Why Joker dominates, No one has played with their back to the basket offensively in 20 years

[Cubbies2120]

Shaq would have that dude in foul trouble in about 5 minutes with the way he plays defense and tear him a new arsehole.. I think hes a great player and very talented but hes basically a beneficiary of circumstance.

Shaq is the perfect type of player for Jokic to guard - he's gonna post up, and won't shoot from further than 5 feet from the basket.

Jokic is strong himself, and if Shaq would have Jokic in foul trouble, imagine Shaq having to chase Jokic around. If the quicker Centers of today struggle to keep up with ihm, how would Shaq?

[DonaldSanders]

This is the same argument that keeps getting recycled anytime a new top end player shows up and is leading his team to a championship -- in the 80/90s when it was more physical, said player would crumble. This BS was used to try to discredit Curry, and now it's being used again on Jokic.

I say this as someone who watched these eras as a youngin' and I still go back and watch full length games from the era.

[Sedale Threatt]

I actually think old school true power forwards body structures like Anthony mason, Barkley (when he wanted to play defense) , Karl Malone, Charles Oakley Those types of body’s actually are better to defend Jokic’s type of play. Guys with good center of gravity. Bulky.

Even 38 year old lebron was guarding Jokic ok as well.

You need some physicality to disrupt Jokic.

Unfortunately not a lot of defenders like that in todays nba.

AD doesn’t provide that type of physicality. Do you stop Jokic? No. He’s so gifted seeing the defense. He will see
The cutter or the open shooter.

Saying that. Jokic is a bad matchup for Miami. They are too small. Bam isn’t physical enough. And Miami tries to protect bam with zones against Bigger centers. That may work well against embiid who has tunnel vision. The zone won’t work again Jokic.

I don't have encyclopedic knowledge on how Jokic does specifically against Draymond, but just glancing through the box scores for the past couple of seasons he seems to whip Golden State's ass as much as anybody else.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nikola-jokic-vs-draymond-green-last-10-games

And Draymond will go down as one of the better defensive players of all time, a prototype of the exact type of physical, undersized, aggressive post defender you're talking about.

[Bergmaniac]

This is the same argument that keeps getting recycled anytime a new top end player shows up and is leading his team to a championship -- in the 80/90s when it was more physical, said player would crumble. This BS was used to try to discredit Curry, and now it's being used again on Jokic.

I say this as someone who watched these eras as a youngin' and I still go back and watch full length games from the era.

The funniest version of this is when people claim that LeBron, at worst the third most athetic player of all time, would crumble due to the physicality of the 90s.

[DorianRo]

This is the same argument that keeps getting recycled anytime a new top end player shows up and is leading his team to a championship -- in the 80/90s when it was more physical, said player would crumble. This BS was used to try to discredit Curry, and now it's being used again on Jokic.

I say this as someone who watched these eras as a youngin' and I still go back and watch full length games from the era.

Its funniest version of this is when people claim that LeBron, at worst the third most athetic player of all time, would crumble due to the physicality of the 90s.

Don't make dude. Lebron has been flopping and playing soft for 20 years for a guy that is a built like a running back

[DonaldSanders]

This is the same argument that keeps getting recycled anytime a new top end player shows up and is leading his team to a championship -- in the 80/90s when it was more physical, said player would crumble. This BS was used to try to discredit Curry, and now it's being used again on Jokic.

I say this as someone who watched these eras as a youngin' and I still go back and watch full length games from the era.

Its funniest version of this is when people claim that LeBron, at worst the third most athetic player of all time, would crumble due to the physicality of the 90s.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean it was just those two, LeBron is in the same club at times for sure -- though doesn't get it quite as bad as these two are dealing with. It's absolutely silly for all 3.

[Ice Trae]

“Beneficiary of circumstance” get out with that garbage ass take bro

[Teen Girl Squad]

If we had a down vote function OP might set a Real GM record.

Truth hurts. But I see no difference Between Portland Sabonis and Joker now. Other than age. And Sabonis was completely Physically decimated by the physicality of the 90s and completely PUNISHED physically as Joker would be the same.

I love how the 90s get more and more physical according the mythology of the nostalgic trolls. In 2035 the talk will probably be that back in the 90s there was 2 fist fights in every game and players were getting clotheslined on every other drive to the basket.

People legit think 80s basketball was just the Rambis clothesline on loop for a decade, even though we still reference the Rambis clothesline to this day because of how uncommon it was even then.

[fanofthegreats]

Jokic would be right there with Jordan as the best player in the broke ass 90s.

[Bobbymcgee]

Kind of agree with Op to a certain extent.

Jokic is a great center and I think he would fit right in with all of the great centers of the 80's and 90's with his unique skill-set. But, in today's NBA, it is basically Jokic, then Embiid, then everyone else. The center position is just so bad in today's NBA that Jokic doesn't have much of a challenge at his position.

Would have been cool to see Jokic go up against a team like the Bad Boy Pistons in the NBA Finals for example. With Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, and even James Edwards beating up on him game after game.

But seeing him go up against Rui Hachimura was pretty weak sauce. And the Heat aren't much better.

[PhilBlackson]

Brilliant work Sherlock.

I'm sure it's JUST the low post not the brilliant overall understanding/ability to play the game and GOAT level passing to combine with that...and ironically 3 LEVEL scoring. That when you actually list out all the things he can do on a basketball court that it makes much more sense as a total package why he's dominant.

