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NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

Moderators: cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid

Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
50
17%
Luka Doncic
45
15%
Kevin Durant
1
0%
Anthony Edwards
3
1%
Joel Embiid
61
21%
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
41
14%
Tyrese Haliburton
8
3%
Nikola Jokic
64
22%
Jayson Tatum
7
2%
Other (Kawhi, Curry, Booker, Fox, Gobert, LeBron, AD, Etc.)
11
4%
 
Total votes: 291

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NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#1 » by bisme37 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:24 pm

The NBA MVP race is heating up!

The poll is set up so you can change your vote as the players jockey for position throughout the season.

Pretty please follow RGM posting guidelines and do your part to avoid this thread becoming a toxic mess. Keep it friendly and don't troll or insult each other. And please resist bashing one player in order to prop up another, it just baits other posters and makes for a hostile environment.

Thanks and enjoy!

(You can view results of the previous poll here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2323585 )
Gonna miss KP but he's no Georges Niang.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#2 » by Dirk » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:31 pm

You can close the topic. We have a unanimous vote.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#3 » by Cubbies2120 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:36 pm

bisme37 wrote:The NBA MVP race is heating up!

The poll is set up so you can change your vote as the players jockey for position throughout the season.

Pretty please follow RGM posting guidelines and do your part to avoid this thread becoming a toxic mess. Keep it friendly and don't troll or insult each other. And please resist bashing one player in order to prop up another, it just baits other posters and makes for a hostile environment.

Thanks and enjoy!

(You can view results of the previous poll here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2323585 )



Bisme, right after I finally posted some well thought out responses, and tried to foster logical debate, you close the thread so the quote-ees can't respond?!

I feel this one's personal! :)

Can I re-quote people here? The posts in question are the last 3 of the old thread.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#4 » by Big J » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:37 pm

Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#5 » by bisme37 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:47 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
bisme37 wrote:
Spoiler:
The NBA MVP race is heating up!

The poll is set up so you can change your vote as the players jockey for position throughout the season.

Pretty please follow RGM posting guidelines and do your part to avoid this thread becoming a toxic mess. Keep it friendly and don't troll or insult each other. And please resist bashing one player in order to prop up another, it just baits other posters and makes for a hostile environment.

Thanks and enjoy!

(You can view results of the previous poll here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2323585 )



Bisme, right after I finally posted some well thought out responses, and tried to foster logical debate, you close the thread so the quote-ees can't respond?!

I feel this one's personal! :)

Can I re-quote people here? The posts in question are the last 3 of the old thread.


Here are the posts at the end of the last thread so you can continue the discussion. There was another one too but I'd prefer the new thread not be derailed with Serbian politics lol.

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Doranku wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:
What am I looking for? Nothing else here comes close to 58 shots over a two-game sample.


He went 14-57 in the two games on December 3 & 5th.


The goalpost will move - he said "close", which could mean "exactly 58 shots, and exactly Jokic's shooting %" - That's the problem with letting people argue vague concepts...it makes it a goose chase to find counterarguments...

Even when you find one (as you saw here), the next point will be "Ahh but well, that was 3 years ago, not this season!" or some other form of that.

All I ask is that when people make arguments, they specify their arguments to give me something to search for a counterpoint. Leaving it vague is like saying "Go find me a yellow car in Chicago", vs. being a little more specific "Go find me a yellow car in Chicago, in 'The Loop', in a parking garage". You're helping me understand your argument, so I can debate it.

But that takes accountability! Who wants that?!


Cubbies2120 wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:
Doranku wrote:
He went 14-57 in the two games on December 3 & 5th.

Okay. Fair enough. I didn’t see that top one. On a shaky bus at the time.


I gotta give you praise here - didn't see you took accountability. Well done - more people (myself included) should be open to that.

Now we can debate freely :D
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#6 » by LordCovington33 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:48 pm

Big J wrote:Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.


I once did that too when my mum told me to go to bed early. Definitely not a Serbian thing. I was still a wee boy, mind you. ;)

The newer poll should be less Jokic-favored, though these polls are rather fluid and influenced by recent games. It’s so early in the season to go one way or another. It’s just great seeing to future HOF centers battling it out once again.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#7 » by Cubbies2120 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:49 pm

bisme37 wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
bisme37 wrote:
Spoiler:
The NBA MVP race is heating up!

The poll is set up so you can change your vote as the players jockey for position throughout the season.

Pretty please follow RGM posting guidelines and do your part to avoid this thread becoming a toxic mess. Keep it friendly and don't troll or insult each other. And please resist bashing one player in order to prop up another, it just baits other posters and makes for a hostile environment.

Thanks and enjoy!

(You can view results of the previous poll here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2323585 )



Bisme, right after I finally posted some well thought out responses, and tried to foster logical debate, you close the thread so the quote-ees can't respond?!

