Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM

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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#21 » by tbhawksfan1 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:27 pm

Jokic is my clear #1 in the league today. He is the UNICORN.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#22 » by Infinite Llamas » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:36 pm

Jokic ain’t trying to “catch bodies” or flex after an and-1 or motion that his opponent is too small…which is the stuff that espn feeds to the casuals and brainwash them into thinking that it’s basketball at its best.

But anyone that has invested more than two brain cells into the sport can appreciate the beauty and excitement that is Jokic’s game.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#23 » by zimpy27 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:23 pm

If he retires early then I could absolutely see him topping those stats
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#24 » by BoatsNZones » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:35 pm

mcmurphy wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
B-easy wrote:Jokic is one of the best in the playoffs as well. For some reason a lot of people forgot.

Image


Because whatever he gives you in offense end he gives up in defense end. Teams just hunt the Denver D because it’s Swiss cheese come playoff time


When you have to carry the load of scorer and the playmaking (two roles in team) it's hard to be concentrated (without fouling because you are the fulcrum of the offensive game) also in defence

in the rookie season was very good in defence

Not buying this as an excuse. Plenty of superstars have shouldered the loads as the primary facilitator/scorer for their teams while providing elite defense. And Jokic is not exactly the most active offensive player. He's rarely moving more than 8 feet across the paint in the post without the ball in his hands, and he has the ball in his hands less than virtually any other star player in the NBA (this is not a negative, I think it's a smart + clearly effective strategy, but it's a fact).

It's worth mentioning that in the Nuggets only real playoff run in his tenure, Murray led the team in both points and assists, but AD/Bron did in fact completely exploit Jokic defensively in that WCF. The Warriors did in the first round last season as well.

I'm a big fan of Jokic, but he simply doesn't have the athleticism to avoid being exploited defensively in the current NBA against the right playoff matchups. It won't come up as much on the day to day grind of a regular season, but he can be schemed for when it matters. It's on the Nuggets to do their best to shore up his deficiencies there if they want to actually take home a title (granted, their most pressing concern over the years has been health).
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#25 » by dooki667 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:45 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
Because whatever he gives you in offense end he gives up in defense end. Teams just hunt the Denver D because it’s Swiss cheese come playoff time


When you have to carry the load of scorer and the playmaking (two roles in team) it's hard to be concentrated (without fouling because you are the fulcrum of the offensive game) also in defence

in the rookie season was very good in defence

Not buying this as an excuse. Plenty of superstars have shouldered the loads as the primary facilitator/scorer for their teams while providing elite defense. And Jokic is not exactly the most active offensive player. He's rarely moving more than 8 feet across the paint in the post without the ball in his hands, and he has the ball in his hands less than virtually any other star player in the NBA (this is not a negative, I think it's a smart + clearly effective strategy, but it's a fact).

It's worth mentioning that in the Nuggets only real playoff run in his tenure, Murray led the team in both points and assists, but AD/Bron did in fact completely exploit Jokic defensively in that WCF. The Warriors did in the first round last season as well.

I'm a big fan of Jokic, but he simply doesn't have the athleticism to avoid being exploited defensively in the current NBA against the right playoff matchups. It won't come up as much on the day to day grind of a regular season, but he can be schemed for when it matters. It's on the Nuggets to do their best to shore up his deficiencies there if they want to actually take home a title (granted, their most pressing concern over the years has been health).

He's entering period most players have prime and peaks so unless the Nuggets f it up these next few years should tell alot. I wouldn't bet against him.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#26 » by LessEyeTest » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:50 pm

Everyone was busy looking for the next face of the NBA. They looked at Giannis, they looked Doncic, some looked at Embiid (LOL!), but the reality was in front of everyone's eyes for the past couple years.

Deny it all you want, but Jokic is HIM.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#27 » by Infinite Llamas » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:55 pm

Put Jokic from now into the bubble and I think Denver wins that series easily. He’s waaaaaay better now than he was then…and even then he was pretty fantastic.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#28 » by Peregrine01 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:01 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:Put Jokic from now into the bubble and I think Denver wins that series easily. He’s waaaaaay better now than he was then…and even then he was pretty fantastic.


