DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023

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Who's on your DPOY ballot? (Pick 3. Change your vote whenever. Last poll reset Jan 22.)

Brook Lopez
17
12%
Bam Adebayo
11
8%
Jarrett Allen
2
1%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
16
11%
Jaren Jackson Jr.
34
23%
Nic Claxton
22
15%
Evan Mobley
5
3%
Joel Embiid
14
10%
Draymond Green
5
3%
Other
20
14%
 
Total votes: 146

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#201 » by cupcakesnake » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:04 pm

michaelm wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
A lock? No. Durant's not going to keep up this level of defensive play. But I will say that this is the best he's looked at that end since 2017, a year where I felt like he had a realistic chance of making the all defensive team.


Agree that he's not a lock but that he definitely deserves props for his defensive focus this year.
He's always been a physically blessed defender (crazy length with good footspeed relative to his size), but he's rarely been focused or "good" at defense in his career. He was fun in Golden State as part of an elite defense when he could be an extra rim protector, play small ball center next to Draymond, and show up some switchability when they went to the death lineup. But he wasn't the guy there doing the heavy lifting. It was more of a bonus when KD locked in on defense.

But there's a noticeable focus he has this year (so far), and it's on the list of reasons why Brooklyn has been able to weather all their garbage.

If KD is the best defender on a team in the regular season the team is in trouble/there are problems.with coaching as it is imo a misuse of him to have him taking heavy defensive responsibility particularly at center in the regular season cf 2019. It is a huge bonus he can be effective defensively at center in the play-offs


Nic Claxton has been the Nets best defender, has played exclusively at center, and plays almost all his minutes alongside KD.

KD is, at best, the 4th best defender on this team (Claxton, Simmons, O'Neale), and not shouldering big defensive responsibilities. He looks great in switches, but Brooklyn leans on Royce O'Neale, Ben Simmons, Claxton, and even Yuta Wantanave to get all the dirty work done. Durant deserves some attention for having his best defensive season in a while, and looking clearly more focused, but he's usually the 3rd or 4th most important defender in any Brooklyn lineup (depending on how many small guards Brooklyn tries to play at a time haha).
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#202 » by michaelm » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:31 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
michaelm wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
Agree that he's not a lock but that he definitely deserves props for his defensive focus this year.
He's always been a physically blessed defender (crazy length with good footspeed relative to his size), but he's rarely been focused or "good" at defense in his career. He was fun in Golden State as part of an elite defense when he could be an extra rim protector, play small ball center next to Draymond, and show up some switchability when they went to the death lineup. But he wasn't the guy there doing the heavy lifting. It was more of a bonus when KD locked in on defense.

But there's a noticeable focus he has this year (so far), and it's on the list of reasons why Brooklyn has been able to weather all their garbage.

If KD is the best defender on a team in the regular season the team is in trouble/there are problems.with coaching as it is imo a misuse of him to have him taking heavy defensive responsibility particularly at center in the regular season cf 2019. It is a huge bonus he can be effective defensively at center in the play-offs


Nic Claxton has been the Nets best defender, has played exclusively at center, and plays almost all his minutes alongside KD.

KD is, at best, the 4th best defender on this team (Claxton, Simmons, O'Neale), and not shouldering big defensive responsibilities. He looks great in switches, but Brooklyn leans on Royce O'Neale, Ben Simmons, Claxton, and even Yuta Wantanave to get all the dirty work done. Durant deserves some attention for having his best defensive season in a while, and looking clearly more focused, but he's usually the 3rd or 4th most important defender in any Brooklyn lineup (depending on how many small guards Brooklyn tries to play at a time haha).

Sure, I follow the Nets somewhat, significantly because I remain a KD fan, and am well aware of what Claxton and Simmons have been doing. I was meaning to say he shouldn’t be the major defensive player for a team in any case, he is one of the most potent offensive weapons in NBA history, and banging with centers wears him down. Doing so for that top heavy GSW team in 2019 may well have contributed to his eventual injury; certainly several posters on the GSW board thought he was doing too much defensive work at center during the regular season, I among them.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#203 » by Papi_swav » Sun Jan 1, 2023 2:11 am

2 words- Clax On
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#204 » by BoatsNZones » Sun Jan 1, 2023 11:29 am

First view of this thread. Loll at Draymond not being on this list. And yes, I know their team D is mid right now.

