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CBS listed their top 15 best shooters and they included players like Bird, KD, Dirk, Mullin etc shot around 38% from 3.
Ellis actually shot better than Ray Allen and Reggie Miller % wise from 3. Some experts would argue that he didn't shoot enough 3's and yet CBS included Bird, Steve Kerr who took like less than 3 attempts.
Reggie just had 1.2 attempts/game more

Even if you were an excellent 3-point shooter like Larry Bird or Chris Mullin, if you missed a couple of 3s, you'd stop attempting them.

The logic was, why keep attempting 3-pointers when you can attempt a mid-range shot?

A mid-range shot is closer to the basket and therefore more likely to go in, right?

There was no justification for attempting more 3s when you were missing them.

So legendary shooters like Bird and Mullin didn't get the benefit of shooting themselves into a rhythm.
They'd have much higher 3pt% if they kept shooting after missing one or two.

Michael Jordan's 3-point% and 3s attempted per game:
1988-89 = .276 and 1.2
1989-90 = .376 and 3.0
1990-91 = .312 and 1.1
1991-92 = .270 and 1.3
1992-93 = .352 and 2.9
The more Jordan attempted, the higher% he made.

Ja Morant

Ritzo wrote:Ja Morant

I'll raise you Javaris Crittenton

Wasn't he pretty much both the top volume 3pt shooter of the 1980s AND one of the top 3pt% guys?

Danny Ainge was 2nd in career 3pters for a while. I think Ellis is the guy who was ahead of him.

Ellis is 28th in career 3pt makes (regular season), and I didn't notice anybody else who entered the league as early as he did who's in the top 100.

MrGoat wrote:

Ritzo wrote:Ja Morant

I'll raise you Javaris Crittenton

Not Gilbert Arenas' calibre.

Dale Ellis was a great shooter. The percentages speak for themselves and he won the three point contest in 1989. He was 6'7" with and he had good lift and a quick high release, kind of similar to Michael Porter Jr today.

He was also part of one of the most lopsided straight up player-for-player trades in NBA history.

On the Mavs, it seemed he barely saw the court unless the Mavs were down big late in a game, in which case Dick Motta would send him out there, watch him rain 3s, and then put him back in "break glass in case of emergency" prison. (I did not live in Dallas so this recollection is based on a limited number of nationally televised games).

After averaging 8.2, 9.3, and 7.1 ppg the first three years of his career in Dallas, the Mavs traded him to the Sonics for Al Wood, who was out of the league a year later. The next four years in Seattle (under Bernie Bickerstaff), Ellis averaged between 23.5 and 27.5 ppg.

my favorite dale ellis thing is how his 3pt% went up 10% from 1996-97 to 1997-98 after the nba pushed the 3pt line *back out*.

ellobo wrote:Dale Ellis was a great shooter. The percentages speak for themselves and he won the three point contest in 1989. He was 6'7" with and he had good lift and a quick high release, kind of similar to Michael Porter Jr today.

He was also part of one of the most lopsided straight up player-for-player trades in NBA history.

On the Mavs, it seemed he barely saw the court unless the Mavs were down big late in a game, in which case Dick Motta would send him out there, watch him rain 3s, and then put him back in "break glass in case of emergency" prison. (I did not live in Dallas so this recollection is based on a limited number of nationally televised games).

After averaging 8.2, 9.3, and 7.1 ppg the first three years of his career in Dallas, the Mavs traded him to the Sonics for Al Wood, who was out of the league a year later. The next four years in Seattle (under Bernie Bickerstaff), Ellis averaged between 23.5 and 27.5 ppg.

Had to look this up because my memory of Ellis in the 90s and as a player was just being a solid player but I had no idea he had a stretch like this. Kind of reminds me of the run Michael Redd had when he became a full time starter and then got hurt. What's even crazier looking at Ellis's bbref is he only got one all-star nod during that run

One_and_Done wrote:

MrGoat wrote:

Ritzo wrote:Ja Morant

I'll raise you Javaris Crittenton

Not Gilbert Arenas' calibre.

Too soon to mention Jayson Williams?

Yes, Dale Ellis is one of, if not the most underrated shooters in NBA history. This guy had the quickest release ever and coming off screens was absolutely deadly. Keep in mind his 88-89 season may be one of the greatest long distance shooting seasons ever for a volume (relative to the time) shooter. He shot 51% from the field and 48%!!! from 3. That’s crazy efficiency for someone that really didn’t have the greatest all around game. He also represents one of the most unique transitioned players ever - in college he was a forward/center All American who could barely dribble and did most of his damage inside. All of a sudden he goes to pros, joins Sonics, and becomes deadliest shooter at guard position of the 80s. First to 1000 3s too. Better % than Ray Allen, Reggie Miller. He absolutely deserves to be in the same breathe as any of the greatest shooters always mentioned.

