RealGM

I looked at career heaves for ball handlers. Its look funny, but amount of attempts tell alot about stat paders

Lowry 48
Conley 41

Harden 18
Westbrook 14
Lillard 22
Young 4
Irving 13

Lebron 04-11 31
Lebron 12-23 3

Doncic 35
Kobe 54
Curry 101

I dont understand what the opening post is supposed to be saying lol. Sorry

I assume this is end of quarters or end of the shot clock possessions?

If so, I'd say it's actually the opposite of stat padders. A lot of players will shy away from them because they're extremely low percentage shots and so it lowers shooting percentages.

Guys like Lowry and Conley are generally known as winners, and neither have ever particularly cared about their stats. So I see their high numbers here as an indication that they're just trying to keep playing hard for as long as possible until the buzzer sounds at the end of quarters.

aminiaturebuddha wrote:I assume this is end of quarters or end of the shot clock possessions?

If so, I'd say it's actually the opposite of stat padders. A lot of players will shy away from them because they're extremely low percentage shots and so it lowers shooting percentages.

Guys like Lowry and Conley are generally known as winners, and neither have ever particularly cared about their stats. So I see their high numbers here as an indication that they're just trying to keep playing hard for as long as possible until the buzzer sounds at the end of quarters.

I think OP is using the term "stat padder" and applying it to guys worried about their percentages. A missed FG is a negative stat so guys worried about their stats will avoid them. The implication is that guy who just wanna win just go for it every time, hunting for any possible advantage, however small, or damaging to their numbers.

Players are in groups, so need to have brains to understand who is who

I don't get obsession fans have about heaves, they never ever ever ever go in.

You can look at the amount of heaves taken each year by volume heave takers and they might make one. They go for years without making any.

Stephen Curry is the greatest shooter ever, has taken 101 heaves and only made 5 in 859 games. 5 in 13 years.

I doubt players care about their percentages that much and more so, they just aren't trying their hardest to take a shot that they are most likely gonna miss.

Lebron certainly caring about a lot of other things than winning.

cupcakesnake wrote:

aminiaturebuddha wrote:I assume this is end of quarters or end of the shot clock possessions?

If so, I'd say it's actually the opposite of stat padders. A lot of players will shy away from them because they're extremely low percentage shots and so it lowers shooting percentages.

Guys like Lowry and Conley are generally known as winners, and neither have ever particularly cared about their stats. So I see their high numbers here as an indication that they're just trying to keep playing hard for as long as possible until the buzzer sounds at the end of quarters.

I think OP is using the term "stat padder" and applying it to guys worried about their percentages. A missed FG is a negative stat so guys worried about their stats will avoid them. The implication is that guy who just wanna win just go for it every time, hunting for any possible advantage, however small, or damaging to their numbers.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I wasn't quite sure which point OP was trying to make.

Vox Populi wrote:I dont understand what the opening post is supposed to be saying lol. Sorry

The voice of the people!

cupcakesnake wrote:

aminiaturebuddha wrote:I assume this is end of quarters or end of the shot clock possessions?

If so, I'd say it's actually the opposite of stat padders. A lot of players will shy away from them because they're extremely low percentage shots and so it lowers shooting percentages.

Guys like Lowry and Conley are generally known as winners, and neither have ever particularly cared about their stats. So I see their high numbers here as an indication that they're just trying to keep playing hard for as long as possible until the buzzer sounds at the end of quarters.

I think OP is using the term "stat padder" and applying it to guys worried about their percentages. A missed FG is a negative stat so guys worried about their stats will avoid them. The implication is that guy who just wanna win just go for it every time, hunting for any possible advantage, however small, or damaging to their numbers.

Thanks for explaining it!

So I guess the OP is trying to say these guys just go for the win and do not care whether their stats look efficient.

Curry 101
Kobe 54
Lowry 48
Conley 41
Doncic 35
Lebron 04-11 31

While these guys do not make heaves because they really care about their stats looking efficient.

Lillard 22
Harden 18
Westbrook 14
Irving 13
Young 4
Lebron 12-23 3

Guess I have to agree.

What threw me were the extra numbers next to LeBron. Thought it was his FGM/FGA until realized it doesn't add up. Then recognized he's talking years. Young LeBron vs old LeBron. Not sure why only LeBron is split up here. I bet other players are not consistent in this measure through their career

There’s a thread today asking why stars don’t participate in the dunk contest and most of the mentions were because of Lebron being a coward which influenced the players. I would argue Lebron had an influence on this one too and it’s all about protecting your field goal percentages. Players follow whatever the best players do. Lebron notoriously would kick it out to teammates while not taking the shot or dribble out the clock and then pretend he got it off.

threethehardway wrote:I don't get obsession fans have about heaves, they never ever ever ever go in.