The biggest difference IMO is his aggressiveness. I think his skill set was largely there then. But he suddenly realized that he can score inside the 3 point arc at will. Think he can still be a lot more aggressive looking to score. Yeah he’s a great passer but he’s also probably the league’s most reliable bucket getter as well.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#29 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:01 pm

The other crazy thing to think about with him. His game should age unbelievably well. He has the old man at the Y game. There is nothing about his game that makes me think to myself, oh he's really going to slow down once he hits 33-35 years old.

I caught the end of MJ's career, but Ive never seen someone master the complete side of the offense as Jokic has. I really dont think there is a flaw with him on the offensive side.

Probably the best low post game in the league
Best passer in the league
Best mid range shooter in the league
38% from 3 and 80+% from the FT line

He is the closest thing to flawless on the offensive end Ive seen in this sport.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#30 » by tmorgan » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:06 pm

I’ll say this:

If you’re a good+ NBA athlete with limited self-creation skills, there’s no better place to be than in Denver with Jokic. I’m looking at you KCP, Bruce Brown, Aaron Gordon, etc.

Did Kenneth Faried leave the Nuggets by choice? If so, biggest mistake he ever made.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#31 » by Peregrine01 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:09 pm

tmorgan wrote:I’ll say this:

If you’re a good+ NBA athlete with limited self-creation skills, there’s no better place to be than in Denver with Jokic. I’m looking at you KCP, Bruce Brown, Aaron Gordon, etc.

Did Kenneth Faried leave the Nuggets by choice? If so, biggest mistake he ever made.


I have to check this but I think every player that has played with Jokic hit their career best marks scoring with him than in any other place they played in.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#32 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:11 pm

tmorgan wrote:I’ll say this:

If you’re a good+ NBA athlete with limited self-creation skills, there’s no better place to be than in Denver with Jokic. I’m looking at you KCP, Bruce Brown, Aaron Gordon, etc.

Did Kenneth Faried leave the Nuggets by choice? If so, biggest mistake he ever made.


MPJ is in that group as well, he is horrible at creating his own shot. But damn is he the perfect fit to go next to Jokic, a 6'10 sharpshooter, thats great for Jokic to play with and great for MPJ who gets to play to his strengths as well. Ill also add on, Im not sure if there is any kind of type of player where playing in Denver wouldnt be the best case scenario for you. Even if youre a star player that likes to dribble the ball, hell Jokic aint even close to being first on this team in Time Per Possession. Murray still gets plenty of time to dribble and do PnR and so on. You just get the benefit of when you dont have the ball, you have the best passer in the game who will pass you the ball whenever you get open and the defense will always be focused on stopping Jokic first.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#33 » by Heej » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:21 pm

parapooper wrote:He also has the last name starting with "J" that's a must for GOAT candidates

Facts. He's really right up there with Bill Jussell
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#34 » by nomansland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:30 pm

tmorgan wrote:I’ll say this:

If you’re a good+ NBA athlete with limited self-creation skills, there’s no better place to be than in Denver with Jokic. I’m looking at you KCP, Bruce Brown, Aaron Gordon, etc.

Did Kenneth Faried leave the Nuggets by choice? If so, biggest mistake he ever made.


No, the Nuggets just let him go when his contract expired. On his last contract he was slammed on realgm as one of the worst contracts in the league and I kind of felt bad for him because he was a hard worker and fun to watch. But he could never develop an outside shot and was a bit too small to defend as a PF, so he was out of the league shortly afterward.
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Re: Jokic is coming - career PER WS/48 BPM 

Post#35 » by Exp0sed » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:39 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:Put Jokic from now into the bubble and I think Denver wins that series easily. He’s waaaaaay better now than he was then…and even then he was pretty fantastic.


The biggest difference IMO is his aggressiveness. I think his skill set was largely there then. But he suddenly realized that he can score inside the 3 point arc at will. Think he can still be a lot more aggressive looking to score. Yeah he’s a great passer but he’s also probably the league’s most reliable bucket getter as well.


he was 23-24 years old back then, Murray was very young as well
obviously Jokic has improved (not that he wasn't stellar back then but it's a matter of degree obviously) since then

not just offensively btw, defensively as well

that series would def look different now, but that Laker team was pretty damn tough to beat since AD was hitting jumpshots in an open gym in a way he hasn't before or since and without HCA

Lakers still the favorites imo, if u put this Jokic into that Nuggets team vs the Lakers

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