Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs!

Moderators: bwgood77, KingDavid, Domejandro, cupcakesnake, Harry Garris, ken6199, infinite11285, zimpy27, bisme37, Dirk

picko
Starter
Posts: 2,097
And1: 2,929
Joined: May 17, 2018
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#561 » by picko » Wed Jan 4, 2023 3:59 am

Gordon wrote:After watching his last few games, i am convinced he is most overrated prospect of last 10 years. He is nowhere near the level of prospect Lebron or Davis was. He is slow, weak and has Westbrook like percentages from outside. I would rather have Bol Bol them him.


Very reasonable and well considered take.
tmorgan
RealGM
Posts: 10,600
And1: 5,394
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
   

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#562 » by tmorgan » Wed Jan 4, 2023 10:19 am

Gordon wrote:After watching his last few games, i am convinced he is most overrated prospect of last 10 years. He is nowhere near the level of prospect Lebron or Davis was. He is slow, weak and has Westbrook like percentages from outside. I would rather have Bol Bol them him.


Eh… he’s not the same kind of prospect LeBron was, but that doesn’t make him inferior. LeBron had the best feel for the game of an 18-year-old basically ever and was a tier one athlete as well. Super special. But he couldn’t shoot past 20 feet for isht, his defense was more gambles than solid play, and he — like everyone that enters the league — had a lot to learn. And obviously he did learn.

VW will be the longest player in the league (maybe Bamba? I dunno), has a projectable shot, dribble creation ability to some degree, and extremely good defensive instincts for a teenager. Sure, he’ll have a ton to learn, get beat up a lot initially, probably will have some turnover and foul problems and won’t shoot that well outside of 5 feet in the beginning. He’ll need to get some bad habits beat out of him as he learns what won’t fly for a slender giant against basketball’s best athletes. I doubt he’ll be an all-star year one, and injuries will be a concern. But his ceiling is insanely high, and his non-injury floor is very high as well.

I’d take rookie LeBron over him no question, but that’s because I know the outcome. Without that, it’d be close, and that’s not something I think is true about any #1 pick since LBJ.
HangTime
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,034
And1: 2,979
Joined: Oct 18, 2011

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#563 » by HangTime » Wed Jan 4, 2023 8:47 pm

I don't get why the NBA Doesn't allow these guy to be drafted at a younger age.

Victor is in his 4th year as a pro. I feel like if you've had at least 1 year as pro, else where, you should be able to enter the draft. Then teams can hold onto your rights until the season they turn 19.

Same thing with Scoot.
He is in his 2nd year as a pro, and it's under the umbrella of the NBA.
He should have been able to enter the 2022 draft.
IF the NBA still doesn't want him playing until he turns 19, he could play for drafting team's G-Leauge affiliate.


It sort of like When the when David Robinson was picked, but it was known he wouldn't be being for 2 years.
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 23,464
And1: 22,224
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#564 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jan 4, 2023 9:08 pm

HangTime wrote:I don't get why the NBA Doesn't allow these guy to be drafted at a younger age.

Victor is in his 4th year as a pro. I feel like if you've had at least 1 year as pro, else where, you should be able to enter the draft. Then teams can hold onto your rights until the season they turn 19.

Same thing with Scoot.
He is in his 2nd year as a pro, and it's under the umbrella of the NBA.
He should have been able to enter the 2022 draft.
IF the NBA still doesn't want him playing until he turns 19, he could play for drafting team's G-Leauge affiliate.


It sort of like When the when David Robinson was picked, but it was known he wouldn't be being for 2 years.


I am against these age restrictions, I dont care if we get more busts if we get rid of it, these restrictions blow. That said, Wemby wasnt ready at all last year, for him, his progression and career path has been good, he actually degraded the level of competition, because he hated his limited role in Asvel.
Image

Stop making stupid people famous!
Goner
Pro Prospect
Posts: 883
And1: 668
Joined: May 28, 2015
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#565 » by Goner » Thu Jan 5, 2023 2:41 am

UcanUwill wrote:
HangTime wrote:I don't get why the NBA Doesn't allow these guy to be drafted at a younger age.

Victor is in his 4th year as a pro. I feel like if you've had at least 1 year as pro, else where, you should be able to enter the draft. Then teams can hold onto your rights until the season they turn 19.