You all realize he is the best defender of this generation, yes? Some of these names :lol:
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#205 » by BAMAFREAK » Sun Jan 1, 2023 4:23 pm

3.2 blocks per game and 1.1 steals.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#206 » by kacey ring » Sun Jan 1, 2023 4:37 pm

This thread is all about DPOY. I want to see some all-defense team projections and I want to see Luka on the second team…GO!!
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#207 » by TheLand13 » Mon Jan 2, 2023 7:18 am

BoatsNZones wrote:First view of this thread. Loll at Draymond not being on this list. And yes, I know their team D is mid right now.

You all realize he is the best defender of this generation, yes? Some of these names :lol:


So just because he was great in the past, he automatically deserves consideration, regardless of how he’s playing now?
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#208 » by michaelm » Mon Jan 2, 2023 7:50 am

TheLand13 wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:First view of this thread. Loll at Draymond not being on this list. And yes, I know their team D is mid right now.

You all realize he is the best defender of this generation, yes? Some of these names :lol:


So just because he was great in the past, he automatically deserves consideration, regardless of how he’s playing now?

He is still capable of playing great defense, and of marshalling his team’s defense, which seems to be translating to good defensive play by the whole team in the clutch in recent games. If this continues for the rest of the season particularly with the return of Wiggins he may well still be worthy of being considered one of the elite defenders in the NBA, but this is far too late for him to be in contention for DPOY, with nearly half the regular season gone.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#209 » by youngcrev » Tue Jan 3, 2023 2:30 pm

Too many Raptors fans skewing poll results. They're 18th in DRTG this season and they're not substantially better with OG on the floor. I get he's have a great individual defensive year, and we're coming off a season where they stupidly gave it to a perimeter guy, but quit it already. He'll be on the All Defensive team but really shouldn't be in this conversation, and is somehow the top vote getter.

To me, JJJ has the best argument right now, and the best argument against him is games played rather than another player.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#210 » by Kurtz » Tue Jan 3, 2023 4:53 pm

youngcrev wrote:Too many Raptors fans skewing poll results. They're 18th in DRTG this season and they're not substantially better with OG on the floor. I get he's have a great individual defensive year, and we're coming off a season where they stupidly gave it to a perimeter guy, but quit it already. He'll be on the All Defensive team but really shouldn't be in this conversation, and is somehow the top vote getter.

To me, JJJ has the best argument right now, and the best argument against him is games played rather than another player.


JJJ is very much in the conversation for DPOY now that he's back. But he's played 20 games and missed 16. For him to win it he would have to play nearly every remaining game, which seems unlikely given his career history.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#211 » by Kobe187 » Tue Jan 3, 2023 9:34 pm

1. JJJ
2. Giannis
3. Lopez
4. Anunoby
5. Allen
6. Bam
7. Mobley
8. Brooks
9. Draymond
10. Embiid

11. Dort
12. Melton
13. Davis
14. Tucker
15. Smart
16. Claxton
17. Simmons
18. Timelord
19. Wiggins
20. Barnes
21. Turner
22. Capela
23. Thybulle
24. Leonard
25. Gobert
26. Jones
27. Bridges
28. Butler
29. Holiday
30. Caruso


Milwaukee is a great defensive team overall. Giannis is the defensive coordinator on the floor, personally Lopez is too slow at closing the gap on the perimeter, this weakness is mitigated by very strong team defending. Giannis switches much more efficiently and is the defensive anchor for that team.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#212 » by RHODEY » Wed Jan 4, 2023 5:14 am

1. Mitch Robinson



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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#213 » by svart » Wed Jan 4, 2023 7:36 am

TheLand13 wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:First view of this thread. Loll at Draymond not being on this list. And yes, I know their team D is mid right now.

You all realize he is the best defender of this generation, yes? Some of these names :lol:


So just because he was great in the past, he automatically deserves consideration, regardless of how he’s playing now?


