DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023

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Who's on your DPOY ballot? (Pick 3. Change your vote whenever. Last poll reset Jan 22.)

Brook Lopez
17
12%
Bam Adebayo
11
8%
Jarrett Allen
2
1%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
16
11%
Jaren Jackson Jr.
34
23%
Nic Claxton
22
15%
Evan Mobley
5
3%
Joel Embiid
14
10%
Draymond Green
5
3%
Other
20
14%
 
Total votes: 146

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#261 » by ben10simmons » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:39 pm

Nets are playing great defense this year, so which Net is most likely to make the All-Defensive team?
https://imgur.com/TXgITF1
Ben Simmons Playoffs = 13.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 7.5 assists, .571 field
Draymond Green Playoffs = 11.8 points, 9.0 rebounds, 6.2 assists, .448 field
Rajon Rondo Playoffs = 12.5 points, 5.6 rebounds, 8.5 assists, .440 field
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#262 » by bisme37 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:44 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
bisme37 wrote:I think my guy Derrick White deserves some all-defense consideration. Leads the league in blocked shots among guards and has come up with clutch defensive plays all season.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Last time I wrote up an all-defense team I'm pretty sure I had White on it.
It's kind of hard to picture the media giving him votes over his reigning DPOY teammate, but when I watch the Celtics, he's the perimeter disruptor I prefer this season. Diving into the on/off combinations backs up my eye on this one:
White w/o Smart 106.4 DRtg
Smart w/o White 114 DRtg
I've looked at all the combinations involving those 2 with/without Brogdon and Brown, and White is the guy with the most consistent presence in the best defensive lineup combinations.

Boston remains a source of confusion for defensive awards this year, especially as they climb into the top 10 and look to continue ascending. Who will the media rally around? Smart is the big defensive name here (and at the less competitive position), where Tatum is really good and is the big star (some media people are always desperate to put big stars on the team). Time Lord is the best defender at his peak, but he's once again an injury asterisk. Horford was their defensive MVP last year in playoffs but he's a year older and always underappreciated. Grant Williams, Jaylen Brown, Derrick White, are all players who you have to at least think about to various degrees.


Yeah I have no idea how it's being seen my voters. White sometimes find himself switched on to bigger guys and gets beat up once in a while, but 95% of the time he's solid as hell and very clutch with key defensive stops. Smart is a menace and will be a perennial vote getter for all defense. I think Tatum deserves consideration but I doubt enough people think of him that way. Grant Williams is one of the best and most versatile defenders in the league imo. Horford and Brogdon are great. Jaylen is no slouch. Timelord will get a look as his minutes increase. He's like a defensive cheat code when he's at full strength.

I wasn't giving it much thought until now but the Celtics defense has improved to #7 and I thought it was time to do a little stanning haha.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#263 » by cupcakesnake » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:57 pm

ben10simmons wrote:Nets are playing great defense this year, so which Net is most likely to make the All-Defensive team?
https://imgur.com/TXgITF1


Claxton has by far the most buzz, but it's so difficult to crack a frontcourt spot because there are so many great defensive bigs. He has the most buzz though. I think Simmons in some ways is just as likely because he'll qualify at guard.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#264 » by bisme37 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:29 am

Lol my Derrick White post made him get injured. Very uncool.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#265 » by BFRESH44 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:17 am

This is the year Bam wins it. The best and most versatile defender in the league.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#266 » by ben10simmons » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:04 pm

Rudy Gobert wasn't the most versatile defender in the league in 2020-21 and they still gave him the award :cry:
Ben Simmons Playoffs = 13.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 7.5 assists, .571 field
Draymond Green Playoffs = 11.8 points, 9.0 rebounds, 6.2 assists, .448 field
Rajon Rondo Playoffs = 12.5 points, 5.6 rebounds, 8.5 assists, .440 field
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#267 » by Colbinii » Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:15 pm

Jaden McDaniels is very easily a 1st team all defensive player this year. He likely doesn't make a team given his youth and lack of reputation but he is one of the very best defenders in the NBA currently.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#268 » by mcmurphy » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:44 am

Colbinii wrote:Jaden McDaniels is very easily a 1st team all defensive player this year. He likely doesn't make a team given his youth and lack of reputation but he is one of the very best defenders in the NBA currently.


