DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023

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Who's on your DPOY ballot? (Pick 3. Change your vote whenever. Last poll reset Jan 22.)

Brook Lopez
17
12%
Bam Adebayo
11
8%
Jarrett Allen
2
1%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
16
11%
Jaren Jackson Jr.
34
23%
Nic Claxton
22
15%
Evan Mobley
5
3%
Joel Embiid
14
10%
Draymond Green
5
3%
Other
20
14%
 
Total votes: 146

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#221 » by Kurtz » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:51 am

Dacost wrote:I totally I agree right now is Jaren Jackson vs games played.

The Grizz when from mid 20s on defense to top 5 since his return.


He's overtaken Lopez as the Vegas favourite for the award now. But how many more games can he afford to miss - can you really give it to a guy who misses say a quarter of the season?
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#222 » by baldur » Thu Jan 5, 2023 9:30 am

Kurtz wrote:
Dacost wrote:I totally I agree right now is Jaren Jackson vs games played.

The Grizz when from mid 20s on defense to top 5 since his return.


He's overtaken Lopez as the Vegas favourite for the award now. But how many more games can he afford to miss - can you really give it to a guy who misses say a quarter of the season?

everybody misses the quarter of the season these days.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#223 » by Dacost » Thu Jan 5, 2023 12:32 pm

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#224 » by Exp0sed » Thu Jan 5, 2023 1:18 pm

Kurtz wrote:
Dacost wrote:I totally I agree right now is Jaren Jackson vs games played.

The Grizz when from mid 20s on defense to top 5 since his return.


He's overtaken Lopez as the Vegas favourite for the award now. But how many more games can he afford to miss - can you really give it to a guy who misses say a quarter of the season?


yes, you can
this isn't MVP

I think it's a very natural narrative as well, not like he's in and out of the lineup
He was expected to be a strong DPOY candidate, arguably should have won it last season as well
he underwent an offseason surgery, recovery went well into the start of the season - fine

but bottom line, since the moment he stepped back on the court he's been dominating defensively and leading his team to impressive defence

I think he's well ahead tbh, assuming he plays for the rest of the season (i don't mean every game, just that he doesn't miss any more substantial time)
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#225 » by cupcakesnake » Thu Jan 5, 2023 3:17 pm

yoyoboy wrote:If JJJ plays most of the remaining games, he deserves this award. Just clearly the most impactful defender on a per-minute basis imo. Missed games could easily end up taking him out of it though. I was pumping up Allen or Mobley but both guys have been sleepwalking the last couple weeks. Claxton is coming on strong. Lopez is hanging around. Draymond has also actually been really impressive to me, especially lately. If things continue the way they have been, I can see him rising fast and becoming my #2 contender.


Came here to post these exact thought.

Even without looking at the stats (which all love him), just watching the Block Panther he looks like the DPOY. He's really stepped up his poise and discipline and harnessed all that raw athleticism. He has several eye-popping possessions every game. I think if he gets to 60ish games, he can win this award.

Draymond deserves some narrative hype right now. They lost last night, but the Warriors winning 5 straight without Curry (while all season everyone was talking about what a Curry carry job this roster is) is super impressive, and Draymond's defense is at the center of this. The fluid backline defense of Draymond and Looney and the sneaky good wing defense of DDV has been fun to watch. Draymond is such a historic defender, and the moment we forget that he storms back with an effort like this.

I'm not quite read to drop the Cavs boys just because of some ho hum weeks, but Draymond and Claxton have certainly closed the gap and are here for those all-defense spots.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#226 » by cupcakesnake » Thu Jan 5, 2023 3:23 pm

Exp0sed wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
Dacost wrote:I totally I agree right now is Jaren Jackson vs games played.

The Grizz when from mid 20s on defense to top 5 since his return.


