How is bringing Harden on this Rockets Team a good idea?

Gusto1903 · Post #1 » by **Gusto1903** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 1:22 pm

Like, half the roster are egoistic, volume scorers, that couldnt coexist with Harden. Im looking at Green and Porter especially. The Defense is bad. Alpi needs the Ball himself to cook. The Coach has no idea of anything.

Surely there are changes coming right?

God Squad · Post #2 » by **God Squad** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 1:28 pm

Terrible idea. But I guess the reasoning is he's a homegrown all star and Houston could use his playmaking in the worst way.

Fo-Real · Post #3 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 2:28 pm

Could mean you can trade one of the young dudes who you no longer want to deal with for actual value and fit in another high value player?

chilluminati · Post #4 » by **chilluminati** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 2:40 pm

One could argue that Houstons core is good enough to surround a star and make the team work.

Another could argue that it makes 0 sense, and would ruin the rockets by taking a step backwards.

In the end, I'm just here to watch whichever trainwreck James is a part of.

Lockdown504090 · Post #5 » by **Lockdown504090** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 2:50 pm

Harden wants a max from Philly. He’s just creating pressure with this smoke and Philly knows it. There are 0 teams that want harden on a max deal

HotelVitale · Post #6 » by **HotelVitale** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:02 pm

Gusto1903 wrote:Like, half the roster are egoistic, volume scorers, that couldnt coexist with Harden. Im looking at Green and Porter especially. The Defense is bad. Alpi needs the Ball himself to cook. The Coach has no idea of anything. Surely there are changes coming right?

I don't think it's a good idea obviously but here's my best argument: Harden isn't much of a leader but he's very very good at organizing the offense on-court and getting people into effective places. The Rockets' offense is random chaos atm and dumping Porter for Harden would sort of instantly solve that. From play one he would have them spreading the floor and understanding how to play from there to get open shots on the perimeter, and getting open shots and touches in motion would simplify the game for guys like J Smith and Green. He would also be really good at getting the ball to Sengun in his best spots--he's unusually good at entry/post passes as well as pn'r passes to Embiid.

Tony Parker · Post #7 » by **Tony Parker** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:09 pm

Its a good idea, cause they have no real reason to tank next year.
At least he is going to help their talents be somewhat competitive and learn how to win

-Luke- · Post #8 » by **-Luke-** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:09 pm

Someone needs to get the ball to Wembanyama next season. They can't have him standing around while Green and Porter take terrible shot after terrible shot. He'll ask for a trade after his rookie season.

hippesthippo · Post #9 » by **hippesthippo** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:19 pm

If he played like a Chris Paul in his first year in PHO, sure that would make sense.

Anything to get rid of KPJ.

king_james_vers · Post #10 » by **king_james_vers** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:32 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:Harden wants a max from Philly. He’s just creating pressure with this smoke and Philly knows it. There are 0 teams that want harden on a max deal

It has to be this. Him going back to HOU makes no sense. Maybe if he was like, 38, and on his last legs, I could see him finishing there and being a mentor. But he's still a good player, and can still a force on a team that competes for titles. So, it's gotta be a leverage move.

OriginalRed · Post #11 » by **OriginalRed** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:58 pm

It's not, this is purely a negotiating tactic by Harden to get as much as he can from Philly after he took a pay cut for them to sign more players. I don't believe Philly will let Harden just walk but they're definitely not giving him a max deal unless maybe they win a championship and even that might not be enough to warrant it lol.

ocelot17 · Post #12 » by **ocelot17** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:59 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=QOh-msvIsF7IYJKxnclD1Q

HotelVitale · Post #13 » by **HotelVitale** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 4:13 pm

Tony Parker wrote:Its a good idea, cause they have no real reason to tank next year. At least he is going to help their talents be somewhat competitive and learn how to win

Next year, sure, but they'd have to give him a max (or near) that will have him making like $55-60m a year in 3 or 4 years. Not necessarily that bad considering they'll have a ton of cap space, but it's still going to be a big chunk of $ tied up in someone at the exact opposite of their timeline.

Kiss of Death · Post #14 » by **Kiss of Death** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 4:13 pm

I personally hope they go another direction but…

MOST of the Rockets issues could be solved simply by having someone who can competently run an offense. Harden can absolutely do that. They could also get that from other players.

If he doesn’t take up all the cap space and try to be a GM again (he’s the one responsible for the Westbrook trade), I would be ok with it.

KodiakBear · Post #15 » by **KodiakBear** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 4:14 pm

Yeah it is a weird story. There really isn't a reason for either side to want to be together. The only reason Harden could want to go there is because he felt bad with how he left a few years ago and wants to make it right, but that ain't it.

TheSuzerain · Post #16 » by **TheSuzerain** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 4:17 pm

Gusto1903 wrote:Like, half the roster are egoistic, volume scorers, that couldnt coexist with Harden. Im looking at Green and Porter especially. The Defense is bad. Alpi needs the Ball himself to cook. The Coach has no idea of anything.

Surely there are changes coming right?

Replacing terrible egoistic volume scorers with a competent egoistic volume scorer with actual playmaking chops seems like a fantastic idea.

