NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

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Who is your current NBA MVP? (listed alphabetically)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
51
13%
Luka Doncic
70
18%
Kevin Durant
19
5%
Joel Embiid
25
6%
Nikola Jokic
167
42%
Donovan Mitchell
2
1%
Ja Morant
2
1%
Jayson Tatum
48
12%
Zion Williamson
5
1%
Other (Booker, Curry, Davis, SGA, etc.)
8
2%
 
Total votes: 397

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1641 » by ben10simmons » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:10 pm

I rule-out Giannis 100%, Bucks won't finish high enough to make up for him having inferior stats to Jokic.
And Nuggets look like finishing #1 or #2 (most likely #1), because no matter whom else plays, the Nuggets win if they have Jokic.... so injuries won't stop them.
Ben Simmons Playoffs = 13.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 7.5 assists, .571 field
Draymond Green Playoffs = 11.8 points, 9.0 rebounds, 6.2 assists, .448 field
Rajon Rondo Playoffs = 12.5 points, 5.6 rebounds, 8.5 assists, .440 field
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1642 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:17 pm

jokeboy86 wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:What stops Jokic from getting to 4 In a row?


The media will not give him 4 in a row even if he wins a ring and is Finals MVP this year. If Jokic wins a ring this year I doubt that you'll see anybody in the media say he's unquestionably the best player in the game. The entire concept of Jokic actually being the best player in the league over other stars who get considerably more attention(and ratings/clicks) is something that the media will never ever say because it's bad for business in the same way they feel it was during Duncan's run. Hell, I still have yet to hear any media member go on record and say Jokic's career as a Nugget has passed Melo's(and his Knicks career).

during all the offseason threads here people were saying that no way the media would have give a third MVP, no matter what.
if he keeps dominating the RS and the Nuggets have the best record it's not going to be out of question, as crazy as it sounds.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1643 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:25 pm

LessEyeTest wrote:The man has NEVER played with an all-star.

that's a lie, he played with plenty of them

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1644 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:27 pm

yannisk wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:He's never had a Jrue Holiday or Kris Middleton. (Giannis)
He's never had a Chris Paul or Deandre Ayton. (Booker)

These are the teams he's losing to and/or guys he's competing for MVPs with.


Is Murray that much worse than these guys? He certainly has as good playoff numbers as any of them (before his injury)


bubble murray isn't, but he's far from that now.
if Denver had that kind of player next spring they'd be my clear cut favorites
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1645 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:31 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Jordan also didn't win 3 MVPs by that time, and he wouldn't have even if his team did well, because of playoff success.
not because of playoff success, but because there were very worthy candidates on more successful teams.
In the last couple of years Jokic had the luxury that it didn't happen to him, because he's overall case wasn't really that strong because of the limited team success in the RS
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1646 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:38 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:And this is usually the thing that prevents guys from winning 7-10 MVPs in their career. The whole "LeBron shouldve won 4-5 more MVP" thing has been broken down so much. Really the only MVP LeBron has an argument for is the Rose one, and even then he wasnt even 2nd in voting. But all the other ones, it became crystal clear. LeBron began coasting during large sections of the regular season. Now LeBron coasting was still easily a lock to be All NBA 1st team and all that. But he wasnt putting up MVP seasons.

what's funny to me is that I feel Jokic is "coasting" as well.
he's absolutely not going all out for the MVP, he totally gives zero F about it. He's just extremely good at pacing himself and picking his spots on both sides, becoming suddenly more aggressive when the team needs him while directing the traffic is someone else is hot.
he's doing nothing to pad or protect his numbers, it seems to me this is him "taking it easy"
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1647 » by BelgradeNugget » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:49 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
yannisk wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:He's never had a Jrue Holiday or Kris Middleton. (Giannis)
He's never had a Chris Paul or Deandre Ayton. (Booker)

These are the teams he's losing to and/or guys he's competing for MVPs with.


