Pat Riley Believes Kareem is the GOAT MJ Is "In The Conversation"

[Joao Saraiva]

It's not about who can be the GOAT, it's about the man literally had his Miami Heat franchise RETIRE Michael Jordan's #23 jersey and Jordan did not play in Miami!

How??? His actions doing the jersey retirement speak volumes over what is coming out of his mouth.

He didn't retire Kareem's #33 jersey in Miami. Because he had Alonzo Mourning? If he felt Kareem was the GOAT he could've said hey Z come up off that #33 it's going in the rafters bruh.

Did he have the chance to do so when Kareem retired? Was he in the same position when he was when MJ retired? Asking for a friend.

My friend told me to tell you to tell your friend Riley has been in Miami for over 2 decades, plenty of time to retire Kareem's jersey.

If Kareem is Riley's GOAT and meant that much to basketball was he not worthy or popular enough to have that same honor bestowed upon him?

Well... when Kareem retired he wasn't there. So it's not the same. Tell that to your friend.

It wouldn't make sense after those years he'd come and say... oh yeah let's retire. You either do it at the moment or don't.

Obviously he sees MJ in very high regard. And him having KAJ or anyone else doesn't mean he doesn't acknowledge MJ as one of the main figures of the NBA and maybe even its' biggest icon.

[NeoDragonKnight]

Greats of specific eras I have no problem being acknowledged as GOATs for people, they are all legit as their accolades speak for themselves. As people have said, Russel, MJ, Kareem, LBJ, all in the conversation and thats fine.

[chuck_wagon44]

Then why did he retire MJ's number and not Kareem's? LOL

[Billl]

I think most of this board is probably too young to remember, but Kareem's final year really showed how well he was respected and appreciated. It was basically a year long tribute in every arena he went to. Everyone in the league understood the level of talent and commitment it took to sustain such a high level of play over such a long time. It wasn't just the years either. The guy had 7 seasons where he averaged over 40 mpg and for 5 of those 7, he played 81 or 82 regular season games plus playoffs. You can certainly argue that you would take MJ for a particular season or certainly for a playoff series, but it's also arguable that Kareem had the greatest total body of work for a career.

[3toheadmelo]

MJ is my goat but everyone has their own opinion. i respect pat's

[The Explorer]

I don't have a problem with anyone who puts Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, or Russell as their goat. To me James is not really in the conversation due to his team hopping, LeGMing, hiring and firing his own coaches, etc. No one player has had as much power as he's had, yet he still doesn't match up to the resumes of the other GOAT candidates.

[WherePipAt]

"No player will ever wear the number 23 for the Heat ever again. You're the best."

Pat Riley's words to MJ when they retired his number lol. I don't have a problem with him him saying Kareem is the best but at one point he definitely thought MJ was the GOAT.

[Ein Sof]

People starting to wake up to the reality of MJ. You love to see it.

[mademan]

I don't have a problem with anyone who puts Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, or Russell as their goat. To me James is not really in the conversation due to his team hopping, LeGMing, hiring and firing his own coaches, etc. No one player has had as much power as he's had, yet he still doesn't match up to the resumes of the other GOAT candidates.

?

You know Kareem had 1 ring until he hopped to the Lakers right? lol

[ShulaDon92]

Then why did he retire MJ's number and not Kareem's? LOL

Oh! Cooked em!

[ShulaDon92]

Maybe Riley changed his mind after thinking about it for years and years and the Jordan jersey has to stay up cause it's already cooked.

[The Explorer]

I don't have a problem with anyone who puts Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, or Russell as their goat. To me James is not really in the conversation due to his team hopping, LeGMing, hiring and firing his own coaches, etc. No one player has had as much power as he's had, yet he still doesn't match up to the resumes of the other GOAT candidates.

?

You know Kareem had 1 ring until he hopped to the Lakers right? lol

No. He was traded to the Lakers, he didn't team hop the way James did. Plus, Lakers didn't have success right away after the trade. They were actually under .500 his first year there. Magic came 3 years later.

[mademan]

I don't have a problem with anyone who puts Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, or Russell as their goat. To me James is not really in the conversation due to his team hopping, LeGMing, hiring and firing his own coaches, etc. No one player has had as much power as he's had, yet he still doesn't match up to the resumes of the other GOAT candidates.

?

You know Kareem had 1 ring until he hopped to the Lakers right? lol

No. He was traded to the Lakers, he didn't team hop the way James did. Plus, Lakers didn't have success right away after the trade. They were actually under .500 his first year there. Magic came 3 years later.

ya, and then they drafted a player who led the team to titles. I dont understand how the method matters more than the result? Kareem teamed up with Magic in LA and if he didnt, he, wouldnt have won 6 titles. You think it matters that he lucked out and got Magic vs Lebron taking control and deciding to get Wade? Same result end of the day. He teamed up with another hall of fame talent and won multiple titles

[The Explorer]

?