Same thing with Scoot.
He is in his 2nd year as a pro, and it's under the umbrella of the NBA.
He should have been able to enter the 2022 draft.
IF the NBA still doesn't want him playing until he turns 19, he could play for drafting team's G-Leauge affiliate.


It sort of like When the when David Robinson was picked, but it was known he wouldn't be being for 2 years.


I am against these age restrictions, I dont care if we get more busts if we get rid of it, these restrictions blow. That said, Wemby wasnt ready at all last year, for him, his progression and career path has been good, he actually degraded the level of competition, because he hated his limited role in Asvel.

The restrictions help bad/tanking franchises by making picks early in the draft more valuable. This is accomplished by giving scouting departments a better impression of prospects in such a way that fewer great players slip out of the top 15. If the restrictions are done away with then the draft would have to be overhauled as well.
User avatar
Pachinko_
RealGM
Posts: 18,615
And1: 20,567
Joined: Jun 13, 2016
Location: Greece/Australia
   

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#566 » by Pachinko_ » Thu Jan 5, 2023 4:42 am

Goner wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
HangTime wrote:I don't get why the NBA Doesn't allow these guy to be drafted at a younger age.

Victor is in his 4th year as a pro. I feel like if you've had at least 1 year as pro, else where, you should be able to enter the draft. Then teams can hold onto your rights until the season they turn 19.

Same thing with Scoot.
He is in his 2nd year as a pro, and it's under the umbrella of the NBA.
He should have been able to enter the 2022 draft.
IF the NBA still doesn't want him playing until he turns 19, he could play for drafting team's G-Leauge affiliate.


It sort of like When the when David Robinson was picked, but it was known he wouldn't be being for 2 years.


I am against these age restrictions, I dont care if we get more busts if we get rid of it, these restrictions blow. That said, Wemby wasnt ready at all last year, for him, his progression and career path has been good, he actually degraded the level of competition, because he hated his limited role in Asvel.

The restrictions help bad/tanking franchises by making picks early in the draft more valuable. This is accomplished by giving scouting departments a better impression of prospects in such a way that fewer great players slip out of the top 15. If the restrictions are done away with then the draft would have to be overhauled as well.

I don't think the draft exists for basketball reasons, it exists for money reasons
If basketball was the only consideration, teams would be allowed to create their own academies so they can filter the best talents and give them proper professional support and development from a very young age, instead of letting them waste their time in ACCU etc with mom and pop coaches who don't really care about the player's development because they know they only have him for a year.

The draft and the age restrictions are there to create an artificial parity where no real parity exists, because the percieved parity creates hope and maximises the incoming dollars from the multiple smaller markets that exist in the US. But it does hurt the talent development overall. You probably don't even notice it because in the US you have basketball talent coming out of your *****, but it definitely hurts because it's archaic and nonsensical.

Imagine if Zion or Wiggins were professionally looked after from 13 years old by coaches who know the player will probably still be there 5 years later. That's when you can work on the difficult stuff, not just dunks.
#FreeChuckDiesel
ConSarnit
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,975
And1: 1,995
Joined: May 05, 2015
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#567 » by ConSarnit » Fri Jan 6, 2023 2:13 am

Goner wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
HangTime wrote:I don't get why the NBA Doesn't allow these guy to be drafted at a younger age.

Victor is in his 4th year as a pro. I feel like if you've had at least 1 year as pro, else where, you should be able to enter the draft. Then teams can hold onto your rights until the season they turn 19.

Same thing with Scoot.
He is in his 2nd year as a pro, and it's under the umbrella of the NBA.
He should have been able to enter the 2022 draft.
IF the NBA still doesn't want him playing until he turns 19, he could play for drafting team's G-Leauge affiliate.


It sort of like When the when David Robinson was picked, but it was known he wouldn't be being for 2 years.


I am against these age restrictions, I dont care if we get more busts if we get rid of it, these restrictions blow. That said, Wemby wasnt ready at all last year, for him, his progression and career path has been good, he actually degraded the level of competition, because he hated his limited role in Asvel.

The restrictions help bad/tanking franchises by making picks early in the draft more valuable. This is accomplished by giving scouting departments a better impression of prospects in such a way that fewer great players slip out of the top 15. If the restrictions are done away with then the draft would have to be overhauled as well.


