If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#821 » by jasonxxx102 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:25 am

Yallbecrazy wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:But Scottie Barnes doesnt have anything in common with Magic besides being tall and mobile.

Yeah Barnes is above average dribbling and passing for his size, but the gap between him and Magic is like the gap between Barnes and a total stiff who cant do anything


Barnes already has a better shot than Magic and let's be honest Magic in this era wouldn't have been as much of a standout. Picture Simmons with a better attitude, but still as **** of a shot.

Last year I had it
1. Barnes
2. Mobley
gap
3. Wagner
4. Cade
5. I don't know..Sengun?

This year it's Mobley, Barnes, and Wagner all kind of close together. They are all players that are floor raisers which is nice. Offensively Barnes is lacking the shot, Wagner the creation, and Mobley in the middle.
That being said I like that Wagner has shown more progress, Mobley an increase in proficiency and can pass well, while Barnes can finish really well in the post and around the rim.

I was overly high on Sengun last year ( had him #2 behind Mobley predraft) but he's the most fun to watch and I'd be excited to see him around other skilled, high IQ players


Magic wouldn’t be a standout in this era? WTF?

This takes the cake for worst take I’ve ever seen on here and I’m being dead serious. A top 10 all time great player wouldn’t be a standout in this era?????

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#822 » by ocelot17 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:37 am

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#823 » by Yallbecrazy » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:48 am

jasonxxx102 wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:But Scottie Barnes doesnt have anything in common with Magic besides being tall and mobile.

Yeah Barnes is above average dribbling and passing for his size, but the gap between him and Magic is like the gap between Barnes and a total stiff who cant do anything


Barnes already has a better shot than Magic and let's be honest Magic in this era wouldn't have been as much of a standout. Picture Simmons with a better attitude, but still as **** of a shot.

Last year I had it
1. Barnes
2. Mobley
gap
3. Wagner
4. Cade
5. I don't know..Sengun?

This year it's Mobley, Barnes, and Wagner all kind of close together. They are all players that are floor raisers which is nice. Offensively Barnes is lacking the shot, Wagner the creation, and Mobley in the middle.
That being said I like that Wagner has shown more progress, Mobley an increase in proficiency and can pass well, while Barnes can finish really well in the post and around the rim.

I was overly high on Sengun last year ( had him #2 behind Mobley predraft) but he's the most fun to watch and I'd be excited to see him around other skilled, high IQ players


Magic wouldn’t be a standout in this era? WTF?

This takes the cake for worst take I’ve ever seen on here and I’m being dead serious. A top 10 all time great player wouldn’t be a standout in this era?????

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Twist whatever I said in whatever way you want, doesn't change what I actually said despite you doing it for me. Did I say he wouldn't be a stand out?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#824 » by Clay Davis » Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:21 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
AaronB wrote:Maybe "motivated" is not the best word.

The example I would use is that if 20-year-old Magic had FVV demanding the ball to be the play maker, Magic's competitive nature would not have allowed that, even if his coach insisted on it.

Magic had it from birth.


Scottie is a lot more motivated in the 4th quarter, which, on a lot of nights, is where he does most of his scoring. This is when guys like Pascal and FVV disappear and he has a chance to call his own number. And it shows in his clutch stats, and meets the eye test too (if you watch Raptors games regularly, you'll notice he's super comfortable and engaged at the ends of games).

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I agree that he needs to be more assertive throughout the entire game though. But I think that'll come with age.


It's important to not take this stat too far. One player shooting 58% in the clutch can be more impressive than another player shooting 65% in the clutch if the former takes harder shots than the latter (which will be the case when the former is the first option and the latter is the third option). That being said, the Raptors play their best fourth quarters when Scottie initiates the possession. He's just more savvy at orchestrating an offense than FVV and he's better at producing scoring opportunities for himself.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#825 » by Vox Populi » Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:23 am

Reeko wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
AaronB wrote:BTW, every time I watch Barnes, he reminds me of Magic Johnson.

However, it is Magic Johnson without the fierce competitive motivation.

If he ever gets highly motivated, I reserve the right to change the order.

We're not really comparing Barnes to Magic are we? This is pretty outrageous even for RGM

He's got a lot of Magic in his game. There are definitely more similarities than differences.

I dont know about that.

Is Scottie Barnes closer to Magic Johnson, or is he closer to Robert Horry?

Big Shot Bob. Big Shot Barnes.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#826 » by Reeko » Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:56 am

Clay Davis wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
AaronB wrote:Maybe "motivated" is not the best word.

The example I would use is that if 20-year-old Magic had FVV demanding the ball to be the play maker, Magic's competitive nature would not have allowed that, even if his coach insisted on it.