The thing is he is playing excellent defense right now.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#214 » by LakersLegacy » Wed Jan 4, 2023 9:35 am

I’m usually in awe of Anthony Davis’ defense. If he gets to 60+ games deserves consideration. The way he blocks and steals and disrupts passing lanes and blocks players moving without the ball. His nick name should be gravity because he affects just about everything. When healthy he is an absolute beast
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#215 » by Whateva » Wed Jan 4, 2023 9:57 am

My top candidates would be:

Giannis Antetokoumpo
Jarret Allen
Nick Claxton
Draymond Green
Jaren Jackson Jr.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#216 » by Dacost » Wed Jan 4, 2023 12:03 pm

I totally I agree right now is Jaren Jackson vs games played.

The Grizz when from mid 20s on defense to top 5 since his return.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#217 » by cupcakesnake » Wed Jan 4, 2023 3:18 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:First view of this thread. Loll at Draymond not being on this list. And yes, I know their team D is mid right now.

You all realize he is the best defender of this generation, yes? Some of these names :lol:


We only get 9 names on the list. There's no question Draymond is deserving of consideration, but make your case for why he should bump one of these names off. I change the poll every few months and try to make the list 9 guys with the strongest cases based on buzz, team defense, individual defensive metrics, what I've seen of them, what other people are saying about them.

I've said a few times it feels insane to have a list not have Draymond and Gobert, (and out of those 2, I think Draymond still has a valid DPOY case to make this year). Some advanced metrics (including Defensive EPM, which is my fave) love Draymond. On/off has been excellent for him, and the Warriors still defend at an elite level with him on the floor (110 DRtg). But he's fallen below his own standards in some regards. He's looked much less active and disruptive this year, and his steal rate is less than half of what his career average is. His defensive rating and DBPM is well below its normal levels. Some things point to Draymond still being Draymond, others point to this being a weak defensive season by his standards.

But I think now is the time to start making Draymond's case. When I most recently updated the poll (December 24th), the Warriors were looking dead in the water after getting absolutely blown out by New York and Brooklyn, who put 130 and 140 points on them. Golden State was 15-18 and looked ready to do some epic losing while Curry was out. Since then? The Warriors have won 5 straight, mostly on the back of a strangling defensive effort. The Warriors are now league average on defense and climbing. People love to heap praise on Curry lifting the Warriors, but conveniently forget to mention that the Dubs defense has been the much more consistent part of the success.

If this keeps up even a little, it's guaranteed that Draymond will be on the poll, and back in people's minds as a DPOY candidate.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#218 » by cupcakesnake » Wed Jan 4, 2023 3:21 pm

As vocal a fan as I am about Anunoby's defense, I think I might leave him off the poll if the Raptors continue to play as poorly as they have. I thought his play deserved the attention the first time around, but now it feels silly to have him dominating the poll while the Raps sit in 12th. It's not his fault the Raps keep trying to play without rim protections, and I'd still have him on my all-defense, but it's just hard to make a DPOY case with such a poor team performance.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#219 » by cupcakesnake » Thu Jan 5, 2023 2:50 am

All-Defense according to EPM (my preferred defensive catch-all stat).

Alex Caruso +3
OG Anunoby +3.3
Draymond Green +2.8
JJJ +4.6
Nic Claxton +2.9

Jevon Carter +2.6
Mathisse Thybulle +2.5
Jaden McDaniels +2.5
Anthony Davis +2.4
Jarrett Allen +2.6

Mitchell Robinson and Steven Adams are tied with Anthony Davis at +2.4.
Other players over +2 (with at least 20 games): TJ McConnell, Hamidou Diallo, Kyle Anderson, Dillon Brooks, Dyson Daniels, Quentin Grimes, Bismack Biyombo.

Lopez, Giannis, Herb, Jimmy, Paul George, Embiid, Durant, Ben Simmons, Melton, Porzingis, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler are all in the 90th percentile.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#220 » by yoyoboy » Thu Jan 5, 2023 3:03 am

If JJJ plays most of the remaining games, he deserves this award. Just clearly the most impactful defender on a per-minute basis imo. Missed games could easily end up taking him out of it though. I was pumping up Allen or Mobley but both guys have been sleepwalking the last couple weeks. Claxton is coming on strong. Lopez is hanging around. Draymond has also actually been really impressive to me, especially lately. If things continue the way they have been, I can see him rising fast and becoming my #2 contender.

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