You can look at the amount of heaves taken each year by volume heave takers and they might make one. They go for years without making any.

Stephen Curry is the greatest shooter ever, has taken 101 heaves and only made 5 in 859 games. 5 in 13 years.

I doubt players care about their percentages that much and more so, they just aren't trying their hardest to take a shot that they are most likely gonna miss.

Maybe not heaves, but the amount of buzzers beaters at the end of quarters against the Bucks this year has been insane. So many rush up the court, call a timeout or long 3s. It's hard to categorize it but I definitely see players who hold off and let the shot clock run out instead of doing a turn around jumper or a rushed shot against clock. Jordan Nwora is the worst at this cause you can see him purposely slow his shot so it doesn't count. These guys care about their percentages.

ETA: No idea if it counts as a heave, but this is an example. Some guys would let the 2 seconds run out while others let it fly. Like you said, it might not mean much most times, but pushing to get a shot off whether it is a heave or floater can make a difference.
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022200723&PlayerID=201145&RangeType=0&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612743&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

PierceFan4ever wrote:There’s a thread today asking why stars don’t participate in the dunk contest and most of the mentions were because of Lebron being a coward which influenced the players. I would argue Lebron had an influence on this one too and it’s all about protecting your field goal percentages. Players follow whatever the best players do. Lebron notoriously would kick it out to teammates while not taking the shot or dribble out the clock and then pretend he got it off.

It's not just heaves with Lebron, he prefers to pass the ball on clutch plays rather than take the shot.

I thought this was going to be about Reaves and OP
Made a typo

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Maybe not heaves, but the amount of buzzers beaters at the end of quarters against the Bucks this year has been insane. So many rush up the court, call a timeout or long 3s. It's hard to categorize it but I definitely see players who hold off and let the shot clock run out instead of doing a turn around jumper or a rushed shot against clock. Jordan Nwora is the worst at this cause you can see him purposely slow his shot so it doesn't count. These guys care about their percentages.

ETA: No idea if it counts as a heave, but this is an example. Some guys would let the 2 seconds run out while others let it fly. Like you said, it might not mean much most times, but pushing to get a shot off whether it is a heave or floater can make a difference.
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022200723&PlayerID=201145&RangeType=0&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612743&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

Yeah, that's not counted as a heave, that's an actual shot.

And it's not that the guys care about their percentages, it's the fact that they got a bad look at it and they have a 0 percent chance of making it.

If you look at someone like Curry, who takes actual heaves, he only takes 8 to 10 a year. Jordan Poole who loves to take actual heaves, took 5 last year. Ja Morant loves to take heaves, he took 2 last year.

Realistically, a player might get a real heave 3 times a year. And the other times, it's probably an actual deep shot.

The obsession fans have about players not taking heaves is just weird, when they often do if they have a good look at it or they might actually advance the ball and try to take a deep shot when the game is close.

threethehardway wrote:I don't get obsession fans have about heaves, they never ever ever ever go in.

You can look at the amount of heaves taken each year by volume heave takers and they might make one. They go for years without making any.

Stephen Curry is the greatest shooter ever, has taken 101 heaves and only made 5 in 859 games. 5 in 13 years.

I doubt players care about their percentages that much and more so, they just aren't trying their hardest to take a shot that they are most likely gonna miss.

They absolutely care. The fake "oh I just missed getting it off in time" shot at the buzzer when they easily had enough time is proof enough. They aren't fooling anyone.

For most of his career Westbrook never played at the end of the first and third quarter, I am sure same is true for a lot of other star players, it's a typical substitution pattern in the league. So this obviously seriously limits the chance for heaves.

One star player who's really blatant about never wanting to take such shots and even admitted it in a interview is Durant. He was the one who usually finished the first and third quarter for OKC yet he had a grand total of 3 heaves in all of his seasons there. Then he had 5 in 2 years for GSW. And a total of 0 since then.

Most critiques of LeBron on here are bull****, not least of which is the stat-padding one. His absolute unwillingness to take heaves though is one of the few criticisms that actually hold water. I don't understand it at all. A heave every few games or so is not going to put any kind of significant dent in shooting percentages. And he used to be one of the best at it too.

Vox Populi wrote:I dont understand what the opening post is supposed to be saying lol. Sorry

It's basically a LeBron bash/Curry uplift post. Enjoy