Pelicans are 10-22 since new year, is it acceptable that they've been this bad?

[UcanUwill]

I know that ZIon is out, Ingram was injured too, but this team seemed to be really deep and could carry themselves in games early in the season, but they just fallen apart. Is it all acceptable and understandable or are they really crapping their pantaloons here in 2023? What is up with them? I have seen stat that ZIon is averaging 28.5 games per season so far in his career, is this rebuild sustainable or is it fools gold?

[Ito]

Not like they was Gon win anything but yeah I guess it's not acceptable a team like jazz and okc are doing better right now in the standings.. wolves and pelicans should have been at least a lock for the play-in by now

[kingr]

Zion was dominating early in the season. They were a top 3 team in the west if I remember correctly. He was that good, they were even winning games without BI. So i'm not surprised they have dropped when Zion got hurt.

[KyRo23]

Pick swap pick swap pick swap!

[donemilio21]

Pick swap pick swap pick swap!

Pelicans have the right to swap picks with Lakers. Not the other way around. They have identical records and if both teams end up in the lottery, they'd have doubled their chance to get a top 3 pick. Still not great odds. So there is a little positive of them not being even mediocre without Zion right now. West is pretty stacked anyway.

[KyRo23]

Pick swap pick swap pick swap!

Pelicans have the right to swap picks with Lakers. Not the other way around. They have identical records and if both teams end up in the lottery, they'd have doubled their chance to get a top 3 pick. Still not great odds. So there is a little positive of them not being even mediocre without Zion right now. West is pretty stacked anyway.

Right, for sure. I was just mocking the people who thought LA would have a much worse record

[bwgood77]

Yes, it's completely acceptable.

[Lockdown504090]

Pick swap pick swap pick swap!

Pelicans have the right to swap picks with Lakers. Not the other way around. They have identical records and if both teams end up in the lottery, they'd have doubled their chance to get a top 3 pick. Still not great odds. So there is a little positive of them not being even mediocre without Zion right now. West is pretty stacked anyway.

Right, for sure. I was just mocking the people who thought LA would have a much worse record

its wild to me that we are in the timeline where the lakers could be picking 15th in the draft, take filiposki, leonard miller or dariq whitehead, while still making the playoffs after being bottomfeeders who also had to swap picks with the pelicans who used to be a 2 seed.

[ArtMorte]

They need Zion for his scoring, simple as.

Ingram's not good enough to be the number one option in a playoff team. And turns out that McCollum wasn't being held back by playing second fiddle to Lillard, he's good, but nothing amazing.

Side note: I feel like Valanciunas was jinxed by some early-season thread on here, I don't remember was it about him or a bunch of centers in general, but there was a bit of a w*nkfest over him and he's been quite mid ever since.

[UcanUwill]

They need Zion for his scoring, simple as.

Ingram's not good enough to be the number one option in a playoff team. And turns out that McCollum wasn't being held back by playing second fiddle to Lillard, he's good, but nothing amazing.

Side note: I feel like Valanciunas was jinxed by some early-season thread on here, I don't remember was it about him or a bunch of centers in general, but there was a bit of a w*nkfest over him and he's been quite mid ever since.

Yes, as a big Jonas fan\, I remember, he started very well but him and McCollum just kind of disappeared, Jonas especially.

Jonas is just one of those centers that can score points, but is just not a closign player because of exploitative defensive struggles. THat part to me makes sense but always didnt make sense to me also. If guys like Jonas isnt good for 4th. quarter, why do they play more in first 3 quarters then, as human, I understand the difference, but logically, there is no difference really, you build score over entire game. But no, Jonas will play more in first 3 quarters, will score a lot of points, will give up points, but Larry Nance will sub him in the forth. It always made sense but also didnt make sense at all to me, is it just me?

[ConSarnit]

They need Zion for his scoring, simple as.

Ingram's not good enough to be the number one option in a playoff team. And turns out that McCollum wasn't being held back by playing second fiddle to Lillard, he's good, but nothing amazing.

Side note: I feel like Valanciunas was jinxed by some early-season thread on here, I don't remember was it about him or a bunch of centers in general, but there was a bit of a w*nkfest over him and he's been quite mid ever since.