While yes most people can acknowledge that a lot of big men aren't great at post play anymore, Joker clearly does SO MUCH MORE than that, that as an overall package allows him to dominate the game.

[garrick]

You must be a new basketball fan.

Tim Duncan has been a back to the back player his whole career and was last in the league in 2016 I think?

[JDR720]

If anything, Joker would be more dominate in the 90's.

Nobody could guard him (not that they can now) and the style of play back then means he wouldn't need to guard in space as much.

[michaelm]

Kind of agree with Op to a certain extent.

Jokic is a great center and I think he would fit right in with all of the great centers of the 80's and 90's with his unique skill-set. But, in today's NBA, it is basically Jokic, then Embiid, then everyone else. The center position is just so bad in today's NBA that Jokic doesn't have much of a challenge at his position.

Would have been cool to see Jokic go up against a team like the Bad Boy Pistons in the NBA Finals for example. With Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, and even James Edwards beating up on him game after game.

But seeing him go up against Rui Hachimura was pretty weak sauce. And the Heat aren't much better.

None of the players you mention could do what he does offensively and the player from the past with whom the closest comparison can be made is probably Magic as has been said, except Jokic is taller, stronger and perhaps a more versatile scorer.

Sure great centers of past eras could very likely have defended him better in the post than the current batch of centers, but what about the rest of his offensive game as has also been said ?.

Perhaps he should be assessed as an all round player rather than purely as a center, like Lebron who is officially a SF he is his team's main PG.

[Buckets22]

It is true that Jokic is helped by the fact that many many teams are small as F.
Wouldn't be surprised if GMs start signing Jokic-stoppers similar to Shaqs presence in the league. Big, mobile legit 7 footers that at least match Jokic physically if not with BBall IQ to negate part of his game.

[Exp0sed]

It is true that Jokic is helped by the fact that many many teams are small as F.
Wouldn't be surprised if GMs start signing Jokic-stoppers similar to Shaqs presence in the league. Big, mobile legit 7 footers that at least match Jokic physically if not with BBall IQ to negate part of his game.

it's not a viable option in today's NBA
unless those big can consistenly spread the floor or have other substantial offensive skills
you can't play 4 on 5 on offense and expect to win in 2023, that's just not happening

and the supply of such talented big men is obviously pretty scarce, teams aren't going to be filling their roster with these anytime soon as there aren't enough to go around.
I mean guys with the size who also have some offensive talent.

you said "legit 7 ft. mobile bigs". a guy like Mitch Rob, RW or Gobert u mean? all these guys pose the same offensive issues btw, and i'm not even talking about guys like Nerlens Noel or Gren Monroe etc, guys the game has passed by

there are very few guys who are truly "big" and mobile and won't bury you offensively and against those that do hurt u offensively but do fit the bill that you described - Jokic is doing just fine, thank u very much

just for reference, Miami has a couple of guys "perfect" for the role you're describing. Dedmon has the size and weight and he is an experienced NBA Center. Yurtseven has the size and strength as well.

you think Spo is dumb? you think he hasn't considered that? but he knows even if it'll slow down the Joker (somewhat) - it will kill Miami's offense, the net effect would be negative and it's obvious, he doesn't need to try it to know it's never gonna work.

besides, those type of guys that ur describing (akin to the big bodies that were recruited to deal with Shaq) are usually completely useless when not under the basket. Jokic will cook them on the perimeter, with his shooting, passing and driving and they will be forced to stop out as he's consistenly hit 50% of open 3's at the top of the key if you'll allow him constant space there

that strategy was utilized in that era's NBA vs Shaq because he was so dominant inside (and only inside!) coupled with him being an exeptionally weak FT shooter. so u need guys to put a beating on him and use up all the fouls because you can't stop him one on one when he's deep anyway and it's much better to send him to the line where is poor and not concede a dunk (old school analytics ). since he can do that on almost every possession, u want to have 2-3 guys that can be used to employ this strategy for large chunks of the game
obviously, that's not a viable strategy vs the joker whose an 80% or so Ft shooter

if Shaq was an 80% FT shooter, you wouldn't have seen every team stack up big bodies on their roster

(he would also be unstoppable and win ring after ring )


fwiw the very premise of this thread is laughable
hard to compare between eras but Jokic will dominate in any era, he's a basketball genius with so many elite basketball skills that would translate to any type of era \ rules and really just an incredible ATG I.Q, touch and nose for the basketball

lol @ thinking lumbering Centers who couldn't do anything with the ball would be any kind of an issue for Jokic, just because they have trained more and have alot more reps at defending in the post

that's a laughable take

[Blue_and_Whte]

Joker getting the “if this were the 90’s he’d be trash” treatment. Must be doing something right. Dude dominated Miami with just his passing in the 1Q. Worse he was Robbed of the MVP because some fat, garbage ass NBA player who’s an even worse analyst was offended by white people winning MVP trophies. Philly would swap Embiid for him and be better for it.

[SlovenianDragon]

Jokic dominates because he is the best player in the world.

When ur the best its easy to dominate.

[CLosP]

Does Jokic dominate an Orlando Shaq, David Robinson, or Hakeem? I’m not so sure with their quickness and strength as well as their offensive game. Does he dominate damn near everyone else? Yeah, probably. The only issue would be is Jokic going to have the same freedom to play point center back in the day as he does now?

[imDatknicksTape]

Lebron Melo Kobe all did it during their prime

all u nugz fans are being very fanboish

i can see a physical pattern with u all 2... hmm. Its very apparrent too..