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If his knees didn't fail him, and was able to give it a go for 12-18 years... would we have him in the all time greats conversation based on what we saw pre-injury?

Maybe a top 3 PG?
Top 15 player?

He was great man, such a damn shame his body couldn't hold up

He was an all nba 1st team talent. He was amazing and we just saw a slice of what he would have been. You can say the same about Grant Hill. Both players could have mvp level players.

He was flashy and good. But I don’t see him as good as TMac or DWade and definitely not Kobe. He was really fun to watch.

Top ~8 player in the league today. The 97 playoff series against the Heat is a taste of what he could do today if you give him the keys to an offense.

All time if he never got injured, likely top 10 PG of all time.

Around 5 to 8, that would be my guess.

He was more of a SG after him and Shaq split ways

vastly overrated. I dunno, top 300 all-time? His peak year was 22-4-7 shooting 31% from three. I mean, why bother asking this question? There's literally been hundreds of similar players in NBA history. If not for Shaq he never would have had the commercials and nobody would know who he is.

Depends. How many titles did he win during his hypothetical run? Did he stay in Orlando in this timeline? Did he talk Shaq into staying?

BostonCouchGM wrote:vastly overrated. I dunno, top 300 all-time? His peak year was 22-4-7 shooting 31% from three. I mean, why bother asking this question? There's literally been hundreds of similar players in NBA history. If not for Shaq he never would have had the commercials and nobody would know who he is.

Yeah but what was he shooting from 2 though? Did you ever think to go that deep?

BostonCouchGM wrote:vastly overrated. I dunno, top 300 all-time? His peak year was 22-4-7 shooting 31% from three. I mean, why bother asking this question? There's literally been hundreds of similar players in NBA history. If not for Shaq he never would have had the commercials and nobody would know who he is.

I'm all for some contrarian ****, but you're wylin bro.

Probably would have kept up averaging between 31-27 points per game, 9-7.1 assists, and 6-4 rebounds a game, but also it depends on what team he'd play for. Staying with Orlando, still leaving for Phoenix or going some where else that could possible boost his chances at helping a team win a championship.

I personally would have liked to see him play for either the Knicks going into the 2000s, but only if Isiah didn't go over there and completely mess up the roster with his bad gm decisions. Either that, or seeing him pair up with Vince Carter over on the Raptors.

I think he had a potential to reach top 35 all-time, but potential means nothing in actual ranking.

OdomFan wrote:Probably would have kept up averaging between 31-27 points per game, 9-7.1 assists, and 6-4 rebounds a game, but also it depends on what team he'd play for. Staying with Orlando, still leaving for Phoenix or going some where else that could possible boost his chances at helping a team win a championship.

I personally would have liked to see him play for either the Knicks going into the 2000s, but only if Isiah didn't go over there and completely mess up the roster with his bad gm decisions. Either that, or seeing him pair up with Vince Carter over on the Raptors.

I really don't get why Shaq left Orlando. Shaq seemed to believe losing to the Rockets then Bulls meant he'd never win one in Orlando, but they just needed to add a 6th man of the year calibre player imo. He was 1-1 against the dynastic Bulls in the playoffs IIRC. Firm believer he would have won just as many titles in Orlando with a front office and coaching change. They just needed to grow up a bit and add some more pieces. People make it seem like Jerry West did some magic there or that it had to be Kobe but truth be told Carmelo Anthony or Damian Lillard or James Harden would win titles with Shaq easily. Kobe was the toughest fit, he wanted to take more shots than anyone in the world thank god he was good at it. Wade needed nothing but a near-retiring Shaq to win that first title, a very underrated title.

As for Penny, yeah I think he was pretty damn good but not a franchise player on his own. If you're trying to win a title, he should be your 2nd or 3rd best player. I do think he was a bit overhyped because his game looked great in highlights and the ads.