Yes, as a big Jonas fan\, I remember, he started very well but him and McCollum just kind of disappeared, Jonas especially.

Jonas is just one of those centers that can score points, but is just not a closign player because of exploitative defensive struggles. THat part to me makes sense but always didnt make sense to me also. If guys like Jonas isnt good for 4th. quarter, why do they play more in first 3 quarters then, as human, I understand the difference, but logically, there is no difference really, you build score over entire game. But no, Jonas will play more in first 3 quarters, will score a lot of points, will give up points, but Larry Nance will sub him in the forth. It always made sense but also didnt make sense at all to me, is it just me?

Nance isn't durable enough to play more than 20 min per game. The best version of this team brings JV off the bench or maybe even doesn't even have him at all. He clogs the paint for Zion and can't protect the rim. The fact that Zion can score so efficiently with JV on the floor is a testament to how good Zion is.

Zion with Nance: 14.2 netrtg (119.6 off, 105.4 def)

Zion with JV: 3.9 netrtg (112.8 off, 108.9 def)

Their scoring woes aren't the reason they're losing. Their starting lineup:

CJ/Ingram/Jones/Murphy/JV

107.3 offrtg
127.9 defrtg

-20.6 netrtg

Their starting lineup is basically the worst defensive team of all time.

[UcanUwill]

They need Zion for his scoring, simple as.

Ingram's not good enough to be the number one option in a playoff team. And turns out that McCollum wasn't being held back by playing second fiddle to Lillard, he's good, but nothing amazing.

Side note: I feel like Valanciunas was jinxed by some early-season thread on here, I don't remember was it about him or a bunch of centers in general, but there was a bit of a w*nkfest over him and he's been quite mid ever since.

Yes, as a big Jonas fan\, I remember, he started very well but him and McCollum just kind of disappeared, Jonas especially.

Jonas is just one of those centers that can score points, but is just not a closign player because of exploitative defensive struggles. THat part to me makes sense but always didnt make sense to me also. If guys like Jonas isnt good for 4th. quarter, why do they play more in first 3 quarters then, as human, I understand the difference, but logically, there is no difference really, you build score over entire game. But no, Jonas will play more in first 3 quarters, will score a lot of points, will give up points, but Larry Nance will sub him in the forth. It always made sense but also didnt make sense at all to me, is it just me?

Nance isn't durable enough to play more than 20 min per game. The best version of this team brings JV off the bench or maybe even doesn't even have him at all. He clogs the paint for Zion and can't protect the rim. The fact that Zion can score so efficiently with JV on the floor is a testament to how good Zion is.

Zion with Nance: 14.2 netrtg (119.6 off, 105.4 def)

Zion with JV: 3.9 netrtg (112.8 off, 108.9 def)

Their scoring woes aren't the reason they're losing. Their starting lineup:

CJ/Ingram/Jones/Murphy/JV

107.3 offrtg
127.9 defrtg

-20.6 netrtg

Their starting lineup is basically the worst defensive team of all time.

Jonas off the bench does make sense. It is crazy to me how good NBA got, to a point such a skillful finisher with such a good touch, size and scoring is basically seen as a scrub in todays game, wow.

[ConSarnit]

Yes, as a big Jonas fan\, I remember, he started very well but him and McCollum just kind of disappeared, Jonas especially.

Jonas is just one of those centers that can score points, but is just not a closign player because of exploitative defensive struggles. THat part to me makes sense but always didnt make sense to me also. If guys like Jonas isnt good for 4th. quarter, why do they play more in first 3 quarters then, as human, I understand the difference, but logically, there is no difference really, you build score over entire game. But no, Jonas will play more in first 3 quarters, will score a lot of points, will give up points, but Larry Nance will sub him in the forth. It always made sense but also didnt make sense at all to me, is it just me?

Nance isn't durable enough to play more than 20 min per game. The best version of this team brings JV off the bench or maybe even doesn't even have him at all. He clogs the paint for Zion and can't protect the rim. The fact that Zion can score so efficiently with JV on the floor is a testament to how good Zion is.

Zion with Nance: 14.2 netrtg (119.6 off, 105.4 def)

Zion with JV: 3.9 netrtg (112.8 off, 108.9 def)

Their scoring woes aren't the reason they're losing. Their starting lineup:

CJ/Ingram/Jones/Murphy/JV

107.3 offrtg
127.9 defrtg

-20.6 netrtg

Their starting lineup is basically the worst defensive team of all time.

