What is Jokers ceiling?

[dhsilv2]

That doesn't work with Jokic. That's playing into him. He isn't shaq. Teams are better off fronting him with mobile guys.

That’s basically how I see it. Regardless of the flaws on the other side I do think a Embiid/Simmons tandem and a younger Lebron/AD would give Jokic problems as the mobile PF and defensive big to cover inside/out play.

But other than that I don’t think any setup works even remotely viable against him defensively .

Went all time playmaker point guard mode during the first 3 quarters then in the last went prime Dirk hitting fade-aways.

Celtics had possibly the best attempt at trying to 'neutralize' him with Horford playing tight man defense and Robert Williams camping in the paint. Too bad we won't see that this year, it would've been an interesting scenario.

Agree, I really was interested in seeing that. That was a scary scenario for Jokic, but he's just so next level. I can't imagine he couldn't figure it out.

[DCasey91]

Yeah the main issue with any sort of tandem (Williams/Horford is a good shout) your still left with the undeniable premier playmaking ala Lebron/CP3 in which Jokic can hand hold players into optimal positions at all times.

It’s eerie how similar he communicates, hand points and shakes his head mannerism wise because they see the play ahead of time.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Better than Curry Kobe Durant.

He is Already better than Durant , Jokers one championship have more meaning than Durants two

[metalinguss]

Better than Curry Kobe Durant.

He is Already better than Durant , Jokers one championship have more meaning than Durants two

Man don’t jinx it nobody has won yet. Someone might unfortunately get hurt which hopefully doesn’t happen.

[michaelm]

I'm not even going to bother answering this.

I mean, even some DPOY can be killed by switches in certain match ups, we have see it with Gobert, could happen to Wemby. outside of Bam and Draymond, who else cant be exploited by that. Jokic just knows where to be, He is Marc Gasolish, I am not sure why people think he is so sure fire negative.

Look at his opponents fg% at the rim against him. He is a negative on defense. It's okay, just take some deep breaths and you will feel better.

I agree with others that his case is similar to that of Steph Curry.

Basketball is a team game, what matters imo is his overall contribution to a team/how strong a team can be built around him. If he leads a team built around him to multiple titles then the tally of his individual attributes being theoretically less than individual players regarded as more two-way is not very relevant, again Imo. Sure if he can be targeted defensively as he was last year by GSW when he has a full healthy team around him to the detriment of his team then his defense is a significant negative. There hasn’t been much sign of that this year with the other best Nuggets players available which they weren’t last year.

Currently I see him as possibly or even probably Curry tier. I don’t know what his absolute ceiling is but in his case titles won will be relevant given advanced/impact stats pretty much have him as the MVP every year, which is likely to continue for a number of seasons Imo given how physically robust he appears to be. He gets extra credit for bringing success to a previously unfashionable and not overly successful team as well, once again imo only of course.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Better than Curry Kobe Durant.

He is Already better than Durant , Jokers one championship have more meaning than Durants two

Man don’t jinx it nobody has won yet. Someone might unfortunately get hurt which hopefully doesn’t happen.

I predicted Denver winning all before playoffs started and I’ll stick with it , the only thing left is to plan parade route

[Stribor]

Goat - not, but I can see 3 possible rings and IF there is a legitimate adversary team developed in the next year or so, so that you have kind of epic battles ... I could see him in top 10 all time.

[QPR]

Wait people are actually saying better than Kareem?

Depends on your criteria. If it's an arbitrary "X amount of rings, all star appearances, MVPs" etc then he'll never get there.

[QPR]

If Jokic can play Marc Gasol like defense, then he’s the GOAT. I already think he’s on track to being the GOAT offensive player.

You could argue he creates just as many extra points through his playmaking as a good defender saves through his D.

The two-way argument I don't think is as relevant because of his playmaking. Elite scoring + elite playmaking is probably just as valuable as elite scoring + elite defense. We've just been conditioned to think a center has to be great defensively to be all-time.

[DS17]

We need Dwight back to guard his ass again.

[Gusto1903]

He's never going to be the GOAT being a negative on defense.

Is he a negative on defense?

aNy GoOd TeAm WoUlD sPaM 75 p&R a GaMe AnD eXpOsE hIS D

Pause that

[RSP83]

If he keeps this up and able to maintain it for a long period of time, I think he will at least end up in the best big man of all time conversation with Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem. And the only thing that's keeping him from winning those arguments is championship rings.

He's already knocking on Dirk's door on the best European NBA player of all time.

The GOAT debate is the same, it'll come down to rings, MVPs, All-NBA accolades, record books, etc. Jokic definitely has top 5 NBA player of all-time potential if he keeps it up.

[RSP83]

IMO Jokic and Giannis, both are tied as so far the best player of current generation (I don't count KD, Kawhi, Steph, Lebron because I consider them to be from the previous gen). Both have the same ceiling as per now.

[Edrees]

These poll options are essentially either a top 5 player or outside top 25 player all time. Nothing in between

[Edrees]

Wait people are actually saying better than Kareem?

This is just realgm during the nba finals. They said it about giannis two years ago, steph last year, and about AD a few years ago. You got all the superfans hyped up posting.

[Gusto1903]

Skillwise Jokic has everything. He just needs the accolades and chips to challenge Russell and Kareem. Thats his ceiling.

[Celtic Koala]

He's not getting any better than he is right now, and right now he's top 15 all time.

Currently he is already the best player in history by any advanced metric. The only thing he is missing are rings (stupid metric as this narrative favors ring chasing like LeBron or Durant but it is what basketball players are judged on)

[Celtic Koala]

i think in that Steph Curry range tbh

i've always comp'd him to a Steph Curry of bigs, just an unbelievable offensive engine with some question marks defensively/athletically but all-world level impact on his teams because of how they warp defenses.

already has two MVPs like Steph, and this year seems like his 2014-2015 Steph year.

i see him as a top 20 all time guy tbh.

Steph is a top 3 player of all time based on net impact alone. He is very underrated and an absolute beast of a player

[Celtic Koala]

It is also worth noting that 1 ring in Denver which is a small market that doesn't attract free agents is worth a lot more than one ring in Chicago, Boston, Miami or specially LA. 3 rings in a team like the Nuggets to me would have a lot more value than some rings like Lebron's rings at LA and the Heat.

[monopoman]

It is also worth noting that 1 ring in Denver which is a small market that doesn't attract free agents is worth a lot more than one ring in Chicago, Boston, Miami or specially LA. 3 rings in a team like the Nuggets to me would have a lot more value than some rings like Lebron's rings at LA and the Heat.

Well you also have to factor in team strength, the Nuggets are a solid team without Jokic but they are nowhere near what we would call contenders without him. Sure plenty of teams look worse without their best player but many other teams have a much better #2 than Jokic does.

To me Jokic is the embodiment of what a prime Sabonis would have looked like assuming he never had the injury woes he did, and if he would have joined the NBA at a younger age. Sure if you want to compare him to players that actually hit their peak he is likely a top 10 player all-time right now and could easily rise from that.