This just isn’t true at all. Drafting out of high school has had the highest historical success rate of any type of player drafted. Now if you mean moving the draft age to 16 then maybe there’s an argument.
Goner
Pro Prospect
Posts: 883
And1: 668
Joined: May 28, 2015
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#568 » by Goner » Fri Jan 6, 2023 3:42 am

ConSarnit wrote:This just isn’t true at all. Drafting out of high school has had the highest historical success rate of any type of player drafted. Now if you mean moving the draft age to 16 then maybe there’s an argument.

Yes, the post I responded to mentioned Euro players starting their pro careers at 16 so that's what I meant. Personally, I'd love the removal of all age restrictions as a Clipper fan, since Ballmer would likely spend far more than any other owner on scouting.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 12,203
And1: 7,357
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#569 » by HotelVitale » Fri Jan 6, 2023 4:45 am

ConSarnit wrote:
Goner wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
I am against these age restrictions, I dont care if we get more busts if we get rid of it, these restrictions blow. That said, Wemby wasnt ready at all last year, for him, his progression and career path has been good, he actually degraded the level of competition, because he hated his limited role in Asvel.

The restrictions help bad/tanking franchises by making picks early in the draft more valuable. This is accomplished by giving scouting departments a better impression of prospects in such a way that fewer great players slip out of the top 15. If the restrictions are done away with then the draft would have to be overhauled as well.


This just isn’t true at all. Drafting out of high school has had the highest historical success rate of any type of player drafted. Now if you mean moving the draft age to 16 then maybe there’s an argument.

I don’t think you read that point correctly, since your point is more or less directly of supporting it. Lots of good to great HS players fell in drafts precisely because teams didn’t know enough about them to confidently draft them higher; of course guys like KG and Kobe would’ve shown themselves to be epically good prospects but seeing someone like Monta Ellis in action for a year against college comp would likely have vaulted him to draft boards. Point is that the older players are and the more you’ve seen of them against decent comp, the less chance you’re going to miss someone who’s a really good prospect.
User avatar
Clyde Frazier
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 19,035
And1: 23,751
Joined: Sep 07, 2010

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#570 » by Clyde Frazier » Mon Jan 9, 2023 6:07 pm

Gordon wrote:After watching his last few games, i am convinced he is most overrated prospect of last 10 years. He is nowhere near the level of prospect Lebron or Davis was. He is slow, weak and has Westbrook like percentages from outside. I would rather have Bol Bol them him.


Whenever anyone says this they completely ignore Bol is in *year 4* like it doesn't matter.
User avatar
Gordon
Rookie
Posts: 1,017
And1: 120
Joined: Feb 23, 2004

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#571 » by Gordon » Mon Jan 9, 2023 8:35 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:
Gordon wrote:After watching his last few games, i am convinced he is most overrated prospect of last 10 years. He is nowhere near the level of prospect Lebron or Davis was. He is slow, weak and has Westbrook like percentages from outside. I would rather have Bol Bol them him.


Whenever anyone says this they completely ignore Bol is in *year 4* like it doesn't matter.


Bol Bol is better, more fluid athlete. That is not going to change in 4 year. Watching Wembanyama play right now, i stand by my opinion. He is slow, weak and soft. Most overrated prospect in years. Not buying the hype.
User avatar
Clyde Frazier
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 19,035
And1: 23,751
Joined: Sep 07, 2010

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#572 » by Clyde Frazier » Mon Jan 9, 2023 9:24 pm

Gordon wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:
Gordon wrote:After watching his last few games, i am convinced he is most overrated prospect of last 10 years. He is nowhere near the level of prospect Lebron or Davis was. He is slow, weak and has Westbrook like percentages from outside. I would rather have Bol Bol them him.


Whenever anyone says this they completely ignore Bol is in *year 4* like it doesn't matter.


Bol Bol is better, more fluid athlete. That is not going to change in 4 year. Watching Wembanyama play right now, i stand by my opinion. He is slow, weak and soft. Most overrated prospect in years. Not buying the hype.


"He is slow, weak and soft" is bot level analysis. The amount he's filled out from 17 to 19 years old is actually encouraging. His skillset is too impressive to just push aside because he’s awkward looking. Is he going to play like he has in Europe as a rookie in the NBA? Very unlikely, but the idea that he won’t develop significantly in 4 years is flat out illogical.

