The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10

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Vox Populi
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The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#1 » by Vox Populi » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:19 am

There are too many differences between eras to make comparisons fair. There were times when the playing environment favored the big man most. There was a brief time that favored the iso-players. These are now times when three-point shooters are favored most. Yet shooters have only been favored for about 10-15 years, whereas the big man was favored for 50. One could make a case for having 7 big men in the Top 10: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan and KG, which only leaves 3 spots for the others. This is not right as some of those big guys wouldn't be as great today.

Then some guys played on stronger teams than others, for which more credit should be given to their team. Then we have the dilemma of who should drop out if a new contender makes it in.

So can we boil down the selection to ten players using a simple method?

The game of basketball requires five players to be on the court per team. There are five established positions. Pick the two best players in each position. Those are your Top 10 of All-Time. If Steph and Giannis end up in your Top 2 guys for the Point Guard and Power Forward position, that is their case. Simple is sometimes best and fairest.

Point Guard:
Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Isaiah Thomas, Steve Nash, Steph Curry.

Shooting Guard:
Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, James Harden.

Small Forward:
John Havlicek, Larry Bird, Julius Erwing, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Luka Doncic.

Power Forward:
Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Giannis Antetokounmpo.

(The Power Forward position is giving me the most trouble. It is really hard to choose two here compared to other positions. Duncan separates himself from the others with 5 rings but played PF for half his career and had better teams. KG and Giannis have won less rings than Duncan but have better statistics. Malone and Barkley did not win a ring but had weak teams and played in the one true GOAT's era. Dirk was a below average defender but provides the best offense and spacing.)

Center:
Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'neale, Nikola Jokic.

So who are your Top 2 in each position?
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#2 » by JN61 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:25 am

Neither is top 10. Stop it. I would pick neither in my top 5 starting lineups.

Also Jerry West is PG.
Pennebaker wrote:And Bird did it while being a defensive liability. But he also made All-Defensive teams, which was another controversial issue regarding Bird and votes.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#3 » by Vox Populi » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:27 am

JN61 wrote:Neither is top 10. Stop it. I would pick neither in my top 5 starting lineups.

Also Jerry West is PG.

Thank you for sharing your perspective!

So who are your Top 2 in each position?
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#4 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:28 am

JN61 wrote:Neither is top 10. Stop it. I would pick neither in my top 5 starting lineups.

Also Jerry West is PG.


you really are a professional Curry hater, I hope you're getting compensated otherwise it's just sad
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#5 » by WarriorGM » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:29 am

The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#6 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:29 am

Back to the topic, Curry is like right on the fringe of top 10, I don't think Giannis is particularly close yet.

1 title, 2x MVP, 4x 1st team all nba. Not even close to top 10, but he definitely could be by the end of his career
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#7 » by JN61 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:35 am

Vox Populi wrote:
JN61 wrote:Neither is top 10. Stop it. I would pick neither in my top 5 starting lineups.

Also Jerry West is PG.

So who are your Top 2 from each position?


Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Kareem

Big O
Bryant
Bird
Garnett
Wilt

West
Wade
Durant
Malone
Russell

Curry
Harden
Havlicek
Nowitzki
Shaq

Giannis wouldn't even make my next list. Curry just edges his peers and makes to the last list because double MVP.
Pennebaker wrote:And Bird did it while being a defensive liability. But he also made All-Defensive teams, which was another controversial issue regarding Bird and votes.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#8 » by JN61 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:36 am

WarriorGM wrote:The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.

?

Lakers and Celtics are by far the greatest NBA teams. Nothing even comes close. Just because you have followed NBA since 2015 doesn't make rest of us forget.
Pennebaker wrote:And Bird did it while being a defensive liability. But he also made All-Defensive teams, which was another controversial issue regarding Bird and votes.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#9 » by WarriorGM » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:40 am

JN61 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.

?

Lakers and Celtics are by far the greatest NBA teams. Nothing even comes close. Just because you have followed NBA since 2015 doesn't make rest of us forget.


Which Lakers? Which Celtics? We don't even know which version of those teams we're talking about indicate that there are arguments there. When people say the Warriors we know which version of the team they're talking about.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#10 » by Mavrelous » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:49 am

Curry is top 10 for me, Giannis isn't close.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777
This is the list according to RGM comparison board, which has some of the most knowledgeable guys about the league, he's 24 there, the list is from 2020, his insane 21 season + his championship last season catapults him near Larry Bird at 10.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#11 » by WarriorGM » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:00 am

Mavrelous wrote:Curry is top 10 for me, Giannis isn't close.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777
This is the list according to RGM comparison board, which has some of the most knowledgeable guys about the league, he's 24 there, the list is from 2020, his insane 21 season + his championship last season catapults him near Larry Bird at 10.


The RGM comparison board is filled by people who are scared to talk about Curry in an honest way. I wouldn't put much stock in what they have to say.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#12 » by Mavrelous » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:04 am

WarriorGM wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Curry is top 10 for me, Giannis isn't close.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777
This is the list according to RGM comparison board, which has some of the most knowledgeable guys about the league, he's 24 there, the list is from 2020, his insane 21 season + his championship last season catapults him near Larry Bird at 10.


The RGM comparison board is filled by people who are scared to talk about Curry in an honest way. I wouldn't put much stock in what they have to say.

Maybe they do talk about him on an honest way, but you are too biased to recognize it?
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#13 » by TheLand13 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:11 am

JN61 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.