Probably.

Ellis had issues though, which is why he is largely forgotten. He wrecked his own career with his poor judgment (DWIs) and there were off-court issues with teammates, which is why Seattle dumped him.

I remember a story about the year Dick Motta coached the Nuggets where their practices were basically shooting contests for money and Ellis cleaned up.

Some experts would argue that he didn't shoot enough 3's

Best to compare a player to the time he played, making an apples to apples comparison.

Ellis played from 1983-84 to 1999-00. During that time the league average 3pt FG% was 34.1%. He shot 40.3% (1719/4266), was just 1 of 2 players who during that time attempted 4000+ 3s (the other was Reggie Miller who also shot 40.3% on 3s during that time).

During those 17 seasons 34 players attempted 2000+ 3pters, and among those 34 players Ellis shot the 5th highest 3pt FG% (that 40.3%).

And among the 14 players that attempted 3000+ 3pters, he shot the 3rd highest 3pt FG%, the 2nd highest 2pt FG% (50.9%) and the 2nd highest eFG% (53.6%).

So without a doubt during the time he played he was absolutely one of the best shooters in the league, literally on par with Reggie Miller.

He should be in every top ten shooting list. Absolute assassin.

kcktiny wrote:

Some experts would argue that he didn't shoot enough 3's

Best to compare a player to the time he played, making an apples to apples comparison.

Ellis played from 1983-84 to 1999-00. During that time the league average 3pt FG% was 34.1%. He shot 40.3% (1719/4266), was just 1 of 2 players who during that time attempted 4000+ 3s (the other was Reggie Miller who also shot 40.3% on 3s during that time).

During those 17 seasons 34 players attempted 2000+ 3pters, and among those 34 players Ellis shot the 5th highest 3pt FG% (that 40.3%).

And among the 14 players that attempted 3000+ 3pters, he shot the 3rd highest 3pt FG%, the 2nd highest 2pt FG% (50.9%) and the 2nd highest eFG% (53.6%).

So without a doubt during the time he played he was absolutely one of the best shooters in the league, literally on par with Reggie Miller.

Miller only shot 1.2 3’s per game over Dale and Ellis had a higher %
Steve Kerr, Bird, KD and Dirk shot significantly less

Deathray wrote:I remember a story about the year Dick Motta coached the Nuggets where their practices were basically shooting contests for money and Ellis cleaned up.

It's kind of funny that Motta ended up coaching Ellis again considering he's pretty much the guy who got Motta fired from Dallas. He was buried on the Mavs bench when Motta was head coach, the Mavs traded him to Seattle where Ellis immediately became the #1 option and the Sonics ended up being the team to knock Dallas out in the first round in his first season there. Motta was no longer the Mavs head coach after that

Of all the bad trades the Mavs have made over the years Ellis for Al Wood is still the brown standard

Dale Ellis was such a great shooter.

Even past his prime on the Spurs he was lethal from 3.

Love his shooting form as well.

Kids coming into the league these days with unko shots when guys like Ellis and Mark Price existed…

Phreak50 wrote:Dale Ellis was such a great shooter.

Even past his prime on the Spurs he was lethal from 3.

Love his shooting form as well.

Kids coming into the league these days with unko shots when guys like Ellis and Mark Price existed…

What does this mean though? There have always been and will always be people with funky shots, great shooters existing before you doesn't make you able to then shoot like them. If people could just watch someone else shoot and exactly imitate the form and consistency, no one would be a poor shooter, but obviously it doesn't work lot that.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, you'll need to clarify this.

Ellis was a real problem, on and off the court. He should absolutely be recognized as one of the most lethal shooters ever. However, I think he is lost in the sands of time because he never received much recognition during his playing days, largely due to his own actions. Constant drunk driving arrests, a domestic violence conviction, and a deep-seated anger, perhaps due to the fact that his father was shot and killed when Dale was just 9 years old. Ellis was notoriously private. Didn't give a **** about the media. He often no-showed appearances, including during all-star weekend the day after he won the 3 point competition. The announcer gave Ellis a huge intro and it was then they discovered he wasn't there.

Another fun story: The Supersonics dismantled their team during the 1990-1991 season after Xavier McDaniel kicked the crap out of Dale Ellis early in the season. X-Man was dealt two weeks after the altercation. Ellis was gone three months after the fight.