The only real concern is durability. If he can stay healthy his realistic expected outcome is very good, even if he doesn’t reach his ceiling.
Perishable517
Analyst
Posts: 3,381
And1: 1,765
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
Location: Milwaukee
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#573 » by Perishable517 » Mon Jan 9, 2023 9:48 pm

His frame and movement reminds me of Lew Alcindor when he was the same age.

Sent from my CPH2417 using RealGM mobile app
" If you take away the alc l r g on Malcolm Brogdon is Mom Bod :("
- emunney

"I’d place the phone directly between my cheeks while I let one rip right in John Hammond’s ear."
- BroncoBuck
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 23,464
And1: 22,224
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#574 » by UcanUwill » Mon Jan 9, 2023 9:50 pm

Spoiler, game winning put back slam to beat his former (and Euroleague) team - Asvel. His rim protection and overall ability above the rim is insane.

Image

Stop making stupid people famous!
User avatar
NoDopeOnSundays
Knicks Forum: Playground Bully
Posts: 16,387
And1: 31,466
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
         

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#575 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:30 am

Gordon wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:
Gordon wrote:After watching his last few games, i am convinced he is most overrated prospect of last 10 years. He is nowhere near the level of prospect Lebron or Davis was. He is slow, weak and has Westbrook like percentages from outside. I would rather have Bol Bol them him.


Whenever anyone says this they completely ignore Bol is in *year 4* like it doesn't matter.


Bol Bol is better, more fluid athlete. That is not going to change in 4 year. Watching Wembanyama play right now, i stand by my opinion. He is slow, weak and soft. Most overrated prospect in years. Not buying the hype.





The Bol Bol comparisons are funny, they don't really play much alike outside of shooting threes, so far Victor has shown so much more potential in the low and mid post than Bol who doesn't do anything at all with his back to the rim. Also, Bol Bol is 7'0.75" without shoes, for comparisons sake Rudy Gobert measured 7'0.5" without shoes as well, and this is what he looks like next to Victor.

Image


The Bol Bol stuff is so lazy.
Exp0sed
Starter
Posts: 2,055
And1: 1,603
Joined: Feb 10, 2022

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#576 » by Exp0sed » Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:56 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gordon wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:
Whenever anyone says this they completely ignore Bol is in *year 4* like it doesn't matter.


Bol Bol is better, more fluid athlete. That is not going to change in 4 year. Watching Wembanyama play right now, i stand by my opinion. He is slow, weak and soft. Most overrated prospect in years. Not buying the hype.





The Bol Bol comparisons are funny, they don't really play much alike outside of shooting threes, so far Victor has shown so much more potential in the low and mid post than Bol who doesn't do anything at all with his back to the rim. Also, Bol Bol is 7'0.75" without shoes, for comparisons sake Rudy Gobert measured 7'0.5" without shoes as well, and this is what he looks like next to Victor.

Image


The Bol Bol stuff is so lazy.


what's so funny?

A comparison doesn't mean the two players are identical (no two players are)
it means there are obvious point of similarity that we can use as some of refrenence

Bol Bol moves pretty fluidly for a guy his size as well
he can put the ball on the floor (albeit wildly) and def has flashes of decent handle
they're skinny, super long, shoot out to the 3 pt range and are both very imposing rim protector

obviosuly Wemby is longer, smarter, seems much better mentally as well and has shown flashed of truly all-time dominant rim protection and is much younger, he will likely be a much better player than Bol (who still can improve significantly on his own right and he already has) but that comparison isn't "funny", it's just fine

just because Bol doesn't have a back to the basket game does not mean the two aren't comparable
User avatar
NoDopeOnSundays
Knicks Forum: Playground Bully
Posts: 16,387
And1: 31,466
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
         

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#577 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:18 pm

Exp0sed wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Gordon wrote:
Bol Bol is better, more fluid athlete. That is not going to change in 4 year. Watching Wembanyama play right now, i stand by my opinion. He is slow, weak and soft. Most overrated prospect in years. Not buying the hype.





The Bol Bol comparisons are funny, they don't really play much alike outside of shooting threes, so far Victor has shown so much more potential in the low and mid post than Bol who doesn't do anything at all with his back to the rim. Also, Bol Bol is 7'0.75" without shoes, for comparisons sake Rudy Gobert measured 7'0.5" without shoes as well, and this is what he looks like next to Victor.