When I've played as Tmac and Penny in NBA2k games I've found them the same offensively, but defensively Penny is way better.
And its fun to watch videos of Orlando-Chicago 1990s games, because none of the guards today are as entertaining as Penny and MJ and their limitless range of moves.
The 3-pointer totally ruined today's guards, because now they don't bother to develop their post-up moves or slashing moves....instead just their boring step-back threes.

#12 assuming everyone who is expected back this season is taken to be healthy. Behind:

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid
Curry
Tatum
Luka
Kawhi
KD
Butler
LeBron
AD

I'd take Dame and SGA if it were offense only but there's a pretty big defensive gap particularly with Dame.

BostonCouchGM wrote:vastly overrated. I dunno, top 300 all-time? His peak year was 22-4-7 shooting 31% from three. I mean, why bother asking this question? There's literally been hundreds of similar players in NBA history. If not for Shaq he never would have had the commercials and nobody would know who he is.

Still drunk from St. Patrick's day?

Sane wrote:

OdomFan wrote:Probably would have kept up averaging between 31-27 points per game, 9-7.1 assists, and 6-4 rebounds a game, but also it depends on what team he'd play for. Staying with Orlando, still leaving for Phoenix or going some where else that could possible boost his chances at helping a team win a championship.

I personally would have liked to see him play for either the Knicks going into the 2000s, but only if Isiah didn't go over there and completely mess up the roster with his bad gm decisions. Either that, or seeing him pair up with Vince Carter over on the Raptors.

I really don't get why Shaq left Orlando. Shaq seemed to believe losing to the Rockets then Bulls meant he'd never win one in Orlando, but they just needed to add a 6th man of the year calibre player imo. He was 1-1 against the dynastic Bulls in the playoffs IIRC. Firm believer he would have won just as many titles in Orlando with a front office and coaching change. They just needed to grow up a bit and add some more pieces. People make it seem like Jerry West did some magic there or that it had to be Kobe but truth be told Carmelo Anthony or Damian Lillard or James Harden would win titles with Shaq easily. Kobe was the toughest fit, he wanted to take more shots than anyone in the world thank god he was good at it. Wade needed nothing but a near-retiring Shaq to win that first title, a very underrated title.

As for Penny, yeah I think he was pretty damn good but not a franchise player on his own. If you're trying to win a title, he should be your 2nd or 3rd best player. I do think he was a bit overhyped because his game looked great in highlights and the ads.

I don't think so. Seriously don't think Harden would have stepped up in the playoffs against the Sacramento Kings, Spurs, and they definitely would not have came back against the Blazers in 2000 if they even got that far.

Melo also no, Not the defender Kobe was. Great offensive guy though, but not enough to win it all in early 2000s Western Conference.

Damian Lillard gets a doubtful from me too. On the plus side, Having him or Melo would mean that Eddie Jones would have never had to leave the team due to wanting to starting at the shooting guard spot, but still. I just don't see them 3 peating. Maybe 1 championship, but you have to factor in how well these guys would do in those times that Shaq is dealing with foul trouble, or being hammered by hack a shaq tactics.

With that being said, from what I remember. Shaqs main reason for wanting to go to LA was because he wanted to do acting and music. Maybe he could have did that in Orlando too, but Im pretty sure that was the big pitch for it. That and because Orlando pretty much wanted him gone anyways.

Wade had more than just Shaq btw. The Shaq acquiring also came with the rest of that championship squad coming in. Antoine Walker, Jason Williams, and GP.

Their stats don't look like much, but they did a lot of little things that helped that team win 2006 while Wade did most of the heavy lifting, and Shaq used what was left of his big man power.

He was a top 15 player when he played, never top 10 I think. If he stayed healthy it still depends on the team that he played for. On his own he's not taking any team past the 2nd round.

It's not a knock on Penny Hardaway. It was a big men's league back then. Unless you're MJ you need to be paired up with a decent big to have a chance in the playoffs.

In 95-96, Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting while Shaq finished tied for 9th. He was pretty damn good.

Imagine Luka trying to defend Penny
Total mismatch, same as Luka trying to defend MJ basically.