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At this point in the season I’m curious as to what casual observers are noticing different about harden from this year compared to his awful last season. Is he back to be elite

I don't follow the league from close enough anymore to be certain whether he's Top 10 or not, but one think I've noticed: he's playing much better and he's putting up the numbers

No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Jokic was the best player on the floor in the playoffs last year. His team lost...but his play was spectacular.

22ppg 6rpg 11apg (1st in asts) 45FG% 39 3pt%

Top 5 in RAPTOR
Top 8 in RPM
Top 10 in WAR

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

You seem to be talking about 3 different things.
- Top 10
- MVP
- All-NBA
Top 10 is pretty subjective and many do include playoffs. Record may or not matter depending who you ask.
MVP is a regular season award that position doesn’t matter. Record seems to certainly matter.
All-NBA is a regular season honor that positions are considered. Record tends to matter, but not always as much as MVP.
So maybe clarify what you are actually asking, because you are all over the place.

As for James being top 10, no. The top 10 right now is insane, likely the best top 10 in NBA history this year. If not it's near the best. harden has been great this year, but he doesn't have the ability to score like he once did and while he's moving much better than last year, he's certainly lost a step from his apex as well. Most years he'd be a 3rd team all nba guy with his current play...this year, well even that's just too competitive a spot for him to get.

dhsilv2 wrote:

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Jokic was the best player on the floor in the playoffs last year. His team lost...but his was spectacular.

STOP Jokic was literally taken off the court late in the 4th quarter of multiple playoff games because Poole and curry we’re destroying him on switches

Playoffs don’t matter in context to mvp and all nba selections

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

NBA4Lyfe wrote:
Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Jokic was the best player on the floor in the playoffs last year. His team lost...but his was spectacular.

STOP Jokic was literally taken off the court late in the 4th quarter of multiple playoff games because Poole and curry we’re destroying him on switches

Playoffs don’t matter in context to mvp and all nba selections

You brought up Jokic in the playoffs, not me. And he was the best player on the floor.

Myth wrote:

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

You seem to be talking about 3 different things.
- Top 10
- MVP
- All-NBA
Top 10 is pretty subjective and many do include playoffs. Record may or not matter depending who you ask.
MVP is a regular season award that position doesn’t matter. Record seems to certainly matter.
All-NBA is a regular season honor that positions are considered. Record tends to matter, but not always as much as MVP.
So maybe clarify what you are actually asking, because you are all over the place.

I’m strictly asking all nba

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Strange thing to say since playoffs are usually all that matter. A lot of great players try to conserve body and energy during the regular season or even skip games. Jokic more than deserves his status as a top regular season and playoff performer. Basically any all time great is being judged by his performance in the playoffs and ability to carry his team.

Also regular season MVP has nothing to do with playoffs anyway... Harden's game/stats and shooting are usually worse in the playoffs than during the regular season.

Oh he's definitely bounced back.
It's also been a delight to watch him continue to mix up his bag a bit, after years of being so dogmatic with his play style. He's got that midrange counter we all begged for during his prime years when teams would sit on his preferred moves in the playoffs.

But he's obviously nowhere near prime Harden. Prime Harden almost touched 50 points per 100 possessions! Harden stopped his decline, which started years ago, but he didn't measurably reverse it.

I think Harden is probably a top 20 player. I don't see a reasonable way to get him into the top 10 when you consider the players in this league. Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Jokic, Tatum, KD, Shai, Ja, Zion, Lebron, Booker, Mitchell, Lillard, Siakam, Jimmy Butler, Paul George... I think once you start getting near the bottom of that list you can start having Harden arguments. Putting him top 10 would be pretty bold.

Wanted to create a current Harden vs SGA poll.

Well, if the question is whether Harden will or should be one of the 15 guys to make an all-NBA team:

-- Doncic, Curry, Mitchell seem well ahead of him at guard.
-- Booker, Morant, SGA, Halliburton have strong arguments against him at guard.
-- So do DDR and Jaylen Brown, although at least Brown is in my opinion more likely to be voted on as a forward.
-- Some would say Irving and Young have strong arguments against him at guard as well.

But few people would be outraged or totally shocked if Harden made all-NBA.

No he's not. There's a lot of guys who's are having great seasons. Here's the players I think are clearly better than Harden.

1 Giannis
2. Luka
3. Jokic
4. Joel Emiid
5. Jayson Tatum
6. Kevin Durant
7. Stephen Curry
8. JA Morant
9. Zion Williamson
10. Damian Lilliard
11. Donovan Mitchell

Players that are closer to his level, but a bit better than him

12. Devin Brooker
13. Paul George
14. Pascal Siakam
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Jaylen Brown


So this would put Harden around the 17-22 range. In range of someone like Tyrese Halliburton, Demar Derozan, Kyrie Irving, Luari Markkanen etc. He's playing much better than he did last season, where he looked washed. However there's too many players who's having great seasons.

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

ShazamDaShiznt wrote:No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Yes it matters. Do you think those all time great lists leave playoffs out? Otherwise Karl Malone would be a top 10 player of all time because he's 3rd on all time scoring list. You should have specificed in your post asking if he's all nba 1st/2nd material if you wanted not to talk about playoffs. But hey I get it, Harden fans usually try to avoid talking about playoffs.

for people who havent watched him a lot. I dont think hes a top 10 player, but he has an argument for top 15. Reason being is that he has diversified his game.

Harden has begun to take short jumpshots and do shot creation in the midrange. Sam cassel finally got to him. He is shooting double the volume from what he normally does in his career and is making it at a pretty high level. so hes become less reliant on foul baiting.


hes better on spot shots and being more shot ready, the last 10 ish games especially

he has more burst and lift at the bucket. this version of harden is the least likely to be an offensive dud in the postseason.

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

Myth wrote:

NBA4Lyfe wrote:
Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

You seem to be talking about 3 different things.
- Top 10
- MVP
- All-NBA
Top 10 is pretty subjective and many do include playoffs. Record may or not matter depending who you ask.
MVP is a regular season award that position doesn’t matter. Record seems to certainly matter.
All-NBA is a regular season honor that positions are considered. Record tends to matter, but not always as much as MVP.
So maybe clarify what you are actually asking, because you are all over the place.

I’m strictly asking all nba

It may make sense to edit your OP to reflect that then. Since you mentioned top 10, are you asking if he makes 2nd team?

Myth wrote:

NBA4Lyfe wrote:

Myth wrote:You seem to be talking about 3 different things.
- Top 10
- MVP
- All-NBA
Top 10 is pretty subjective and many do include playoffs. Record may or not matter depending who you ask.
MVP is a regular season award that position doesn’t matter. Record seems to certainly matter.
All-NBA is a regular season honor that positions are considered. Record tends to matter, but not always as much as MVP.
So maybe clarify what you are actually asking, because you are all over the place.

I’m strictly asking all nba

It may make sense to edit your OP to reflect that then. Since you mentioned top 10, are you asking if he makes 2nd team?

2nd team all-nba would mean he is top 10 or close to it

and according to this chart harden is top 10

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