Why Joker dominates, No one has played with their back to the basket offensively in 20 years

[DorianRo]

The premise of his dumb argument is, that Sabonis was on the same level as the player as Jokic, which he never was in his career. Jokic is dominating the league in which he competes against the best athletes in the world. Sabonis have never done that in his life time. Today players are even more athletic than those in Sabonis's time.

Actually he was when he was younger. He was as talented as Joker is now and if he was in the NBA would being the same thing joker is now under these non-physical rules. The question is will Joker be as good as Sabonis at that age

[Bergmaniac]

Sabonis was decimated physically before the 1990s even started and it had nothing to do with the mythical physicality of the NBA in this era.He didn't even come to the NBA until he was 31 and could barely run at this point. But you probably know this so why don't you at least put a bit more effort in your trolling?

[Chanel Bomber]

Ok

[Sedale Threatt]

If we had a down vote function OP might set a Real GM record.

Truth hurts. But I see no difference Between Portland Sabonis and Joker now. Other than age. And Sabonis was completely Physically decimated by the physicality of the 90s and completely PUNISHED physically as Joker would be the same.

I kove how the 90s get more and more physical according the mythology of the nostalgic trolls. In 2035 the talk will probably be that back in the 90s there was 2 fist fights in every game and players were getting clotheslined on every other drive to the basket.

It really is ridiculous how it gets blown out of proportion. I've done this before, but I invite people to pick a random year in the 90s and actually go back and look at look at some of the starting bigs back then. But what about Adam Keefe and Luc Longley, who started for the championship finalists in 1998? Or Vlade Divac and Rik Smits, who obviously weren't in the same galaxy as Jokic but were high-level starters during that span. Jim McIlvaine (lol) started for Sonics teams that won 57 and 61 games in back-to-back seasons. And on and on. It's easy to get hung up on the Shaqs and the Olajuwons. But there were a whooole lot of jobbers too.

[DorianRo]

Truth hurts. But I see no difference Between Portland Sabonis and Joker now. Other than age. And Sabonis was completely Physically decimated by the physicality of the 90s and completely PUNISHED physically as Joker would be the same.

I kove how the 90s get more and more physical according the mythology of the nostalgic trolls. In 2035 the talk will probably be that back in the 90s there was 2 fist fights in every game and players were getting clotheslined on every other drive to the basket.

It really is ridiculous how it gets blown out of proportion. I've done this before, but I invite people to pick a random year in the 90s and actually go back and look at look at some of the starting bigs back then. But what about Adam Keefe and Luc Longley, who started for the championship finalists in 1998? Or Vlade Divac and Rik Smits, who obviously weren't in the same galaxy as Jokic but carved out very respectable careers during that span. Jim McIlvaine (lol) started for Sonics teams that won 57 and 61 games in back-to-back seasons. And on and on. It's easy to get hung up on the Shaqs and the Olajuwons. But there were a whooooooole lot of jobbers too.

You want to use Longley as an example who played with MJ and Pippen?.. MJ didn't need BIG's. HE was that good. Thats why hes GOAT.

If MJ had legit BIGs he would have way more than 6 crowns

[Sedale Threatt]

I kove how the 90s get more and more physical according the mythology of the nostalgic trolls. In 2035 the talk will probably be that back in the 90s there was 2 fist fights in every game and players were getting clotheslined on every other drive to the basket.

It really is ridiculous how it gets blown out of proportion. I've done this before, but I invite people to pick a random year in the 90s and actually go back and look at look at some of the starting bigs back then. But what about Adam Keefe and Luc Longley, who started for the championship finalists in 1998? Or Vlade Divac and Rik Smits, who obviously weren't in the same galaxy as Jokic but carved out very respectable careers during that span. Jim McIlvaine (lol) started for Sonics teams that won 57 and 61 games in back-to-back seasons. And on and on. It's easy to get hung up on the Shaqs and the Olajuwons. But there were a whooooooole lot of jobbers too.

You want to use Longley as an example who played with MJ and Pippen?

Like I said, take your pick. There were an enormous amount of stiffs earning jobs back then, not to mention a handful of really good second-tier centers like Smits and Divac -- the epitome of "euroball non-physical bigs" -- who clearly didn't have Jokic's talent/skill who managed to do just fine.

Even as somebody who watched all that stuff live, the level of mythology that some ascribe to the 90s continually blows my mind.

[Sgt Major]

Can't believe we're on the 2nd page of this thread and Phreak50 still hasn't yelled at cloud like a proper old man.

[NCHeels2008]

I think its a bit harsh to call Longley a stiff, he was brought in to Chicago to play a specific role. I don't think he was some AS but he could've been 17/10 on a garbage team IMO.

[Pokuokic]

In the same hypothesis, Shaq would be dragged to the 3pt line defending P&Rs or left on an island watching Steph dancing around him. Same concept, same " beneficiary of circumstance".

Maybe the only big who can survive is Wemby? Idk.

A rookie Nenad Krstic in 04 put up 18 and 7.5rpg on 56% from the floor against Shaq in the playoffs....but yeah Jokic would sure be in trouble.....

Watch on YouTube

[DorianRo]

In the same hypothesis, Shaq would be dragged to the 3pt line defending P&Rs or left on an island watching Steph dancing around him. Same concept, same " beneficiary of circumstance".

Maybe the only big who can survive is Wemby? Idk.

A rookie Nenad Krstic in 04 put up 18 and 7.5rpg on 56% from the floor against Shaq.....but yeah Jokic would sure be in trouble.....

Yea he would because Basketball is played on 2 ends of the court.. Is Joker gonna play on offense the entire time?