yeah, confirm... I see the game against Utah, maybe to much aggressive and some mistakes of naivety but I like it
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#269 » by C64 » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:41 am

blargh wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:comparing JJJ to Giannis or Embiid is apples and oranges

would those guys be better defensively if they weren't also the focal point of their team's offense? offcourse
I would venture to say they would be dramtically better, but that's not relevant to whose the DPOY

that includes being too worried about fouling because their team needs them on the floor (that's true about guys that aren't DPOY candidates but still would be better defenders if they could afford to foul like JJJ like Jokic and Doncic, especially Jokic) or just having less energy to exert on that end because of the heavy load they're carrying offensively

we compare the players by the defense they are actually playing and their role, not based on hypotheticals

personally I think he is way ahead of everyone else per min, so him playing 27 mins isn't a big deal
his impact is tremendous on that end, even in 10% less mins he is doing enough to be ahead

he's actually blocking considerably more shots AND taking more rebounds while committing fewer fouls relative to last season

He is the player to beat imo, in this race


Embiid and Giannis are averaging 33mpg, Adebayo is averaging 35 mpg. JJJ isn’t averaging 10% less minutes, he’s averaging 20-25% less minutes.

The point about not fouling is that there are different ways to have impactful defense. Not chasing blocks while still providing rim protection and staying on the floor longer can still be as valuable to the team defense, especially if you account for the negative value of the free throw points from fouls.

Again, i think it’s possible that JJJ will end the season with the strongest case, but i’m reserving judgement till his minutes go up


His minutes won't go up.

His minutes are low, not because of his fouling. It's because of rotation.

No one in memphis is averaging over 32 minutes per game.
Not sure if anyone's noticed how deep Memphis runs into the bench every night but it's usually at least 11 deep. memphis has a plethora of bigs in normal rotation with JJJ, Adams, Aldama, and Clarke. Not to mention Tillman, Brooks, and Roddy can work time on opponent bigs as well.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#270 » by cupcakesnake » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:32 am

Colbinii wrote:Jaden McDaniels is very easily a 1st team all defensive player this year. He likely doesn't make a team given his youth and lack of reputation but he is one of the very best defenders in the NBA currently.


Love to see Jaden get some love, but I don't think any forward is "easily" a 1st team all-defensive player, especially not a young up and comer without much reputation amongst media.

If you're just saying that the level of quality is 1st team all-defense, I'd agree. But there are so many names ahead of him, and he plays for a mediocre defensive team right now.

I really wish that defensive "position" was considered with a little more nuance to stop the logjam at the frontcourt spots. Jaden is a perimeter defender/point-of-attack defender by trade. Defensively he's a guard charged with stopping perimeter players. That's the bulk of his defensive assignment. I think the same holds true for tons of elite defenders that get thrown into the frontcourt death pit. Mikal Bridges almost exclusively chases guards (he's too skinny to guard the league's best 3s), Andrew Wiggins is primarily a POA guy. I'm just saying, I wouldn't mind it at all if Jaden, Bridges, and OG got 3 of the 4 guard spots while Smart/Caruso/White/whoever had to duke it out for 1.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#271 » by Colbinii » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:52 am

cupcakesnake wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Jaden McDaniels is very easily a 1st team all defensive player this year. He likely doesn't make a team given his youth and lack of reputation but he is one of the very best defenders in the NBA currently.


Love to see Jaden get some love, but I don't think any forward is "easily" a 1st team all-defensive player, especially not a young up and comer without much reputation amongst media.

If you're just saying that the level of quality is 1st team all-defense, I'd agree. But there are so many names ahead of him, and he plays for a mediocre defensive team right now.

I really wish that defensive "position" was considered with a little more nuance to stop the logjam at the frontcourt spots. Jaden is a perimeter defender/point-of-attack defender by trade. Defensively he's a guard charged with stopping perimeter players. That's the bulk of his defensive assignment. I think the same holds true for tons of elite defenders that get thrown into the frontcourt death pit. Mikal Bridges almost exclusively chases guards (he's too skinny to guard the league's best 3s), Andrew Wiggins is primarily a POA guy. I'm just saying, I wouldn't mind it at all if Jaden, Bridges, and OG got 3 of the 4 guard spots while Smart/Caruso/White/whoever had to duke it out for 1.


You are right--he isn't easily first team.

He is a 1st team caliber defender along with 5-6 other wings and only 4 will make both 1st and 2nd team.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#272 » by Exp0sed » Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:14 am

C64 wrote:
blargh wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:


Embiid and Giannis are averaging 33mpg, Adebayo is averaging 35 mpg. JJJ isn’t averaging 10% less minutes, he’s averaging 20-25% less minutes.

The point about not fouling is that there are different ways to have impactful defense. Not chasing blocks while still providing rim protection and staying on the floor longer can still be as valuable to the team defense, especially if you account for the negative value of the free throw points from fouls.

Again, i think it’s possible that JJJ will end the season with the strongest case, but i’m reserving judgement till his minutes go up


His minutes won't go up.

His minutes are low, not because of his fouling. It's because of rotation.

