

Mathurin and Ivey have flashed star potential.

Kessler, Jabari, and Jalen Williams look like they could be stars or at least high end starters.

Murray, AJ Griffin, and Nembhard look like future high end starters.

Guys like Sochan, Mark Williams, Eason, Duren, and Dyson Daniels have looked good too.

Just a lot of talent all around


Yeah lot of diverse talent this year. I also like some of the late round guy who’ve only had time to show flashes. This stuff also changes SO much over time, it’s very likely that about 1/3 of the guys you have listed as stars or high end starters end up barely clinging to rosters in like 4 years, while at least a few guys who look pretty disappointing now emerge as some of the best players in the class.

Translation—what skills and abilities that dude hung his hat on at lower levels work right away?—is always cool to watch and this year has been more interesting than usual. Lots of surprises and disappointments so far. The next step of full adjustment to nba pace and timing is usually even more important and unpredictable, all about what you can do consistently and repetitively against full on nba talents. That’s where the slow burning guys who master the little things make up ground every year.
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 27,952
And1: 5,897
Joined: Jun 22, 2001

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1078 » by bstein14 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:47 am

Jalen Duren tonight 9-13 and 5-5 from the line for 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2, blocks, and 2 steals in 31 minutes of action... Yes the Pistons got beat down by the Bucks but a nice stat line from the young fella. It will be interesting to see how his 2023 numbers end up. I wouldn't be surprised to see him average a double double the 2nd half of his rookie season... especially since he's getting more minutes with Bagley out.
User avatar
Mr Peanut
Rookie
Posts: 1,192
And1: 1,121
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
Location: New Zealand
 

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1079 » by Mr Peanut » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:28 am

76ciology wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.


I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.


How does Duren has a higher offense floor? Williams has better pts per 36 and shows more promise as a shooter.

And defensively, Williams projects to be an elite rim protector, elite in deflections and elite rebounder.

I know how impressive Duren’s physique and athleticism is. But Mark Williams’ got elite length (he’s got a longer standing reach than Bol bol) and has great mobility and athleticism for his size.


You're actually quoting points per 36 for a guy playing 13 minutes per game against predominantly backups? That's bold.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 55,920
And1: 19,829
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: 2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread 

Post#1080 » by 76ciology » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:08 am

Mr Peanut wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.


How does Duren has a higher offense floor? Williams has better pts per 36 and shows more promise as a shooter.

And defensively, Williams projects to be an elite rim protector, elite in deflections and elite rebounder.

I know how impressive Duren’s physique and athleticism is. But Mark Williams’ got elite length (he’s got a longer standing reach than Bol bol) and has great mobility and athleticism for his size.


You're actually quoting points per 36 for a guy playing 13 minutes per game against predominantly backups? That's bold.


He’s not playing against back-ups recently. He played when Sengun, Okongwu/Capela (both started) and Kessler/Vando (both started) were on the floor in his last 3 games where he averaged 12ppg 4.7rpg 1.7spg and 2.7bpg

Both guys are averaging almost the same number of points despite Mark Williams playing almost half Duren’s minutes.

Duren’s only edge is his superb rebounding. Mark Williams has the edge on rim protection/blks, steals and pts.

Mark Williams has been better than Duren, until proven otherwise which is not impossible.

Im not a Hornets fan. So you can also count me out for being bias.
“If we have data, let’s look at data. If all we have are opinions, let’s go with mine”.-Jim Barksdale

Truth fears no examination

Return to The General Board