Magic had it from birth.


Scottie is a lot more motivated in the 4th quarter, which, on a lot of nights, is where he does most of his scoring. This is when guys like Pascal and FVV disappear and he has a chance to call his own number. And it shows in his clutch stats, and meets the eye test too (if you watch Raptors games regularly, you'll notice he's super comfortable and engaged at the ends of games).

Read on Twitter


I agree that he needs to be more assertive throughout the entire game though. But I think that'll come with age.


It's important to not take this stat too far. One player shooting 58% in the clutch can be more impressive than another player shooting 65% in the clutch if the former takes harder shots than the latter (which will be the case when the former is the first option and the latter is the third option). That being said, the Raptors play their best fourth quarters when Scottie initiates the possession. He's just more savvy at orchestrating an offense than FVV and he's better at producing scoring opportunities for himself.

I don't think we can take it far enough. These stats need to be repeated like a mantra.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#827 » by basketballRob » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:26 pm

Franz up to 21 in War. All the players ahead of him are going to be all-stars. Can Franz make the all-star team this season ?

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#829 » by tooler » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:04 pm

I laughed out loud when he went to Google and typed "is the next" and looked at the autocomplete results.

Let's test this...

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#830 » by El Turco » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:07 pm

might as well call this the Sengun draft
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#831 » by Vampirate » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:24 pm

tooler wrote:I laughed out loud when he went to Google and typed "is the next" and looked at the autocomplete results.

Let's test this...

Image

No expectations, the Internet just wants to know when they can watch him again. 8-)


I've seen the Mobley thread and tbh arguing who's the best in the sophomore season is an excessive in futility unless your player is having a season like Lebron James, and no player is doing that.

At this point, picking between each player is like choosing oranges to apples, you're going to pick out the stats you think raise your players value the most.

It's really season 3 and season 4 which will be telling.

Everyone of these players has a serious flaw in their game that they need to work on and improve. Pretty much all rookies - sophomores have big flaws in their game. These weaknesses won't be solved overnight.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#832 » by Tacoma » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:40 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:We're not really comparing Barnes to Magic are we? This is pretty outrageous even for RGM


The "we" includes Magic himself who made the comparison. Magic on Barnes:

"There’s definitely a lot of ‘Showtime’ in him. He can do everything on the basketball court much like myself."

"He’s big. He’s strong. He’s physical. He can make his teammates better like I was able to do and he’s a matchup nightmare like I was."
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#833 » by basketballRob » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:44 pm

Vampirate wrote:
tooler wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
This is quite the jump to compare Franz too though.

I think Franz has All Star in him, but MVP is a bit much.

MVP type players are elite in more than 1 way. Harden was a great rebounder and distributer, Giannis is a monster on the glass and an all world defender etc.

Also I think it's even a stretch for you to believe Franz has Paolo's ceiling as a player.

As for Franz, he's shown to be all around efficient in his scoring, a decent distributer, probably decent-good defender. Basically a good player who can make the All Star team. Looking like a steal in the draft.

In order for Franz to get to All NBA level, let alone MVP level he needs to be able to warp defenses with his passing or become absolutely dominating with his scoring. Do you think he's going to become the 2nd coming of Dirk? I'll give that he's very tall and clearly can shoot, but can he take his game to that level?

I thought someone might get confused and jump on this. I almost explained myself but decided to let it ride.

I wasn't in the remotest universe suggesting that he's a future MVP candidate. I'm only talking about how we talk about and criticize NBA players. The MVP debate threads are full of silly little dissections of flaws. It's pointless because they're all godlike players.

So if we treat MVP candidates like that, then what's the point in debating a few flaws in my potential borderline all-star? We could be here all day if we did this to every player. I'd rather talk about the players as a whole.


I'm not exactly sure of the possibility, but Franz has potential to become All NBA as well.

Do I think it's as likely as Mobley, Barnes, Cade or Green, no but....it's there.

Franz is 6"10 with offensive skill, there's a scenario where his skills match with his height to make him offensively great.

Potential is a tricky thing to measure.

Next year this whole conversation could look totally different, heck a no name no one's heard of could come and blow everyone away.
I think Franz has the best chance to be all-nba.




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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#834 » by Vampirate » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:50 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
tooler wrote:I thought someone might get confused and jump on this. I almost explained myself but decided to let it ride.

I wasn't in the remotest universe suggesting that he's a future MVP candidate. I'm only talking about how we talk about and criticize NBA players. The MVP debate threads are full of silly little dissections of flaws. It's pointless because they're all godlike players.