Is Murray that much worse than these guys? He certainly has as good playoff numbers as any of them (before his injury)


bubble murray isn't, but he's far from that now.
if Denver had that kind of player next spring they'd be my clear cut favorites

IMO there is a chance he will be better than bubble Murray for POs. While his athleticism and ability to beat players off the dribble are not 100%, his shot is falling lately, plays good defense and his playmaking is on the level he has never reached before. Games against Clippers and Pacers without Jokic were the best games I have ever seen Murray play as far as playmaking and control of the game.
He is 25 and there is a lot of improvement left in his game. The same with MPJ, he is 24 and if healthy he can reach another level.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1648 » by jokeboy86 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:02 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
jokeboy86 wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:What stops Jokic from getting to 4 In a row?


The media will not give him 4 in a row even if he wins a ring and is Finals MVP this year. If Jokic wins a ring this year I doubt that you'll see anybody in the media say he's unquestionably the best player in the game. The entire concept of Jokic actually being the best player in the league over other stars who get considerably more attention(and ratings/clicks) is something that the media will never ever say because it's bad for business in the same way they feel it was during Duncan's run. Hell, I still have yet to hear any media member go on record and say Jokic's career as a Nugget has passed Melo's(and his Knicks career).

during all the offseason threads here people were saying that no way the media would have give a third MVP, no matter what.
if he keeps dominating the RS and the Nuggets have the best record it's not going to be out of question, as crazy as it sounds.


I think what happened is the same thing that will continue to make Jokic a consistent MVP every year: star injuries or team records. If you go back and look at a lot of the early MVP ladders and rankings the media had Giannis, Tatum and Luka usually near the top but Jokic was always hovering around. Fast forward. Giannis got hurt and the Bucks may not finish top 3 in the East. The Mavs look like they'll be fighting to stay out of the play-in the rest of the season which probably hurts Luka. Other teams have closed the early gap the Celtics had which probably made Tatum go down a little bit. Other guys like KD, Curry, Zion, got hurt and probably have missed too many games for their teams jump back up to a high seed. I'm actually surprised Ja isn't getting more love but maybe cause Memphis's depth and coaching is getting the bulk of the credit.

To me it's going to come down to Jokic, Tatum, and now Embiid who now has become a sleeper pick. If Philly can continue to move up in the standings and possibly pass Boston and their record is similar to the Nuggets and Embiid doesn't get hurt again(50/50) then I think this would be the year that they give it to him over Jokic unless the Nuggets win 60 games.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1649 » by Statlanta » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:56 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
Statlanta wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:Jokic with the game winner, again. Is there anything this man cannot do?!

Average 30 points per game in a month.

Enjoy those gaudy inefficient numbers while taking a ton of shots and enjoy those close game Ls ….

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Who are you talking too and what team are you talking about?
Eastern Conference #1 Draft Picks: Fultz, Cunningham, Banchero.
Western Conference #1 Draft Picks: Williamson, Ayton, Edwards,
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1650 » by Statlanta » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:58 pm

LessEyeTest wrote:
Statlanta wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:Jokic with the game winner, again. Is there anything this man cannot do?!

Average 30 points per game in a month.


Useless to do so. The meaning of scoring 30ppg isn’t looked at impressively as it was even 5 years ago. Even guys like Trae Young can do that, yet no one thinks of him as a superstar or even an all star these days. He’s not even the best player on his team.

He’d rather provide 55+ PPG while sharing the rock. ;)

I hope you don't think I'm a Hawks fan because I am not. Trae Young could be released today and I wouldn't care.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1651 » by CobraCommander » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:02 pm

Statlanta wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:
Statlanta wrote:Average 30 points per game in a month.

Enjoy those gaudy inefficient numbers while taking a ton of shots and enjoy those close game Ls ….

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Who are you talking too and what team are you talking about?

Pretty much all the teams in NBA. Last night it was Dallas and Boston… Luka put up 41 and another ungodly high rebound game losing to the Rui-less wizards led by KUZ!