He's overtaken Lopez as the Vegas favourite for the award now. But how many more games can he afford to miss - can you really give it to a guy who misses say a quarter of the season?


yes, you can
this isn't MVP

I think it's a very natural narrative as well, not like he's in and out of the lineup
He was expected to be a strong DPOY candidate, arguably should have won it last season as well
he underwent an offseason surgery, recovery went well into the start of the season - fine

but bottom line, since the moment he stepped back on the court he's been dominating defensively and leading his team to impressive defence

I think he's well ahead tbh, assuming he plays for the rest of the season (i don't mean every game, just that he doesn't miss any more substantial time)


I've probably said this before in this thread but it's worth repeating:
DPOY has been won with under 65 games 4 times in the last 11 seasons. That's a lot. Gobert won it with 56 in 2018. Kawhi, Giannis, and Tyson Chandler are the other ones. Tyson and Giannis were in slightly shortened seasons, but Kawhi and Gobert's were in full 82 game seasons.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#227 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Jan 5, 2023 3:36 pm

Lopez was terrific defensively against the Raptors last night. He and Giannis shut us down completely. But OG was also great. When OG was defending Giannis the Greek Freak had 4 baskets and 6 turnovers. I know the Raptors are sucking too much for OG to win DPOY but he's as deserving as anyone.

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#228 » by Flash Falcon X » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:20 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:If JJJ plays most of the remaining games, he deserves this award. Just clearly the most impactful defender on a per-minute basis imo. Missed games could easily end up taking him out of it though. I was pumping up Allen or Mobley but both guys have been sleepwalking the last couple weeks. Claxton is coming on strong. Lopez is hanging around. Draymond has also actually been really impressive to me, especially lately. If things continue the way they have been, I can see him rising fast and becoming my #2 contender.


Came here to post these exact thought.

Even without looking at the stats (which all love him), just watching the Block Panther he looks like the DPOY. He's really stepped up his poise and discipline and harnessed all that raw athleticism. He has several eye-popping possessions every game. I think if he gets to 60ish games, he can win this award.

Draymond deserves some narrative hype right now. They lost last night, but the Warriors winning 5 straight without Curry (while all season everyone was talking about what a Curry carry job this roster is) is super impressive, and Draymond's defense is at the center of this. The fluid backline defense of Draymond and Looney and the sneaky good wing defense of DDV has been fun to watch. Draymond is such a historic defender, and the moment we forget that he storms back with an effort like this.

I'm not quite read to drop the Cavs boys just because of some ho hum weeks, but Draymond and Claxton have certainly closed the gap and are here for those all-defense spots.


yup. when gsw won 5 straight without steph/wiggins, draymond stepped up on defense and as a result the warriors had the best defensive rating in the league during those 5 games. they lost last night which wasn't a surprise since draymond got ejected with about 2 mins left in the game lol... dubs needed his defense.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#229 » by SpreeS » Fri Jan 6, 2023 11:05 am

Drtg (in) Drtg (out) Nrtg

Lopez 108.6 112.6 -4.0
Anunoby 113.2 115.4 -2.2
Adebayo 111.9 113.8 -1.9
Allen 108.7 111.3 -2.6
Giannis 109.4 111.2 -1.8
Jackson 104.9 112.9 -8.0
Claxton 111.8 114.4 -2.6
Mobley 112.1 105.4 +6.7
Embiid 108.7 113.5 -4.8

Green 110.9 119.6 -8.7

DFA DIFF%

Lopez 22.0 -2.3
Anunoby 11.5 -6.1
Adebayo 13.7 -1.9
Allen 16.5 -5.2
Giannis 13.1 -6.3
Jackson 13.1 -6.7
Claxton 14.7 -7.9
Mobley 16.8 -0.3
Embiid 20.6 -2.2

Green 14.7 -6.2

Paint protection DFA FG%

Lopez 7.8 54.3
Anunoby 2.6 56.7
Adebayo 4.1 60.4
Allen 6.0 53.4
Giannis 4.9 53.2
Jackson 6.4 39.6
Claxton 6.3 50.9
Mobley 6.3 63.9
Embiid 8.2 61.7

Green 4.8 48.5

Green is TOP3 defender here
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#230 » by Bergmaniac » Fri Jan 6, 2023 1:13 pm

Jaren Jackson Jr. looked incredible on D last night, Memphis were a completely different team defensively when he was on the court compared to when he was on the bench.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#231 » by lobosloboslobos » Fri Jan 6, 2023 4:46 pm

SpreeS wrote:Drtg (in) Drtg (out) Nrtg

Lopez 108.6 112.6 -4.0
Anunoby 113.2 115.4 -2.2
Adebayo 111.9 113.8 -1.9
Allen 108.7 111.3 -2.6
Giannis 109.4 111.2 -1.8
Jackson 104.9 112.9 -8.0
Claxton 111.8 114.4 -2.6
Mobley 112.1 105.4 +6.7
Embiid 108.7 113.5 -4.8

