Fred VanVleet: FA suitors / Predict the contract?

[Thaddy]

The Raptors season has been disappointing but the Fred VanVleet (FVV) side show has been a comedy reel to say the least.

Is a team legitimately going to offer this turd stain 30M a year? It's hilarious watching Fred against guys he views as his rivals. Take the Jalen Brunson match up as an example.

Brunson recently landed a fat, and deserved, contract from the Knicks in the range of what Fred is looking for. He seems to believe that if he wins these match ups it'll justify the contract and get him a near max deal.

If a guy who has exclaimed how he expects a max deal is putting up sub 40% from the field, below 33% from 3, and a pylon on defense. Can you imagine how bad he'll be when he's sitting at the start of a fat max deal?

Fred has Toronto by the balls too. Masai is in a position where if he lets Fred go for nothing the media is going to take a hot turd on his desk, if he re-signs him to a near max deal with a 4 year term. He's handicapped the Raptors until the end of the decade.

WWYD if you were Ujiri? I'd say low ball but paying 20M / year to a small player shooting sub 40 in a league that gets bigger/lengthier every year isn't the right choice.

The Magic are supposedly interested? Wtf. Why? Why are you planning to do this to your fanbase?

[NYKnickerbocker]

So is that why he’s always going hard and cooking Vs Knicks. Lmao

**** annoying. Feels like he always gets 30 Vs my Knicks then he goes and does his usual sub 40% shooting Vs everyone else’s

[Thaddy]

So is that why he’s always going hard and cooking Vs Knicks. Lmao

**** annoying. Feels like he always gets 30 Vs my Knicks then he goes and does his usual sub 40% shooting Vs everyone else’s

I wasn't joking when I said this comedy reel is the best part of the Raptors season.

There was another instance against Dame and the Blazers were he got slightly hot and said "That's what I do" while trying to bully a much bigger Little. Then he proceeded to brick in the fourth and ride Siakam to a win.

[JShuttlesworth]

I don't like Fred, and would love for the Magic to take him off our hands

I would have already moved him to the Magic at the deadline

[Viper1500]

I can definitely see the Magic offering 4/110 in free agency. Do I like it? No


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[Dirk]

I heard Raptos fans started a gofundme to help with FVV's relocation costs.

[Thaddy]

I don't like Fred, and would love for the Magic to take him off our hands

I would have already moved him to the Magic at the deadline

I think that was just smoke from the Klutch camp. Siakam got this guy paid before and he might do it again.
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Imagine getting a multi million dollar contract from being the franchise player's best friend.

I can definitely see the Magic offering 4/110 in free agency. Do I like it? No


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That's one way to force us into giving him a near max.

[slicedbread2]

I heard Raptos fans started a gofundme to help with FVV's relocation costs.

As a Raptors fan I'm not surprised. Sadly for fans MLSE(Miserable Leeches Sucking life out of Everybody(I made this one up in reference to Bell and Rogers owning 75% of the team who charge 1st world prices for 3rd world services)) have been hellbent on the treadmill due to having lost $250M from their lone season in Tampa and complaining of not getting enough subsidies from the NBA during this period.

I liked the trade for Poeltl(wasn't happy about giving up a lightly pro. 1st as they could've done a stealth tank this year) but honestly they should've dumped Fred for the best offer available due to him having his worse season so far and it's not gonna get better as he'll begin his next deal at 29. The lack of consistent 3pt shooting/play making/actual big prior to the deadline really harmed this team. I was in favour of moving both Fred and GTJ for draft capital/best offer available and simply retool around Barnes/Siakam.

Then again people say the Magic will dump a boatload of money for him and i could see that happening but if they get a nice bounce in the lotto balls they'll say no mas. He'll probably get 4/100M from a team that underachieved in the playoffs/rebuilding team looking to make noise.

[Karate Diop]

He's not as good as the reputation he's developed... People want to talk about the handful of games he shoots you in but never about the assortment of games he plays you out of with bad decision-making and hero ball type moves...

While not an end all metric in the era of advanced stats it's pretty concerning they VanVleet's FG% over the past 3 years is sub 40%... This guy shouldn't be looked at as a quasi-star.