It’s really just me joking because I love all the MVP candidates (and you know how I feel about Trae, Ja and SGA even if they not candidates) but the point the guy made about avg 30 for a month is valid except these guys getting 40 and losing so does it matter??
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1652 » by Tennis19 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:37 pm

Jokic has my vote..but freak best player in the game...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1653 » by mcmurphy » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:39 pm

BelgradeNugget wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
yannisk wrote:
Is Murray that much worse than these guys? He certainly has as good playoff numbers as any of them (before his injury)


bubble murray isn't, but he's far from that now.
if Denver had that kind of player next spring they'd be my clear cut favorites

IMO there is a chance he will be better than bubble Murray for POs. While his athleticism and ability to beat players off the dribble are not 100%, his shot is falling lately, plays good defense and his playmaking is on the level he has never reached before. Games against Clippers and Pacers without Jokic were the best games I have ever seen Murray play as far as playmaking and control of the game.
He is 25 and there is a lot of improvement left in his game. The same with MPJ, he is 24 and if healthy he can reach another level.


yeah, I noticed.
this season he already has 7 games (of 41) where has at least 9 assists

in career before this season had 12 games of 345 with at leat 9 assists
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1654 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:35 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=q5eR0f0GwLJ89Q0KYkU-Og
sadly wont sniff mvp voting,
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1655 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:00 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=q5eR0f0GwLJ89Q0KYkU-Og
sadly wont sniff mvp voting,

I wouldnt really say sadly. He doesnt deserve any MVP voting. Dont get me wrong, he is putting up a hell of a season for his age, but ya he's not in the MVP convo.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1656 » by Bostondave » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:10 pm

Sadly I would pick one of the two Euros myself. I picked Jokic here. My forum is Tatum nuts. That kid isn't ready yet and at this point I'd say he'll never be ready to elevate his team. IMO that's what makes an MVP. Not just putting up gaudy offensive numbers but elevating their team as a whole.

If I had to bring it back to America I'd go Giannis next before Tatum. And I bleed green. But I'm not blind.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1657 » by Bostondave » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:13 pm

And kudos to Lebron. I had thought Kareem wasn't catchable, but there you go I guess. Records are made to be broken. Jordan was still better I say.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1658 » by liquidswords » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:20 pm

Bostondave wrote:Sadly I would pick one of the two Euros myself. I picked Jokic here. My forum is Tatum nuts. That kid isn't ready yet and at this point I'd say he'll never be ready to elevate his team. IMO that's what makes an MVP. Not just putting up gaudy offensive numbers but elevating their team as a whole.

If I had to bring it back to America I'd go Giannis next before Tatum. And I bleed green. But I'm not blind.


This is honestly really refreshing to hear from a Celtics fan. I've viewed Tatum in a similar way all season. He's putting up stupid numbers but I never get the sense his production puts his team over the top. Whenever I watch the Celtics, its always the smarts-brogdons-williams-horfords that are making plays down the stretch. Plus, he's had the luxury of having one of the best second options in the league in Brown.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1659 » by Exp0sed » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:22 pm

mcmurphy wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
[/u][/b]

yeah, I noticed.
this season he already has 7 games (of 41) where has at least 9 assists

in career before this season had 12 games of 345 with at leat 9 assists


in the bubble, Murray averaged 6.5 APG in that 7 game Clippers semis
In the WCF he averaged 7.5 APG vs the Lakers, including a 12 assist game in the Nuggets game 3 win

it's more about role and utilization than it is about skill, but fairly reasonable to expect some improvement in the playmaking department as he gains experience and insight into the game, he'll turn 26 next month and was out for a while

If he stays healthy I think we're going to see peak Murray next season or two :P
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#1660 » by Bostondave » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:32 pm

Yes, there're levels, hooks, complications and explanations. SOmeone could take my argument about Tatum not elevating our team and say "whaddayou mean? The Celts have the best record and seem to be tearing the league up.".

Well yes but as I said there're levels, complications, explanations. The Celts are a talented team with a very talented duo leading them. Personally I'd go into a foxhole with Brown as opposed to Tatum, but that's besides the point. The Celts are winning as a function of Tatums numbers of points mainly, and not from things like intangibles and other stats like assists, rebounds, etc. It's complicated and needs and lends itself to explanation but in short his game is self contained. He hasn't reached the point where he elevates his team. He has the ball most of the time so he passes away to another guy that makes the shot. That's a statistical assist but not a real game assist. He didn't create penetration and dish off to a teammate for an easy two. There's a difference and where the hooks, explanations, complications and levels come into play when describing him as MVP. He's not there yet. At this point as sad as it is saying it it might never come for him at this point. He should have gotten it by now I fear.

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