?

Lakers and Celtics are by far the greatest NBA teams. Nothing even comes close. Just because you have followed NBA since 2015 doesn't make rest of us forget.


I think he's talking about in terms of individual teams, in which case he has a valid argument, as the 2017 are arguably the greatest team ever assembled.

I strongly advise not taking anything WarriorGM says seriously. You're talking to a guy who thinks the 2015 Warriors had a weak supporting cast, and his logic here is laughably bad.

With all of that said, Curry's a top ten player of all time. In fact I have him firmly at the number 10 spot as of today. I think he's more than earned that spot too with the incredible body of work he's had and the legacy he's built for himself.

Giannis is not there yet. Can he get there? It kind of feels like he's in a similar situation that LeBron was in when he returned to Cleveland where the expectation was a dynasty, but Curry overshadowed him with what was going on in Golden State, that is until LeBron's Cavs pulled off the 3-1 comeback and made the rest of the world remember who the best player in the world really was. Jokic has overshadowed Giannis and it feels like the Bucks aren't the top dogs in the East anymore. Can that change? Sure, but I'm not liking their chances. They're an aging team and one of their core members is having nagging injury problems.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#14 » by brutalitops » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:11 am

Retiring right now, Curry top 10, Giannis nope but he's 28 and has like 3 prime years left so who knows?
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#15 » by WarriorGM » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:12 am

Mavrelous wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Curry is top 10 for me, Giannis isn't close.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777
This is the list according to RGM comparison board, which has some of the most knowledgeable guys about the league, he's 24 there, the list is from 2020, his insane 21 season + his championship last season catapults him near Larry Bird at 10.


The RGM comparison board is filled by people who are scared to talk about Curry in an honest way. I wouldn't put much stock in what they have to say.

Maybe they do talk about him on an honest way, but you are too biased to recognize it?


After Curry led possibly the most inexperienced roster of the past 40 years to a championship disposing of the rest of the First Team All-NBA along the way, led the team to 3 successive 67+ win seasons, the regular season wins record, the playoffs wins record, received a unanimous MVP—and in that list you mention they placed him behind Chris Paul who has won what again? set what records again?

I am FAR more objective than a lot of that board. If any of them prior to 2022 gave Curry a decent shot of winning another title I'd like to see evidence of it.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#16 » by _NoMas » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:14 am

WarriorGM wrote:The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.


Depends if you mean greatest regular season team (in which he was the best player) or greatest team ever (warriors 2017/18 winners are at least in the debate), where he absolutely wasn’t the best player…
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#17 » by One Last Shot » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:17 am

I'll just post it here


Tier 1
1. Michael Jordan (dominated the poll, 75% of voters ranked him as #1.)

Tier 2
2. Lebron James (13% of voters ranked him as #1)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7% of voters ranked him as #1)

Tier 3
4. Magic Johnson

Tier 4
5. Bill Russell (most polarizing player in the poll. While most voters (93%) put him in their top 12, his ranking was all over the place)
6. Wilt Chamberlain (just like with Russell, highly polarizing even though 93% put him in their top 12)
7. Larry Bird (extremely close margin between Bird and Duncan, their order could be flipped with one vote)
8. Tim Duncan

Tier 5
9. Shaquille O'Neal

Tier 6
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Kobe Bryant (3rd most polarizing player after Russell and Wilt, 81% put him in their top 12)

Tier 7
12. Stephen Curry (72% put him in their top 12)



Kobe
15x All-NBA
12x All-Defensive
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP


Hakeem
12x All-NBA
9x All-Defensive
2x DPOY
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP


Steph
8x All-NBA
1x Finals MVP
2x MVP


Kobe got 11 All-NBA 1st Team, Hakeem got 6 All-NBA 1st Team(only 1 Center per year compare to 2 slots with Forwards and Guards) and Steph got 4 All-NBA 1st Team. Curry got no argument to be in the Top 10.. for now. He's still playing so we'll see.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#18 » by Sofia » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:19 am

“I am far more objective than a swathe of fans of different ages and from every fan base”

wtf is going on in this thread?
seppos

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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#19 » by WarriorGM » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:20 am

_NoMas wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.


Depends if you mean greatest regular season team (in which he was the best player) or greatest team ever (warriors 2017/18 winners are at least in the debate), where he absolutely wasn’t the best player…


The 2017 and 2018 teams without Steph had a 57% win rate. Steph finished the 2018 season after the playoffs with the highest plus-minus in the league—despite missing a third of the games played.
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Re: The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10 

Post#20 » by Mavrelous » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:23 am

WarriorGM wrote:After Curry led possibly the most inexperienced roster of the past 40 years to a championship disposing of the rest of the First Team All-NBA along the way, led the team to 3 successive 67+ win seasons, the regular season wins record, the playoffs wins record, received a unanimous MVP—and in that list you mention they placed him behind Chris Paul who has won what again? set what records again?

I am FAR more objective than a lot of that board. If any of them prior to 2022 gave Curry a decent shot of winning another title I'd like to see evidence of it.


Being objective starts with recognizing that Hakeem 94, Duncan 2003 and Dirk 2011 were with significantly worse rosters than Curry 2015, and in Dirk's case, against infinitely harder competition, and that Curry's run 2017-2019 was with a very stacked team, that's why his achievements in 21 and 22 make a difference in ranking from what he was in 2020 to what he is now.
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