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Which MVP was the most erroneously awarded? I'm talking about a year someone else should have won, but didn't.

Don’t we know the answer?

SNPA wrote:Don’t we know the answer?

It's obviously Steve Nash's 2nd MVP in 2006. Shaq should've won that.

Of course the most recent MVP that went to the wrong guy is going to win this vote.

But in terms of the vote that got it wrong by the greatest amount I’d have to say 1999 Karl Malone. It’s kind of hilarious that he won it that year because that was Malone’s individual worst season out of his prime years. His efficiency and impact numbers were all way down compared to what he averaged over his entire prime.

But these were the days of box score watching. Even though it was clear that Shaq and Duncan and a few other players were just better at basketball than Karl Malone was, he had a big number next to the PPG section on the stat sheet and that’s what voters cared about back them.

I mean people today criticize the Westbrook MVP or James Harden in general because of the empty stats that don’t translate to playoff impact, but Malone was the king of that back in his day. Fake stats propped up by an unsustainable free throw rate and it’s very unfortunate that voters decided to reward that over other, better players.

Why is Nash's 04-05 MVP so controversial compared to Rose's? They both had the same case pretty much - best player on the best team.

And giving it to Shaq when that was clearly Wade's team would've been like giving an MVP to Durant when he was on the Warriors.

A thread more of recency bias plus some personal dislikes than reasonable basketball discussions.

People will just come in looking for Embiid's name and vote.

I swear for the life of me I've never seen this topic before.

Probably Westbrook. Much as it was incredibly impressive; that he kept OKC competitive and in the playoffs, and averaging a 31 point triple double — after losing KD/Ibaka — the needle was still moved more than it had been in years past, in terms of awarding the MVP to a lower seed with an underwhelming RS record (45 win, sixth seed).

Harden averaged 29/8/11 on 61%TS for 55 win, 3rd seed
Kawhi averaged 26/6/3.5 on 61%TS for a 61 win, 2nd seed
Lebron averaged 26/9/9 on 62%TS for a 51 win, 2nd seed Cavs team

Since Nash isn’t an option, I’m going to go with Embiid. What a total hoax. Won’t give it to the real MVP because they don’t want to 3 times in a row for whatever bizarre reason.

ken6199 wrote:A thread more of recency bias plus some personal dislikes than reasonable basketball discussions.

People will just come in looking for Embiid's name and vote.

I understand the sentiment, but regardless of recency bias it was clearly not the correct MVP choice by any real measure of the regular season performances, and as we know was a combination of voter fatigue and was subject to intense lobbying by Embiid's camp publicly and behind the scenes in the final weeks of the season.

This clear uncomfortable feeling from many was reaffirmed in the playoffs in an all time manner, and sheepish voter remorse clearly seeped through in the subsequent media member coverage (well as good as it got beyond admitting their mistake).

Other years for me had 'weaker' MVPs, but moreso due to the calibre of those seasons, Embiid could have won in those years sure - weaker to me does not mean 'worst decision'. I think that's an important distinction.

The Embiid decision definitely sits within the top 3 for me.

I voted Embiid.

I just don't feel Rose was so controversial at the time. Bulls had a great season led by Rose who rose to stardom, and the Heat had a slow start. So stats favored Lebron, but team success was on Rose's side. Voter fatigue wasn't doing Lebron any favors, but I dont think people were really rioting about this decision.

Embiid was clearly a combination of voter fatigue, people feeling sorry for Embiid being runner up year aftee year, Perkins stupid racist ranr, etc. Jokic was head and shoulders above everyone.

Rose averaged 25.0 points per game in his MVP year, and 7.7 assists, and 4.1 rebounds in 81 games!
How on earth is that controversial?
Plus he was the most athletic Point Guard of All-Time.
One of the most deserving MVPs we've ever seen.

ken6199 wrote:A thread more of recency bias plus some personal dislikes than reasonable basketball discussions.

People will just come in looking for Embiid's name and vote.

Yeah, its fine if 2023 Embiid is one of the options but there's no way it should be leading the poll by this margin.

The Nash MVP's or Embiid...clearly better players those years where as I think other years there are arguments for better players but no clear choice

dautjazz wrote:I voted Embiid.

I just don't feel Rose was so controversial at the time. Bulls had a great season led by Rose who rose to stardom, and the Heat had a slow start. So stats favored Lebron, but team success was on Rose's side. Voter fatigue wasn't doing Lebron any favors, but I dont think people were really rioting about this decision.