[Pokuokic]

In the same hypothesis, Shaq would be dragged to the 3pt line defending P&Rs or left on an island watching Steph dancing around him. Same concept, same " beneficiary of circumstance".

Maybe the only big who can survive is Wemby? Idk.

A rookie Nenad Krstic in 04 put up 18 and 7.5rpg on 56% from the floor against Shaq.....but yeah Jokic would sure be in trouble.....

Yea he would because Basketball is played on 2 ends of the court.. Is Joker gonna play on offense the entire time?

Krstic averaged 38mins in that series (4 games)......also Joker does not have to guard him they can put someone else on him....(like the Nets did with Cliff Robinson).

[Mickey8]

I think its a bit harsh to call Longley a stiff, he was brought in to Chicago to play a specific role. I don't think he was some AS but he could've been 17/10 on a garbage team IMO.

Longley was the solid center , he had skills.

[Mickey8]

In the same hypothesis, Shaq would be dragged to the 3pt line defending P&Rs or left on an island watching Steph dancing around him. Same concept, same " beneficiary of circumstance".

Maybe the only big who can survive is Wemby? Idk.

A rookie Nenad Krstic in 04 put up 18 and 7.5rpg on 56% from the floor against Shaq.....but yeah Jokic would sure be in trouble.....

Yea he would because Basketball is played on 2 ends of the court.. Is Joker gonna play on offense the entire time?

Jokic could draw fouls on Shaq too Jokic has complete offensive game, post up, face up, driving the basketball, three point shooting, everything is in his bag.

[Sedale Threatt]

I think its a bit harsh to call Longley a stiff, he was brought in to Chicago to play a specific role. I don't think he was some AS but he could've been 17/10 on a garbage team IMO.

Longley was the solid center , he had skills.

He was a career 7/5 player with mediocre to bad advanced stats. If he hadn't played for the Bulls almost nobody would remember who he was. But that wasn't the point. Rather, that there were a whole lot more Lucs than there were Shaqs back then. Jokic would have been fine. As I just noted, I didn't even put any effort into it and I came up with a couple of "soft Euro bigs" who were in an entirely lesser class from Jokic that managed to carve out really long, quality careers as second-tier centers in the NBA. If those guys are making All-Star Games -- again, very, very nice players -- Jokic would have done just fine.

[boomershadow]

First. Jokic is basketball genius, why would he be in foul trouble, not like eveyr big was fouling out back in the 90s and 80s.

Second. Jokic benefits from circumstance? Well, so, just like every other sports great who ever existed?

That's not true. MJ would have won the same amount of titles and MVP's in any era.

Yeah, like the 80s.

[Asianiac_24]

Dirk and Rasheed were the first of its kind, big men who can space the floor and also post up. Rasheed was a perennial all star and Dirk is a HOF.

Now imagine you make them 300 pounds, longer arms, and give them Steve Nash’s passing and vision. That’s Jokic.

[kuclas]

I actually think old school true power forwards body structures like Anthony mason, Barkley (when he wanted to play defense) , Karl Malone, Charles Oakley Those types of body’s actually are better to defend Jokic’s type of play. Guys with good center of gravity. Bulky.

Even 38 year old lebron was guarding Jokic ok as well.

You need some physicality to disrupt Jokic.

Unfortunately not a lot of defenders like that in todays nba.

AD doesn’t provide that type of physicality. Do you stop Jokic? No. He’s so gifted seeing the defense. He will see
The cutter or the open shooter.

Saying that. Jokic is a bad matchup for Miami. They are too small. Bam isn’t physical enough. And Miami tries to protect bam with zones against Bigger centers. That may work well against embiid who has tunnel vision. The zone won’t work again Jokic.

[KyRo23]

It's hard watching your team lose, bro. I get it

[Mickey8]

I actually think old school true power forwards body structures like Anthony mason, Barkley (when he wanted to play defense) , Karl Malone, Charles Oakley Those types of body’s actually are better to defend Jokic’s type of play. Guys with good center of gravity. Bulky.

Even 38 year old lebron was guarding Jokic ok as well.

You need some physicality to disrupt Jokic.

Unfortunately not a lot of defenders like that in todays nba.

AD doesn’t provide that type of physicality. Do you stop Jokic? No. He’s so gifted seeing the defense. He will see
The cutter or the open shooter.

Saying that. Jokic is a bad matchup for Miami. They are too small. Bam isn’t physical enough. And Miami tries to protect bam with zones against Bigger centers. That may work well against embiid who has tunnel vision. The zone won’t work again Jokic.

Lakers were desperate to throw anything they have on Jokic, so they were switching a lot, trying to confuse him . There were few times when Jokic didn't score on Lebron. If Lebron was Jokic sole defender in the series , Jokic would have eaten him alive.

[Pattycakes]

And the on the low block punishing the defender. If you had legit BIGs , that played like BIGs physically. , Joker is basically an old Portland Sabonis past his prime. Sad but true. He would be in foul trouble every game if he played in the 90s-early 2000s.

Shaq would have that dude in foul trouble in about 5 minutes with the way he plays defense and tear him a new arsehole.. I think hes a great player and very talented but hes basically a beneficiary of circumstance.

Well you’re right and wrong at the same time. If centers played “traditionally” these days, you’re absolutely right that the physical competition would immediately increase for him on a daily night, but Sabonis past his prime… you lost me the entire remaining post. I get the point though, I think… I don’t agree with the Jokic stan responses, however I do consider him in the top 8-10 centers of all time, and getting this chip immediately 4-5. And I would never consider him an automatic lock to reach that outcome in any era. There are a LOT of centers that would have physically dominated him historically, none of which play currently.