Jonas off the bench does make sense. It is crazy to me how good NBA got, to a point such a skillful finisher with such a good touch, size and scoring is basically seen as a scrub in todays game, wow.

I don't think he's a scrub at all. He's just a bad fit with Zion. JV has his place as a masher but his flaws just happen to coincide with the things that teams have discovered they can exploit most easily: slow footed 7 footer who can't really protect the rim nor switch on the perimeter. I'd say these guys and non-shooting wings have been hit the hardest the past few years in terms of value around the league.

[Hoop Heavy]

Yes, it's completely acceptable.

So, a team that loses two of their top three guys ... and then struggles ... and people think that's "acceptable"

IF the Pelicans were for "real" ... then they would have had two guys on the end of the bench who were as good as the two guys they lost, right?

[nikster]

Pick swap pick swap pick swap!

Pelicans have the right to swap picks with Lakers. Not the other way around. They have identical records and if both teams end up in the lottery, they'd have doubled their chance to get a top 3 pick. Still not great odds. So there is a little positive of them not being even mediocre without Zion right now. West is pretty stacked anyway.

Right, for sure. I was just mocking the people who thought LA would have a much worse record

It wasn't that crazy of a thought until they completely revamped the roster and Zion went down. Pelicans were #1 seed at one point and was looking like Lakers had a chance of missing play in all together

[bwgood77]

Yes, it's completely acceptable.

So, a team that loses two of their top three guys ... and then struggles ... and people think that's "acceptable"

IF the Pelicans were for "real" ... then they would have had two guys on the end of the bench who were as good as the two guys they lost, right?

I think it's just a dumb question. How do you answer it? How good should they be? I remember when the Suns were missing like 6 of their 9 top players this year and struggling everyone was blaming Bridges and Ayton for not carrying 3rd stringers to wins against good teams (and they even took the Nuggets to OT and played some other teams well).

It's tough to judge, but yeah, any team missing it's top 2 players is unlikely to be good unless you have super quality backups like Memphis, who can usually hang since Tyus Jones is probably the best backup PG in the league and they have solid PFs/Guards to backup JJJ or Bane.

[UcanUwill]

Yes, it's completely acceptable.

So, a team that loses two of their top three guys ... and then struggles ... and people think that's "acceptable"

IF the Pelicans were for "real" ... then they would have had two guys on the end of the bench who were as good as the two guys they lost, right?

I think it's just a dumb question. How do you answer it? How good should they be? I remember when the Suns were missing like 6 of their 9 top players this year and struggling everyone was blaming Bridges and Ayton for not carrying 3rd stringers to wins against good teams (and they even took the Nuggets to OT and played some other teams well).

It's tough to judge, but yeah, any team missing it's top 2 players is unlikely to be good unless you have super quality backups like Memphis, who can usually hang since Tyus Jones is probably the best backup PG in the league and they have solid PFs/Guards to backup JJJ or Bane.

You guys are right, maybe I just overrated their ability to do it by committee, I thought they are one of the deepest teams around, and maybe they are but its a star league. At first even without ZIon and Ingram they were looking ok, but then just fell apart. I Mean I guess that was expected, but it was still a bit disappointing to me, I really expected this team to be very good, and yeah, if ZIon plays 25 games a year, this team is nothing, but I dont know, I was going against my character and were over optimistic with this group of players.

[C3H6N6O6]

No, it is not.
They should be 14-18 since new year. They at least shouldn't have lost so many games recently in which both Mccullum and Ingram played.

[chilluminati]

Team is built around Zion.
They lose without him.

Nothing to see here.

[cupcakesnake]

I don't think it's unreasonable to be a bit surprised by how bad they've been considering the run they went on last year without Zion. They went 13-10 to finish the season, won both their play-in games, and then took 2 games off a Phoenix team that made the finals the year before. I remember there even being speculation of Zion coming back being a negative issue.

So I did think this core was going to hold up and play close to .500 basketball when Zion went out and Ingram came back. They had so much depth and had discovered a 2-way identity that was built more around Herb, Dyson, Murphy, Alvarado, and Nance.