[cupcakesnake]

I can definitely see the Magic offering 4/110 in free agency. Do I like it? No


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Kind of the perfect fit though no? A point guard who just shoots and passes and stays out of the paint, while being a plus defensively? Orlando is in a position where they can overpay on a bad contract on 2 as long as they time it right for when Paolo and Franz's second contracts kick in.

Fred just turned 29, but he's a small, unathletic guard who is currently suffering the worst shooting season of his career. He's a limited player who has long been overtasked in Toronto as a lead initiator or #2 scorer/playmaker. He can't score inside the arc, and while he's an excellent passer, you can see his lack of size limits the kinds of passes he can make when he gets in the paint.

I've long thought that Fred would be a perfect point guard on a team that had a major source of rim pressure. Pairing him with Giannis, Embiid, Doncic, or Jimmy Butler would be a really good synergy. This assumption is based on him being a good shooter going forward, something that's been called into doubt this season. I think Paolo will quickly become one of the biggest rim pressure guys in the league (he's already up there). Even if it's not FVV, Paolo would benefit from a guard that can shoot, space, and get him the ball. I can see Fred as the perfect connector piece in Orlando, as well as being a high character guy who will positively influence the culture there. He's also immensely helpful on defense. The guy can still blow up pick & rolls at the nail with those strong hands.

100m sounds too rich for a small guard with too many questions. But I think that Orlando should be interested in Fred to some extent.

[cupcakesnake]

but honestly they should've dumped Fred for the best offer available due to him having his worse season so far and it's not gonna get better as he'll begin his next deal at 29.

I've heard this perspective a lot about OG, GTJ, and Fred but I never understand why fans say this "best offer available" line. What if the best offer available sucked? Would you still want that?

It's one thing if you believe the asking price was set too high and that the Raps should have settled for something less than whatever that was. But without knowing the actual details, it's really difficult to make that assessment. What if the best offer out there for Fred was...Lonnie Walker and 2 second-round picks? Unless we know the specifics of offers, it makes zero sense to me for a fanbase to say a front office should have taken the best offer available. Teams try to fleece each other all the time, especially with expiring.

Masai tried to stir up the market into a potential overpay. Masai is notoriously careful with trades and generally has a great track record with these kinds of transaction. The Kawhi trade, the Bargnani trade, the Carmelo trade, Grevis Vasquez for Norm Powell and the pick that became OG, the Rudy Gay trade, getting in on the Dwight trade to snipe Andre Iguodala out of nowhere.

Masai likes to preserve assets so we'll see how the FVV thing goes. But if there wasn't a good trade offer for him, I don't think the Raps would have benefitted from switching to desperation mode. This is just like the Lowry things from a few years ago. Teams tried to lowball him and keep their best assets out of the deal so Masai closed negotiations and then created sign and trade scenarios in the offseason. He managed to get a young rotation piece in Precious. The Goran part of it was a disaster but that wasn't something easy to predict. The way it worked out was fine: you ended up with Thadd and Koloko (instead of Dragic and whoever the Raps would have selected in Malaki Branham's draft slot).

[Thaddy]

Kind of the perfect fit though no? A point guard who just shoots and passes and stays out of the paint, while being a plus defensively? Orlando is in a position where they can overpay on a bad contract on 2 as long as they time it right for when Paolo and Franz's second contracts kick in.

He's a < 6' SG in a league that is getting bigger and bigger. It's fairly obvious why his numbers have been treading down the past three years.

Fred just turned 29, but he's a small, unathletic guard who is currently suffering the worst shooting season of his career. He's a limited player who has long been overtasked in Toronto as a lead initiator or #2 scorer/playmaker. He can't score inside the arc, and while he's an excellent passer, you can see his lack of size limits the kinds of passes he can make when he gets in the paint.

The Raptors would fare a lot better having Barnes or Trent being the second option. Fred was expected to take on a different role this year which he failed to do. Then he hijacked the offense to be in his "natural" role. That hasn't worked either. It obvious he has regressed and he misses around 20 games a season. That isn't getting better in his next contract.