No one in memphis is averaging over 32 minutes per game.
Not sure if anyone's noticed how deep Memphis runs into the bench every night but it's usually at least 11 deep. memphis has a plethora of bigs in normal rotation with JJJ, Adams, Aldama, and Clarke. Not to mention Tillman, Brooks, and Roddy can work time on opponent bigs as well.


100%

Not onlt are the Grizz deep, they were also involved in their fair share of blowouts
when ur team is good and u don't have to play in the 4th, that's gonna hurt ur mpg :)

JJJ is so far ahead of everyone else, he's the clear frontrunner atm even he ends the season with 27 mpg
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#273 » by BAMAFREAK » Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:03 am

Exp0sed wrote:
C64 wrote:
blargh wrote:
Embiid and Giannis are averaging 33mpg, Adebayo is averaging 35 mpg. JJJ isn’t averaging 10% less minutes, he’s averaging 20-25% less minutes.

The point about not fouling is that there are different ways to have impactful defense. Not chasing blocks while still providing rim protection and staying on the floor longer can still be as valuable to the team defense, especially if you account for the negative value of the free throw points from fouls.

Again, i think it’s possible that JJJ will end the season with the strongest case, but i’m reserving judgement till his minutes go up


His minutes won't go up.

His minutes are low, not because of his fouling. It's because of rotation.

No one in memphis is averaging over 32 minutes per game.
Not sure if anyone's noticed how deep Memphis runs into the bench every night but it's usually at least 11 deep. memphis has a plethora of bigs in normal rotation with JJJ, Adams, Aldama, and Clarke. Not to mention Tillman, Brooks, and Roddy can work time on opponent bigs as well.


100%

Not onlt are the Grizz deep, they were also involved in their fair share of blowouts
when ur team is good and u don't have to play in the 4th, that's gonna hurt ur mpg :)

JJJ is so far ahead of everyone else, he's the clear frontrunner atm even he ends the season with 27 mpg



Yep. And those same reasons also keep Ja out of the MVP race. With the Grizz dominating lately, he has rested a lot in the 4th. Jenkins also is strict on rotations early and won’t throw him or JJJ back in just to stop a run.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#274 » by DarkXaero » Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:13 pm

For DPOY, JJJ is special and it's his award to lose. Then it's Claxton as runner up, then everyone else.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#275 » by scrabbarista » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:34 am

Can we change the thread title to HODPOY to put some respect on Hakeem Olajuwon's name?
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#276 » by Dacost » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:00 pm

I think we are getting to the point where only an injury is going to stop Jackson from winning it.

Stats and eye test are just incredible I think we are looking a multiple DPOY for years to come.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#277 » by Syugo » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:56 pm

ben10simmons wrote:Nets are playing great defense this year, so which Net is most likely to make the All-Defensive team?
https://imgur.com/TXgITF1


the fact you had to link to a 2k highlight speaks volumes
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#278 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:52 pm

ben10simmons wrote:Nets are playing great defense this year, so which Net is most likely to make the All-Defensive team?
https://imgur.com/TXgITF1

The fact that this post doesnt have like 100 And-1s is sad to me. One of the best posts Ive seen so far this season.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#279 » by HotelVitale » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:28 am

BAMAFREAK wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:
C64 wrote:
His minutes won't go up.

His minutes are low, not because of his fouling. It's because of rotation.

No one in memphis is averaging over 32 minutes per game.
Not sure if anyone's noticed how deep Memphis runs into the bench every night but it's usually at least 11 deep. memphis has a plethora of bigs in normal rotation with JJJ, Adams, Aldama, and Clarke. Not to mention Tillman, Brooks, and Roddy can work time on opponent bigs as well.


100%

Not onlt are the Grizz deep, they were also involved in their fair share of blowouts
when ur team is good and u don't have to play in the 4th, that's gonna hurt ur mpg :)

JJJ is so far ahead of everyone else, he's the clear frontrunner atm even he ends the season with 27 mpg



Yep. And those same reasons also keep Ja out of the MVP race. With the Grizz dominating lately, he has rested a lot in the 4th. Jenkins also is strict on rotations early and won’t throw him or JJJ back in just to stop a run.

Ja’s one of my favorite players but he’s not missing MVP because he’s not playing 4th quarters. He plays about the same as Giannis and Embiid and Jokic (all within 32-33mpg) and his stats, while sweet, aren’t up to the crazy standards of the top MVP candidates this year. Plus his efficiency is dead average while lot of the other guys are elite (esp Embiid and holy hell at what Jokic is doing), and there’s also Ja’s defense compared to some of those guys too.

If he played 10% more and had 10% better stats, he’d still be a 2nd tier candidate. No knock on him, just a wild year for the MVP candidates.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#280 » by 80HD » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:52 am

Jaden McDaniels putting in All Defense work while shooting 50 and 40 from the field.

That man is going to be special.

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