I feel this one's personal! :)

Can I re-quote people here? The posts in question are the last 3 of the old thread.


Here are the posts at the end of the last thread so you can continue the discussion. There was another one too but I'd prefer the new thread not be derailed with Serbian politics lol.

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Doranku wrote:
He went 14-57 in the two games on December 3 & 5th.


The goalpost will move - he said "close", which could mean "exactly 58 shots, and exactly Jokic's shooting %" - That's the problem with letting people argue vague concepts...it makes it a goose chase to find counterarguments...

Even when you find one (as you saw here), the next point will be "Ahh but well, that was 3 years ago, not this season!" or some other form of that.

All I ask is that when people make arguments, they specify their arguments to give me something to search for a counterpoint. Leaving it vague is like saying "Go find me a yellow car in Chicago", vs. being a little more specific "Go find me a yellow car in Chicago, in 'The Loop', in a parking garage". You're helping me understand your argument, so I can debate it.

But that takes accountability! Who wants that?!


Cubbies2120 wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:Okay. Fair enough. I didn’t see that top one. On a shaky bus at the time.


I gotta give you praise here - didn't see you took accountability. Well done - more people (myself included) should be open to that.

Now we can debate freely :D


Thank you - I'll keep it away from emotionally charged topics like politics - just wanted to provide a perspective. Thanks for adding the posts!
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#8 » by Cubbies2120 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:50 pm

Big J wrote:Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.



Not sure if you saw my post, I'll quote it here - or maybe you did and that's why you're reframing (which is a good thing):

'But I'd challenge you to look at it from a different lens. I want to ask you: Are you by chance a minority? Or close to a minority (can be race, gender, orientation, etc.)? You don't need to answer, but you've got an answer in mind.

Now, frame it this way...you've got that minority group (yours or otherwise) in mind.

Someone does something 'crazy' (ripping their jersey, supporting a political leader...or jumping into the crowd to fight fans...or pick another 'crazy' behavior) that belongs to your minority group.

Do you say "Let's understand the possible reasons WHY someone did this thing?"

Or

"Must be a [minority] thing..."?

Just asking the question, I won't answer for you.'

We've argued a lot in the past, I'm trying to understand other peoples perspectives more now and encourage others to do the same :D
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#9 » by Cubbies2120 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:53 pm

LordCovington33 wrote:
Big J wrote:Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.


I once did that too when my mum told me to go to bed early. Definitely not a Serbian thing. I was still a wee boy, mind you. ;)

The newer poll should be less Jokic-favored, though these polls are rather fluid and influenced by recent games. It’s so early in the season to go one way or another. It’s just great seeing to future HOF centers battling it out once again.


I would almost argue that a new thread needs to be started not by "Post count", but by % of season done.

Ex. When we reach the halfway point (~20 games), when we reach the halfway point, 3/4 point and completed season. Post count can vary, but this provides some standardization.

"Through the first 20 games, realgm mostly thinks Jokic was MVP"
--- Restart thread
"When voting in this thread, it's for performances games 21-41"

Whatcha think? Because otherwise, a hot start can taint it for a hot finish (wow, that sounds dirty but you get my point :lol:)
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#10 » by LordCovington33 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:00 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:
Big J wrote:Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.


I once did that too when my mum told me to go to bed early. Definitely not a Serbian thing. I was still a wee boy, mind you. ;)

The newer poll should be less Jokic-favored, though these polls are rather fluid and influenced by recent games. It’s so early in the season to go one way or another. It’s just great seeing to future HOF centers battling it out once again.


I would almost argue that a new thread needs to be started not by "Post count", but by % of season done.

Ex. When we reach the halfway point (~20 games), when we reach the halfway point, 3/4 point and completed season. Post count can vary, but this provides some standardization.

"Through the first 20 games, realgm mostly thinks Jokic was MVP"
--- Restart thread
"When voting in this thread, it's for performances games 21-41"

Whatcha think? Because otherwise, a hot start can taint it for a hot finish (wow, that sounds dirty but you get my point :lol:)


A good point, but the poll kinda reflects the mindset of some voters though. Voters can be affected by recent games, as what probably happened last year. Embiid finished the season strong and had that massive nationally televised game against Denver where he scored 47 points. It’s unfair yes, but voting can be emotionally charged and recency bias can play a part.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#11 » by PierceFan4ever » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:02 pm

Right now it’s gotta be Embiid
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#12 » by ty 4191 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:03 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:I would almost argue that a new thread needs to be started not by "Post count", but by % of season done.

Ex. When we reach the halfway point (~20 games), when we reach the halfway point, 3/4 point and completed season. Post count can vary, but this provides some standardization.