So if we treat MVP candidates like that, then what's the point in debating a few flaws in my potential borderline all-star? We could be here all day if we did this to every player. I'd rather talk about the players as a whole.


I'm not exactly sure of the possibility, but Franz has potential to become All NBA as well.

Do I think it's as likely as Mobley, Barnes, Cade or Green, no but....it's there.

Franz is 6"10 with offensive skill, there's a scenario where his skills match with his height to make him offensively great.

Potential is a tricky thing to measure.

Next year this whole conversation could look totally different, heck a no name no one's heard of could come and blow everyone away.
Barnes is a couple tiers lower than Franz.

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Well since you again want to brag.

Franz is the better scorer.

Barnes is the better
-Defender
-Rebounder
-Playmaker
-Since January has gotten to the FT line at a much higher rate than Franz.


Franz atm has only 1 elite skill, scoring, he currently doesn't have anything else.


Straight up Mobley, Barnes and Cade provide more value if they are having an off shooting night than Franz does.

This is what you fail to recognize, and congrats you yourself are making other people dislike your player more and more just by running your mouth because you want to brag every chance you get.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#835 » by Vox Populi » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:56 pm

tooler wrote:I laughed out loud when he went to Google and typed "is the next" and looked at the autocomplete results.

Let's test this...

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No expectations, the Internet just wants to know when they can watch him again. 8-)

I got a different result. Franz Wagner is 007™.

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#836 » by Vox Populi » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:57 pm

Vampirate wrote:Franz is the better scorer.

Barnes is the better
-Defender
-Rebounder
-Playmaker
-Since January has gotten to the FT line at a much higher rate than Franz.


Franz atm has only 1 elite skill, scoring, he currently doesn't have anything else.


Straight up Mobley, Barnes and Cade provide more value if they are having an off shooting night than Franz does.

This is what you fail to recognize, and congrats you yourself are making other people dislike your player more and more just by running your mouth because you want to brag every chance you get.

These sound like Scottie Yarns!
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#837 » by tooler » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:58 pm

basketballRob has been on a tear lately, there's no stopping him right now! And don't ask us to come get him, we're powerless.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#838 » by Vampirate » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:15 pm

Vox Populi wrote:
Vampirate wrote:Franz is the better scorer.

Barnes is the better
-Defender
-Rebounder
-Playmaker
-Since January has gotten to the FT line at a much higher rate than Franz.


Franz atm has only 1 elite skill, scoring, he currently doesn't have anything else.


Straight up Mobley, Barnes and Cade provide more value if they are having an off shooting night than Franz does.

This is what you fail to recognize, and congrats you yourself are making other people dislike your player more and more just by running your mouth because you want to brag every chance you get.

These sound like Scottie Yarns!

Why are some so keen to put down Franz to build a case for Scottie?


Because when you're making a case that player is the best is entirely based on scoring mostly, you get that refute. Heck I didn't even say Barnes or Franz are better, i'm refuting the idiotic fact that Franz is tiers better just because he's the better scorer.

If you want to argue that Franz is having a better season than Barnes because of his scoring alone that's fine, it's a nitpicky argument but you didn't see me deny that Franz scoring is better.

It's the argument that Franz is tiers better than anyone else as a player is where I have to shoot down the idiotic argument.

As to which player in that draft is the best, it really comes down to which stats you want to support. There's no player that's having a Lebron type year where they are putting up 25pts/ 7 rebounds/7 assists.

If you think Franz doesn't have wholes in his entire game than you're being a homer. As much as Raptor fans bring up Barnes, Cavs fans bring up Mobley etc, we won't deny the holes in the players games that need to be worked on.

But here's a short list.

Cade - Needs to develop a reliable efficient shot, either scoring at the rim or the 3 point line
Mobley - Needs to work on the aspects of his game that can allow him to create his own shot
Barnes - Same as Mobley pretty much, just not as much
Franz - Needs to work on his rebounding and defense
Green - Defense
Giddey - Needs to work on ways to get to the FT Line more
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#839 » by Vampirate » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:17 pm

tooler wrote:basketballRob has been on a tear lately, there's no stopping him right now! And don't ask us to come get him, we're powerless.


Here's a good question

What's the one aspect of his game you want to see Franz work on the most in the off season?

For Raptor fans it's probably Barnes Ball Handling. Even more than shooting.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#840 » by thelead » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:24 pm

Vampirate wrote:
tooler wrote:basketballRob has been on a tear lately, there's no stopping him right now! And don't ask us to come get him, we're powerless.


Here's a good question

What's the one aspect of his game you want to see Franz work on the most in the off season?

For Raptor fans it's probably Barnes Ball Handling. Even more than shooting.

For me, rebounding
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