Green 110.9 119.6 -8.7

DFA DIFF%

Lopez 22.0 -2.3
Anunoby 11.5 -6.1
Adebayo 13.7 -1.9
Allen 16.5 -5.2
Giannis 13.1 -6.3
Jackson 13.1 -6.7
Claxton 14.7 -7.9
Mobley 16.8 -0.3
Embiid 20.6 -2.2

Green 14.7 -6.2

Paint protection DFA FG%

Lopez 7.8 54.3
Anunoby 2.6 56.7
Adebayo 4.1 60.4
Allen 6.0 53.4
Giannis 4.9 53.2
Jackson 6.4 39.6
Claxton 6.3 50.9
Mobley 6.3 63.9
Embiid 8.2 61.7

Green 4.8 48.5

Green is TOP3 defender here


I'm not disagreeing with your conclusions but context helps too. As shown above OG has the hardest defensive assignments in the league, and mostly only rests when the star he is guarding is off the floor. So it's not that surprising that the difference (-2.2 Drtg in/out) between him defending Durant or Giannis or Ja or Luka or Harden on the floor and them being both off the floor is not that big. His impact is the difference he makes when he is on the floor and generally keeping those guys well below their season averages. Just saying.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#232 » by Dacost » Fri Jan 6, 2023 5:21 pm

To me OG is at the same level of Dillon Brooks they do alot of dirty work and sometimes just get punish by stats that don't get the whole story.

However in this case OG has no change at DPOY the real discussion should be if he is a lock for first team all defense or not
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#233 » by SpreeS » Fri Jan 6, 2023 6:00 pm

SF and G haven’t a same impact as bigs have
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#234 » by Klomp » Fri Jan 6, 2023 8:30 pm

I know he has some fouling issues, but I'm a little surprised there's been no mention of Jaden McDaniels.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#235 » by Warriors Analyst » Fri Jan 6, 2023 9:25 pm

Some more fuel for the Draymond agenda

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#236 » by MartyConlonJr » Fri Jan 6, 2023 10:03 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:I'm not disagreeing with your conclusions but context helps too. As shown above OG has the hardest defensive assignments in the league, and mostly only rests when the star he is guarding is off the floor. So it's not that surprising that the difference (-2.2 Drtg in/out) between him defending Durant or Giannis or Ja or Luka or Harden on the floor and them being both off the floor is not that big. His impact is the difference he makes when he is on the floor and generally keeping those guys well below their season averages. Just saying.


Are you saying the other top contenders for DPOY are not doing this? Either not being put on the other teams best offensive player or playing bench players?
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#237 » by MarcusBrody » Fri Jan 6, 2023 10:33 pm

I accidentally voted for Nic Claxton when meaning to vote for JJJ. Claxton is a worthy mention though and would probably be in my 4-5 spot.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#238 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Jan 6, 2023 11:20 pm

Klomp wrote:I know he has some fouling issues, but I'm a little surprised there's been no mention of Jaden McDaniels.


I posted about him being on second team all-defense at some point when I was posting Defensive EPM scores (from dunksandthrees.com).

Jaden is no question one of the better man-to-man defenders in the NBA. I think Minnesota's team defense is so gross it's hard to want to hype anyone on the team. I know Jaden isn't part of the problem, and he's mainly a point of attack guy, but our inability to rotate and help doesn't help his case.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#239 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Jan 6, 2023 11:20 pm

MarcusBrody wrote:I accidentally voted for Nic Claxton when meaning to vote for JJJ. Claxton is a worthy mention though and would probably be in my 4-5 spot.


In this poll you can change your vote.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#240 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Jan 6, 2023 11:23 pm

MartyConlonJr wrote:
lobosloboslobos wrote:I'm not disagreeing with your conclusions but context helps too. As shown above OG has the hardest defensive assignments in the league, and mostly only rests when the star he is guarding is off the floor. So it's not that surprising that the difference (-2.2 Drtg in/out) between him defending Durant or Giannis or Ja or Luka or Harden on the floor and them being both off the floor is not that big. His impact is the difference he makes when he is on the floor and generally keeping those guys well below their season averages. Just saying.


Are you saying the other top contenders for DPOY are not doing this? Either not being put on the other teams best offensive player or playing bench players?


Saying a player is doing something is not the same thing as saying other players aren't doing this.

But the top contenders for this award are rim protectors (rightfully so!) so yeah they aren't being put on the other teams best offensive player. Though if Bam is your guy, he's doing all of it!
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