Why do some American NBA players do so badly in FIBA?

[Wagonband]

Not trying to bash anyone, just a genuine question, now that the dust has settled so to speak.

The most glaring recent example is Haliburton. He looks like prime Steve Nash now in the NBA, yet in the World cup he looked an average player vs clearly weaker competition. Watching him playing in the Worlds i would never have said this is the same player that we see just a couple of months later.

Other "Stars" also didn't do too well. JJJ looked completely lost out there at times. He couldn't get a rebound to save his life. Ingram was basically unplayable. In the NBA he was averaging 25 ppg on almost 50/40/90 efficiency on a team that didn't have a good point guard setting him up, but actually had to work for his shots, which makes this even more of a feat. In the WC he was relegated to bench warmer.

At the same time, the guys that were there as supporting players like Reaves and Heart did really well. And i feel this has always happened in the past as well, when the USA didn't field the best team possible. The players that i consider B tier stars in the NBA usually severely underperformed.

So what is the reason for this? And does them playing bad actually make them even better NBA players in the future? With the example of Haliburton, i can't help but think that him being a cerebral player seeing different schemes and playstyles helped him reach another level, despite not being able to adapt well enough to it in the actual games.

But still the points remain. When guys like Hali, Brunson, Ingram or JJJ have monster games in the NBA nobody really talks about it too long, because it's expected of them. In the World cup, against clearly weaker competition, they sometimes felt like below average rotational players.

Are the rules really that different? Or is there something inherently different in the NBA style of basketball that some close to elite players can't adapt to? I'd like to hear your thoughts

[Chuck Everett]

Are the rules really that different?

NBA is a different game.

The center can't just camp in the lane = illegal defense. Screens are allowed to be moving. Traveling is rarely called. Freedom of movement slants everything to the offense, so teams have to lean into building teams with length to mitigate. High possession games, with shorter shot clocks on offensive rebounds. 8 seconds to get the ball up the court to increase pace.

[Gusto1903]

Theres no set play in the NBA because its basically all run and gun, cross cross tween behind KOBE! style of game.

[durden_tyler]

Scrubs from non-US teams tend to play much better under the international setting-- they should, it's their only way of getting noticed by the basketball world.

[NO-KG-AI]

Small sample, new teams, coaches, environments, mindset. You’re also not playing for 100’s of millions of dollars.

[Pachinko_]

American players like Lorenzo Brown or Mike James who took their time to adjust their game to FIBA style, they had no problems taking over. But it is a process that usually takes about a year. Very few Americans are able to translate their game immediately, in fact European teams that are contenders tend to avoid players straight out of the NBA, or keep them in secondary roles to start, because they know it takes time.

[JayMKE]

Do you preform and work as hard on a job you’re not getting paid for?

[og15]

Well, some guy are playing a different role with unfamiliar teammates, game is different, and then the sample size is quite small.

For example, look at all the players who had a bad start the season, many times on new teams in new situations, then look at them are the half way point or the end of the season.

[JujitsuFlip]

It was a 10 game sample size, playing with a bunch of guys he's never played with, a coach he's never played for, in a country half way around the world, with a different set of rules, and he played for free.

It's not some mind boggling thing that the 23 year old struggled.

[Calvin Klein]

NBA is designed to showcase players and inflate their numbers. FIBA is not. It's very different.

I'm sure Haliburton would be pretty great in FIBA if you give him time to adjust and learn the game. He just wouldn't have such high numbers because nobody does.

[lambchop]

Rules and style of play are just different. But it's usually Americans with this profile that don't have much problem adjusting: fundamentally sound, good shooting, physical strength/ ability to play through contact, ability to work with limited space and limited possessions.

Those are guys like Carmelo, Kobe, Kyrie, KD, Deron Williams. They had no issues adjusting to the FIBA game.

Haliburton needs a lot of space to thrive, Ingram needs a bunch of shots just to get going and feel comfortable. They're both awesome at what they do, but those are very NBA specific requirements that don't work as well in the FIBA game. That said, with enough video analysis and game reps Haliburton would absolutely crush FIBA basketball.

[_jin]

Do you preform and work as hard on a job you’re not getting paid for?