I've long thought that Fred would be a perfect point guard on a team that had a major source of rim pressure. Pairing him with Giannis, Embiid, Doncic, or Jimmy Butler would be a really good synergy. This assumption is based on him being a good shooter going forward, something that's been called into doubt this season. I think Paolo will quickly become one of the biggest rim pressure guys in the league (he's already up there). Even if it's not FVV, Paolo would benefit from a guard that can shoot, space, and get him the ball. I can see Fred as the perfect connector piece in Orlando, as well as being a high character guy who will positively influence the culture there. He's also immensely helpful on defense. The guy can still blow up pick & rolls at the nail with those strong hands.

100m sounds too rich for a small guard with too many questions. But I think that Orlando should be interested in Fred to some extent.

Does Siakam already do this for Fred? Siakam is one of the better passing first options in the league too, he generates a lot of open looks for Fred, that Fred just can't hit.

Fred's point of attack defense has fallen off. He has a patented back injury after all of his bad performances. Again, not looking good heading into the beyond 30 years.

[ChumboChappati]

The Raptors season has been disappointing but the Fred VanVleet (FVV) side show has been a comedy reel to say the least.

Is a team legitimately going to offer this turd stain 30M a year? It's hilarious watching Fred against guys he views as his rivals. Take the Jalen Brunson match up as an example.

Brunson recently landed a fat, and deserved, contract from the Knicks in the range of what Fred is looking for. He seems to believe that if he wins these match ups it'll justify the contract and get him a near max deal.

If a guy who has exclaimed how he expects a max deal is putting up sub 40% from the field, below 33% from 3, and a pylon on defense. Can you imagine how bad he'll be when he's sitting at the start of a fat max deal?

Fred has Toronto by the balls too. Masai is in a position where if he lets Fred go for nothing the media is going to take a hot turd on his desk, if he re-signs him to a near max deal with a 4 year term. He's handicapped the Raptors until the end of the decade.

WWYD if you were Ujiri? I'd say low ball but paying 20M / year to a small player shooting sub 40 in a league that gets bigger/lengthier every year isn't the right choice.

The Magic are supposedly interested? Wtf. Why? Why are you planning to do this to your fanbase?

Fred is a good player, he is just currently in a bad organization like Raptors which screw ups repeatedly. He should move to a better organization or if Raptors remove bad apples from its management then he can stay there.

[DelAbbot]

you outed yourself as TheBoi's burner

[Thaddy]

The Raptors season has been disappointing but the Fred VanVleet (FVV) side show has been a comedy reel to say the least.

Is a team legitimately going to offer this turd stain 30M a year? It's hilarious watching Fred against guys he views as his rivals. Take the Jalen Brunson match up as an example.

Brunson recently landed a fat, and deserved, contract from the Knicks in the range of what Fred is looking for. He seems to believe that if he wins these match ups it'll justify the contract and get him a near max deal.

If a guy who has exclaimed how he expects a max deal is putting up sub 40% from the field, below 33% from 3, and a pylon on defense. Can you imagine how bad he'll be when he's sitting at the start of a fat max deal?

Fred has Toronto by the balls too. Masai is in a position where if he lets Fred go for nothing the media is going to take a hot turd on his desk, if he re-signs him to a near max deal with a 4 year term. He's handicapped the Raptors until the end of the decade.

WWYD if you were Ujiri? I'd say low ball but paying 20M / year to a small player shooting sub 40 in a league that gets bigger/lengthier every year isn't the right choice.

The Magic are supposedly interested? Wtf. Why? Why are you planning to do this to your fanbase?

Fred is a good player, he is just currently in a bad organization like Raptors which screw ups repeatedly. He should move to a better organization or if Raptors remove bad apples from its management then he can stay there.

If it weren't for the Raptors FVV wouldn't be in the NBA

[Kobe187]

Very underrated. Does everything good, team first player.

[slicedbread2]

but honestly they should've dumped Fred for the best offer available due to him having his worse season so far and it's not gonna get better as he'll begin his next deal at 29.

I've heard this perspective a lot about OG, GTJ, and Fred but I never understand why fans say this "best offer available" line. What if the best offer available sucked? Would you still want that?