Embiid was clearly a combination of voter fatigue, people feeling sorry for Embiid being runner up year aftee year, Perkins stupid racist ranr, etc. Jokic was head and shoulders above everyone.

Wouldn't this logic apply to Jokic? His team only won 53 games, whereas other candidates were on better teams.

Embiid was a heck of alot better than Rose, and more central to the teams success. The Bulls were primarily a defensive team, and Rose wasn't driving their defensive success.

I'm Jokic and Nuggets big fan obviously, but I must say people are too cruel to Embiid here.

Embiid 2022-23 numbers 33-10-4 ts%66% are historic by any means so Jokic outperformed Joel slightly in the regular season, while many here overreact like playoff counts too for the MVP award, which is not true. So it is a robbery but for sure not the biggest robbery in NBA/MVP history.

One_and_Done wrote:

dautjazz wrote:I voted Embiid.

I just don't feel Rose was so controversial at the time. Bulls had a great season led by Rose who rose to stardom, and the Heat had a slow start. So stats favored Lebron, but team success was on Rose's side. Voter fatigue wasn't doing Lebron any favors, but I dont think people were really rioting about this decision.

Embiid was clearly a combination of voter fatigue, people feeling sorry for Embiid being runner up year aftee year, Perkins stupid racist ranr, etc. Jokic was head and shoulders above everyone.

Wouldn't this logic apply to Jokic? His team only won 53 games, whereas other candidates were on better teams.

Embiid was a heck of alot better than Rose, and more central to the teams success. The Bulls were primarily a defensive team, and Rose wasn't driving their defensive success.

Sixers only won one more game than the Nuggets, despite playing alongside a future HOF in Harden, while Denver was doing it with Murray still bouncing back from a major injury. Jokic had a historically great statistical season, definitely better than Embiid's. I think most people had Milwaukee and Boston over Denver before the season started, so them winning a title is probably surpassing expectations for most.

THE J0KER wrote:I'm Jokic and Nuggets big fan obviously, but I must say people are too cruel to Embiid here.

Embiid 2022-23 numbers 33-10-4 ts%66% are historic by any means so Jokic outperformed Joel slightly in the regular season, while many here overreact like playoff counts too for the MVP award, which is not true. So it is a robbery but for sure not the biggest robbery in NBA/MVP history.

Embiid was not the favourite until the tail end of the season after everyone and their mother knew he ducked a game against Jokic to enhance his MVP credentials, the issue is that everyone knows the stats + games played + regular season standings, the usual factors had nothing to do with it after a few people brought up supposed biases towards Jokic, especially when the media/fans even brought up playoff success as a negative for Jokic. Whether Embiid deserved it or not felt completely irrelevant in the end, he was annointed.

Harry Garris wrote:Of course the most recent MVP that went to the wrong guy is going to win this vote.

But in terms of the vote that got it wrong by the greatest amount I’d have to say 1999 Karl Malone. It’s kind of hilarious that he won it that year because that was Malone’s individual worst season out of his prime years. His efficiency and impact numbers were all way down compared to what he averaged over his entire prime.

But these were the days of box score watching. Even though it was clear that Shaq and Duncan and a few other players were just better at basketball than Karl Malone was, he had a big number next to the PPG section on the stat sheet and that’s what voters cared about back them.

I mean people today criticize the Westbrook MVP or James Harden in general because of the empty stats that don’t translate to playoff impact, but Malone was the king of that back in his day. Fake stats propped up by an unsustainable free throw rate and it’s very unfortunate that voters decided to reward that over other, better players.

Isn't that pretty much the same exact thing that happened with Embiid? A big number next to the PPG?.. which disregarded assists, efficiency and just overall effectiveness.

Jables wrote:

THE J0KER wrote:I'm Jokic and Nuggets big fan obviously, but I must say people are too cruel to Embiid here.

Embiid 2022-23 numbers 33-10-4 ts%66% are historic by any means so Jokic outperformed Joel slightly in the regular season, while many here overreact like playoff counts too for the MVP award, which is not true. So it is a robbery but for sure not the biggest robbery in NBA/MVP history.

Embiid was not the favourite until the tail end of the season after everyone and their mother knew he ducked a game against Jokic to enhance his MVP credentials, the issue is that everyone knows the stats + games played + regular season standings, the usual factors had nothing to do with it after a few people brought up supposed biases towards Jokic, especially when the media/fans even brought up playoff success as a negative for Jokic. Whether Embiid deserved it or not felt completely irrelevant in the end, he was annointed.

He was trailing Jokic until Perkins mentioned race... then everyone kind of jumped on-board. It really was a ridiculous decision.