Image


The Bol Bol stuff is so lazy.


what's so funny?

A comparison doesn't mean the two players are identical (no two players are)
it means there are obvious point of similarity that we can use as some of refrenence

Bol Bol moves pretty fluidly for a guy his size as well
he can put the ball on the floor (albeit wildly) and def has flashes of decent handle
they're skinny, super long, shoot out to the 3 pt range and are both very imposing rim protector

obviosuly Wemby is longer, smarter, seems much better mentally as well and has shown flashed of truly all-time dominant rim protection and is much younger, he will likely be a much better player than Bol (who still can improve significantly on his own right and he already has) but that comparison isn't "funny", it's just fine

just because Bol doesn't have a back to the basket game does not mean the two aren't comparable



If Bol doesn't have a back to the basket game and is around 3-4" shorter how exactly are they comparable? The fact that Victor shows self creation from the mid/low posts are what separates him from Bol, as does the passing. If you wanted a better comparison Victors game is more like Embiids, the handle and fades over both shoulders can be molded and developed so that he could be the hub of an offense from the low-mid post out to the three point line, I don't see any of that potential from Bol. All that facing up Victor does can be done from the mid-post once he gets stronger, much like Embiid.

It's just a lazy comparison, may as well just say every tall guy who has a little handle is like Victor, even though the height difference between Bol/Victor is bigger than the one between KD and PG13, but nobody really compares PG to KD even though they both have handles, take middies and shoot three
User avatar
Bum Adebayo
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,694
And1: 2,872
Joined: Apr 28, 2016
 

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#578 » by Bum Adebayo » Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:00 pm

Bol Bol is nowhere near Wembanyama in terms of fluidness and coordination, he moves and plays way more awkwardly, what are you guys smoking? of course, it remains to be seen the end result of Wembanyama's game, how good are his shooting numbers, how effective will his offensive game be, but from an eye test standpoint he looks much better.
Embiid fan since 2014
Sphynx
Sophomore
Posts: 156
And1: 125
Joined: Jul 14, 2014

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#579 » by Sphynx » Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:43 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:In Europe, just no one really plays like him, or even capable of, for the most part. Beside Wemby, the best player in Europe and the best NON NBA player in the world is probably Vazenkov, right, and he scored 300 points in the Euroleague so far, on 28 dribbles... Thats just classic.


Vezenkov is one of my favorite players, and I love the way he shoots the ball, but Micic is the best player in EuroLeague. It isn't even debatable.

UcanUwill wrote:Luka was best player in Europe at age 19. It is harder to say the same for Victor as he is not playing against the best teams, he is only paying domestically, but he probably is best player in Europe now, some might argue even more obviously than Luka. Also, with no hindsight bias, I would guess Victors game looks like it should translate better in the NBA, he is one of those rare players like Giannis who looks like he will be even better on NBA court. So yeah, I would guess he will be a very good NBA player as soon as November 2023.

With every 18 year old, there will be potential talks. But guys like Bender, Hartenstein or Pokusevski had only potential, they were
European scrubs. Both Luka and Victor are/were absolutely dominating Euro vets as teennagers. SO yeah, Victor has one of the greatest potential ceilings ever, but also he is already pretty polished and capable of dominating. He is high floor high ceiling guy.


Luka was top 3-4 player in Europe at age 19. He was in the discussion, but he wasn't clearly the best. Wembanyama is obviously better at age 18 than Luka was. We will see how he compares at age 19.


It's either Micic or Bryce Cotton.

As you need to preface that the EuroLeague isn't the guaranteed best league outside the NBA at the moment either.

There's as many top prospects coming out of Australia as Europe with all commentary out of it from current and former NBA players is that it's an incredibly competitive professional league.

Would actually be good to see some sort of Cup winners Cup style game between the Euroleague winner and NBL Champion each season.
sisibilio
Head Coach
Posts: 6,541
And1: 881
Joined: Nov 18, 2009

Re: Victor Wembanyama Mega-Thread - For all your Wembanyama needs! 

Post#580 » by sisibilio » Wed Jan 11, 2023 12:29 pm

Australian league is not comparable to the spanish or even french league, let alone Euroleague.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
@MikePradaSBN

Return to The General Board