It's one thing if you believe the asking price was set too high and that the Raps should have settled for something less than whatever that was. But without knowing the actual details, it's really difficult to make that assessment. What if the best offer out there for Fred was...Lonnie Walker and 2 second-round picks? Unless we know the specifics of offers, it makes zero sense to me for a fanbase to say a front office should have taken the best offer available. Teams try to fleece each other all the time, especially with expiring.

Masai tried to stir up the market into a potential overpay. Masai is notoriously careful with trades and generally has a great track record with these kinds of transaction. The Kawhi trade, the Bargnani trade, the Carmelo trade, Grevis Vasquez for Norm Powell and the pick that became OG, the Rudy Gay trade, getting in on the Dwight trade to snipe Andre Iguodala out of nowhere.

Masai likes to preserve assets so we'll see how the FVV thing goes. But if there wasn't a good trade offer for him, I don't think the Raps would have benefitted from switching to desperation mode. This is just like the Lowry things from a few years ago. Teams tried to lowball him and keep their best assets out of the deal so Masai closed negotiations and then created sign and trade scenarios in the offseason. He managed to get a young rotation piece in Precious. The Goran part of it was a disaster but that wasn't something easy to predict. The way it worked out was fine: you ended up with Thadd and Koloko (instead of Dragic and whoever the Raps would have selected in Malaki Branham's draft slot).

I'll admit that I wouldn't be surprised if the offers were so low that Masai closed up shop. For the OG trade, there was hope that Memphis and New Orleans would engage in a bidding war but once Zion got injured it went real quiet and honestly OG's injury woes were a major issue. If Precious hadn't been hurt and was able to build off of his successful 2nd half of last year I think the image would've been clearer.

Apparently when dealing with the Clippers Masai wanted Terrance Mann, but the Clippers were steadfast in their opposition to such a deal and offered Kennard+filler. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if what happens is that the Raptors get a S&T where they receive a TPE as the best case scenario. I know very few teams have cap space and Orlando could just outright sign him and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

The main reason the Heat S&T worked out somewhat was Jimmy Butler being adamant about Lowry being paid and at least Precious shows promise even though his BB IQ needs more polish(to be fair he started late so it's to be expected). I do wish that the Raptors had just recirculated Goran's deal into a bad deal and nab draft capital in the process. When the Pacers were shedding salary I wished they could've nabbed Buddy Hield+whatever they got in the deal that sent Levert to Cleveland(the CLE lotto pro. 1st would've been ideal but oh well) though in the end it was about saving money as Goran had fallen off a cliff and wanted to play for a contender.

I think things will shape up but most likely 1 of GTJ/Fred will be gone as they have to keep Yak simply because he's too good to be let go and he's been a great contributor who'll get paid at least 4/60-80M especially if his FT shot can be at 60%.

[Sane]

Oh man, that's great news for my Rockets.

Raptors fans, I know what it's like to have a roster that's been successful and is no longer successful. You don't know the value of your players right now. Your role players look worse than they are because there's not enough star-level scoring on your team, but the truth is those role players are better than you think. VV would be a starting and very good piece on a championship contender, and he has proven that in the past even if it was an easy Finals so to speak. That alone is worth $5-10m per year.

I've heard the Rockets will spend stupid money on someone and I'm certain Harden would not come back to the Rockets, so I imagine VV would be top of their list. Can see them offering a 2-year max or a 4-year near-max. They might even get stupid and offer the full 4-year max but I hope they don't cause they will regret that decision in 2 years when the draftees extensions kick in.

The worst PG on the Magic is a better floor general than our starting and backing PG so you can imagine the Rockets will be desperate for a PG.

[wegotthabeet]

so are Toronto & Orlando the only two realistic destinations? there's probably more teams interested in Fred at the right number.

i've felt for a while that it's time for the Raptors/him to move on. he's ideally suited as a combo/third guard on a championship contender and that's just never going to happen in Toronto. personally i think he'd be great on a team like Memphis in that role.

[Jadoogar]

I can definitely see the Magic offering 4/110 in free agency. Do I like it? No


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I think the magic will be a perfect fit. They need an adult in the room, for all his faults, he's a steady point guard. Fultz, Franz and Paolo can create their own shots so less pressure on FVV (unlike toronto which has one other player who can consistently create his own shot). Yes his shooting has been bad this year but historically he's been a great 3pt shooter.