Yes. I volunteer with 2 local charities and I enjoy doing it, I certainly work harder than I do in my regular job and I'm not getting paid because I chose to do it. Just like players choose to play for their country, nobody is forcing them, those who want to stay at home are allowed to.

[DCasey91]

Don’t know why posters here saying it’s a small sample size. US has had it creeping up on them for awhile.

A whole bunch of different reasons imo. Smaller court, rules, more time for one play, less time overall, experience matters.

Less propensity for loaded star power on ball dominance (only need two max). Defined sets whereas in the NBA they can rush multiple sets because of shot clock/8 sec rule so executing it on a smaller court is different with less time overall but more time for set plays.

Defense is a lot more equipped. Because of the size and rules.

To me Fiba stuff is a lot closer to how basketball should be played whereas NBA is a business first and foremost. Not that Fiba isn’t there’s just a better balance on both sides of the ball.

Luka has a good insight on this. NBA way better players, Fiba stuff is harder to get loaded/inflated stats/scores.

I think the biggest thing is the illegal defense. Imagine a goalie/free safety at all times whereas in the NBA the goalie/free safety can only be in the box for a small period of time. That alone I reckon would make all teams 2-3 points better on defense without even getting into improved defensive structures/ideas.

No secret as to why the lane is free real estate now.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Do you preform and work as hard on a job you’re not getting paid for?

Yes. I volunteer with 2 local charities and I enjoy doing it, I certainly work harder than I do in my regular job and I'm not getting paid because I chose to do it. Just like players choose to play for their country, nobody is forcing them, those who want to stay at home are allowed to.

I like the analogy of FIBA being akin to volunteering to help the underprivileged.

[UcanUwill]

Sample size most likely. At the end of the day, It is harder to be good in the NBA, so if you good in the NBA, you should and will be good in FIBA, just sometimes these players dont have enough time to adjust their game.

Most non US NBA players do very well and are leaders of their teams, USA team just does some head scratching decisions Like, this year they tried to justify themselves that they had no sifting camp process. But like, whose problem is that, they just locked on 12 guys who will play without even looking how they mesh and how they perform...

[shrink]

I imagine that Daniel Theis gets more excited about playing American stars there than American stars get about playing Daniel Theis. Look at the number of NBA superstars that don’t even bother with FIBA.

[DrPampiloni]

Do you preform and work as hard on a job you’re not getting paid for?

This take is ridiculous.


@ OP:

I like this video analysis the YT algorithm brought to me some days ago a lot as insight on why Team USA generally underperformed:

Watch on YouTube

Specifically regarding the question of why some role players overperform instead, my two cents are: the happens exactly because, being less talented than the stars, they are very focused on the gameplan and on the hustle plays, this is what keeps them on the court in the NBA too.

[og15]

NBA is designed to showcase players and inflate their numbers. FIBA is not. It's very different.

I'm sure Haliburton would be pretty great in FIBA if you give him time to adjust and learn the game. He just wouldn't have such high numbers because nobody does.

Some guys had some pretty nice numbers actually, but you're playing 8 fewer minutes each game also, so basically any NBA stats have to be cut by 20% to compare.

Edwards on team USA for example averaged 18.9 ppg in 26 mpg, that's 26 pts/36. He averaged 23.5 ppg in 35.5 mpg in the Semi-Finals and Third place game. So basically the same production rate as he was doing in the NBA.

Then numbers would depend on role. If one is playing with team USA and not the main scoring option, then you're limited in how much you can score.

Haliburton on Indiana where he gets 16 FGA in 32 mpg and is the primary playmaker with no competition as primary ball handler and playmaker is going to have a higher ability to put up stats.

[Jamaaliver]

For the same reason so many top international players have struggled in the NBA.

It's a different style of play with coaching/personnel/tactics most players are less comfortable with.

[UcanUwill]

Do you preform and work as hard on a job you’re not getting paid for?

Yes. I volunteer with 2 local charities and I enjoy doing it, I certainly work harder than I do in my regular job and I'm not getting paid because I chose to do it. Just like players choose to play for their country, nobody is forcing them, those who want to stay at home are allowed to.

Good to know American players' hearts are in the right place though - cash money. Maybe with that attitude they will win MVP again.