Scalabrine · Post #17 » by **Scalabrine** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 5:05 pm

Tony Parker wrote:Its a good idea, cause they have no real reason to tank next year.
At least he is going to help their talents be somewhat competitive and learn how to win

If they are looking at it with that lens then that organization has way bigger problems. It's a sunk cost. The pick is gone. You shouldn't give a 34 year old Harden a full max contract. I'd give him a 2 years with a team option for year 3. Anything more than that is trouble.

If the Rockets save the Sixers from having to give him that deal that I think they should consider themselves lucky in the long-run. Even if it means a possible Embiid trade request. In my mind, this team has 1 more year after this season with this current core. By then, Embiid is 30, and you won't want to go into it with a full rebuild around him. Let some other team that is willing to give their assets away for a shot a try.

Adam Stern · Post #18 » by **Adam Stern** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 5:12 pm

We questioned why would Chris Paul go to Houston. We joked there wouldn't be enough balls, said it was a horrible fit, and predicted spectacular failure.
Instead it resulted in Houston being the best team in the league.

We questioned why would LeBron leave a championship culture in Miami to go back to a 33 win Cavs team full of young immature gunners.
We also said the Cavs would be crazy to immediately trade the number one pick they just drafted.
Instead it resulted in 4 straight NBA finals and a championship.

We questioned why a 34 win Phoenix team would trade for an aging $40M a year CP3 who didn't match their timeline at all.
Instead it resulted in a trip to the NBA Finals.

I'm not suggesting the Rockets will immediately jump back up the West's pecking order, but apparently elite playmakers seem to find a way to make the machine work.

Bornstellar · Post #19 » by **Bornstellar** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 5:18 pm

Adam Stern wrote:We questioned why would Chris Paul go to Houston. We joked there wouldn't be enough balls, said it was a horrible fit, and predicted spectacular failure.
Instead it resulted in Houston being the best team in the league.

We questioned why would LeBron leave a championship culture in Miami to go back to a 33 win Cavs team full of young immature gunners.
We also said the Cavs would be crazy to immediately trade the number one pick they just drafted.
Instead it resulted in 4 straight NBA finals and a championship.

We questioned why a 34 win Phoenix team would trade for an aging $40M a year CP3 who didn't match their timeline at all.
Instead it resulted in a trip to the NBA Finals.

I'm not suggesting the Rockets will immediately jump back up the West's pecking order, but apparently elite playmakers seem to find a way to make the machine work.

These are fairly poor analogies imo

-Chris Paul and James Harden (at that time) were top 10 players in the league. Houston currently doesnt have anyone sniffing top 10 and Harden is no longer a top 10 player (don't recall anyone predicting a "spectacular fail" either)
-LeBron is a top 3 player ever and best player in the league at that time, something Harden is not, and teamed up with two other young all-stars, which Houston does not have
-No one really said that in 2014. It was generally viewed as the right move and most people had the new look Cavs winning multiple rings until the Warriors emerged that season
-Phoenix already had another all-star and top 5 player at his position in Booker, and the #1 pick in the draft, Ayton, something Houston does not have. That PHX team also started showing signs of their emergence prior to CP3s arrival in the bubble when they were undefeated

I get what you're saying but those situations are way different than old Harden going back to the worst team in the league

Adam Stern · Post #20 » by **Adam Stern** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 6:08 pm

Bornstellar wrote:
Spoiler:
Adam Stern wrote:We questioned why would Chris Paul go to Houston. We joked there wouldn't be enough balls, said it was a horrible fit, and predicted spectacular failure.
Instead it resulted in Houston being the best team in the league.

We questioned why would LeBron leave a championship culture in Miami to go back to a 33 win Cavs team full of young immature gunners.
We also said the Cavs would be crazy to immediately trade the number one pick they just drafted.
Instead it resulted in 4 straight NBA finals and a championship.

We questioned why a 34 win Phoenix team would trade for an aging $40M a year CP3 who didn't match their timeline at all.
Instead it resulted in a trip to the NBA Finals.

I'm not suggesting the Rockets will immediately jump back up the West's pecking order, but apparently elite playmakers seem to find a way to make the machine work.

These are fairly poor analogies imo

-Chris Paul and James Harden (at that time) were top 10 players in the league. Houston currently doesnt have anyone sniffing top 10 and Harden is no longer a top 10 player (don't recall anyone predicting a "spectacular fail" either)
-LeBron is a top 3 player ever and best player in the league at that time, something Harden is not, and teamed up with two other young all-stars, which Houston does not have
-No one really said that in 2014. It was generally viewed as the right move and most people had the new look Cavs winning multiple rings until the Warriors emerged that season
-Phoenix already had another all-star and top 5 player at his position in Booker, and the #1 pick in the draft, Ayton, something Houston does not have. That PHX team also started showing signs of their emergence prior to CP3s arrival in the bubble when they were undefeated

I get what you're saying but those situations are way different than old Harden going back to the worst team in the league

You mean the guy currently leading the league in assists?
Joining a team that may include the most widely regarded generational talent in years?

I get that the Rockets been hilariously horrible record-wise the last few seasons, but I don't think it's a coincidence that lines up directly with the plan their GM laid out after the Harden trade.
Especially in light of the fact this was their short window of draft control before the OKC bill comes due.

Doubt is fair, but there is a strong established history of great playmakers, even aging ones, having an immediate impact.