You know Kareem had 1 ring until he hopped to the Lakers right? lol

No. He was traded to the Lakers, he didn't team hop the way James did. Plus, Lakers didn't have success right away after the trade. They were actually under .500 his first year there. Magic came 3 years later.

ya, and then they drafted a player who led the team to titles. I dont understand how the method matters more than the result? Kareem teamed up with Magic in LA and if he didnt, he, wouldnt have won 6 titles. You think it matters that he lucked out and got Magic vs Lebron taking control and deciding to get Wade? Same result end of the day. He teamed up with another hall of fame talent and won multiple titles

It matters because not all rings have the same value. You think what he and Durant did was respectable? If 5 MVP candidates teamed up on minimum contracts and won the title you think that's the same as a Hakeem or Dirk ring because at the end of the day the result is the same?

[mademan]

No. He was traded to the Lakers, he didn't team hop the way James did. Plus, Lakers didn't have success right away after the trade. They were actually under .500 his first year there. Magic came 3 years later.

ya, and then they drafted a player who led the team to titles. I dont understand how the method matters more than the result? Kareem teamed up with Magic in LA and if he didnt, he, wouldnt have won 6 titles. You think it matters that he lucked out and got Magic vs Lebron taking control and deciding to get Wade? Same result end of the day. He teamed up with another hall of fame talent and won multiple titles

It matters because not all rings have the same value. You think what he and Durant did was respectable? If 5 MVP candidates teamed up on minimum contracts and won the title you think that's the same as a Hakeem or Dirk ring because at the end of the day the result is the same?

But your difference is a difference of process, not result. Youre not even arguing the same thing here.

If KD went to the Warriors as a FA or if he was by happenstance drafted by the Warriors alongside Curry/Klay/Dray, does it make a difference? The end result here is the same, with them having an overwhelmingly talented team, no? I have no idea how the process it took for them to get here matters.

KAJ moved to the Lakers and was handed possibly the best player in the NBA in Magic at the time. Lebron decided to move to Miami or Cleveland to play with other HOF'ers (at least in the Miami case, not sure if Ky is a clearcut HOF'er). How does that process matter when we arrive at the same place (KAJ actually got himself to a nicer position)

[jokeboy86]

Maybe Riley changed his mind after thinking about it for years and years and the Jordan jersey has to stay up cause it's already cooked.

I think this is probably true. People forget that when they retired MJ's jersey the only real successful era they had was with the Mourning led teams who never were able to get over the hump and his career wasn't officially over yet because of course he would've been the 1st player. I also think Riley thought he was just doing what he thought the league was eventually going to do(especially with Stern in charge who basically was Jordan's son). But again this also the same franchise that retired Dan Marino's number as well. I think now they're probably going to retire guys that truly were meaningful to the franchise. Like Lebron is next, Haslem probably too and also Butler. Possibly Herro and Adebayo too because Riley and Spo seem to like them so I could see them having long careers with the Heat.

[Brandon_Roy7]

I just can't get over my head as why anyone would not make MJ the goat in basketball. LIKE THE DUDE MADE BASKETBALL GLOBAL. The dude actually played basketball for the fans and wanted to keep playing even when injured or sick. The whole " oh he retired in his prime" and blah blah. Like what a weak ass argument. We're all human beings. His father passed away and wanted to try something his father liked. Like how can you **** hate on a guy like that? He still came back and whooped some ass again for another 3 peat. I just don't get it. The amount of legendary stories this player has is crazy. Someone PLEASE enlighten me.

BTW: I get it, its annoying to hear from fans saying MJ being the goat. With fans saying " 6 rings never lost blah blah.... " Weak arguments . How about 9 out of 15 seasons he has played 82 games. You know there's a problem in the nba when I mention that as an argument. How about whopping a bunch of nba all stars ass with a college team? Like thats insane... Like someone please enlighten me whats better than that.....

[Ayt]

Nobody that wins the genetic lottery should even be part of the discussion. So no Karee, Wilt, Shaq, or Lebron. Those guys were freak outliers whose games were predicated and almost entirely dependent on them being physically dominant. Guys like MJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe, West, Oscar, etc were not. So as basketball players they're more well-rounded and skilled

Jordan didn't win the genetic lottery? He is the most explosively athletic player I've ever seen at his height, and he had gigantic hands. What kind of drugs are you on and can you share them?

Then why did he retire MJ's number and not Kareem's? LOL

Marketing, how does it work. LOL.

[Ayt]

Kareem won the MVP 5 of 7 years during his prime. He was insanely dominant. Imagine that now.

Beyond his insane dominance during his peak, he had absurd longevity. He has an outstanding argument for being in the conversation as the best player of all time.