"Through the first 20 games, realgm mostly thinks Jokic was MVP"
--- Restart thread
"When voting in this thread, it's for performances games 21-41"

Whatcha think? Because otherwise, a hot start can taint it for a hot finish (wow, that sounds dirty but you get my point :lol:)


Jokic has two of the worst games of his career, and you people all take him (basically) out of the MVP race. Hilarious!!!

Calm the **** down, everyone!!! Get some perspective!!!! :D

Image

Jokic still leads the NBA in On/Off: +21.9 (ATG figure). He leads on BPM by a huge margin.

28.4 ppg (8th), 13.0 rbs/g (leads NBA), 9.6 ast/g (3rd).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#13 » by Big J » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:24 pm

I feel like people hate Embiid too much to choose him, and they take it personally that he won last year, even though he's been the best player this season. This poll would be a landslide for him if he was as well liked as Jokic around here.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#14 » by Big J » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:27 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Big J wrote:Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.



Not sure if you saw my post, I'll quote it here - or maybe you did and that's why you're reframing (which is a good thing):

'But I'd challenge you to look at it from a different lens. I want to ask you: Are you by chance a minority? Or close to a minority (can be race, gender, orientation, etc.)? You don't need to answer, but you've got an answer in mind.

Now, frame it this way...you've got that minority group (yours or otherwise) in mind.

Someone does something 'crazy' (ripping their jersey, supporting a political leader...or jumping into the crowd to fight fans...or pick another 'crazy' behavior) that belongs to your minority group.

Do you say "Let's understand the possible reasons WHY someone did this thing?"

Or

"Must be a [minority] thing..."?

Just asking the question, I won't answer for you.'

We've argued a lot in the past, I'm trying to understand other peoples perspectives more now and encourage others to do the same :D



Luka's not Serbian though.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#15 » by Cubbies2120 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:35 pm

Big J wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
Big J wrote:Cubbies2120 Luka did it too, so must not be strictly a Serbian thing.



Not sure if you saw my post, I'll quote it here - or maybe you did and that's why you're reframing (which is a good thing):

'But I'd challenge you to look at it from a different lens. I want to ask you: Are you by chance a minority? Or close to a minority (can be race, gender, orientation, etc.)? You don't need to answer, but you've got an answer in mind.

Now, frame it this way...you've got that minority group (yours or otherwise) in mind.

Someone does something 'crazy' (ripping their jersey, supporting a political leader...or jumping into the crowd to fight fans...or pick another 'crazy' behavior) that belongs to your minority group.

Do you say "Let's understand the possible reasons WHY someone did this thing?"

Or

"Must be a [minority] thing..."?

Just asking the question, I won't answer for you.'

We've argued a lot in the past, I'm trying to understand other peoples perspectives more now and encourage others to do the same :D



Luka's not Serbian though.


But Luka is a minority in his environment, or would you argue that European players are the majority? My point stands :D If you don't want the thought exercise there, or you did it and kept it private, I get it.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#16 » by Cubbies2120 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:38 pm

Big J wrote:I feel like people hate Embiid too much to choose him, and they take it personally that he won last year, even though he's been the best player this season. This poll would be a landslide for him if he was as well liked as Jokic around here.


When most people can agree that one player is the MVP for a few years straight, but you have the loud few who like to play devil's advocate, it tends to skew people's attitude towards the devil.

This woulda been Embiid's one year of "Hmm, he really deserves it maybe?" if we rewarded the right guy (that the overwhelming majority considered the right guy, in our environment of realgm).

I'm sure you can see this in other aspects of society as well, when you see a 'wrong'...if Jokic won the 3rd straight, which many people think he deserved, then 28/13/10 on 54% shooting wouldn't be enough in peoples minds.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#17 » by RB34 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:07 pm

PierceFan4ever wrote:Right now it’s gotta be Embiid


Why? Philly is 4th in the East and they’ve had a full team the whole season.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#18 » by Big J » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:36 pm

RB34 wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:Right now it’s gotta be Embiid


Why? Philly is 4th in the East and they’ve had a full team the whole season.


Because he's got the best stats.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#19 » by eyeatoma » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:38 pm

Big J wrote:I feel like people hate Embiid too much to choose him, and they take it personally that he won last year, even though he's been the best player this season. This poll would be a landslide for him if he was as well liked as Jokic around here.
Yup

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#20 » by ty 4191 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:51 pm

Spoiler:
eyeatoma wrote:Yup

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Because Embiid is a selfish ass****, and, Jokic is the most unselfish and non self absorbed/winning (not stats) player and person of this Millennium.

That's what you don't understand, from your perspective, as a self-appointed "Indian from Indonesia". You have no hand on the pulse of the NBA in America. Never have, never will. You just look at the stats you (choose to) value, don't watch anything other than Embiid/76ers, and make you statements based on an incredibly myopic perspective.

eyeatoma wrote:Yeah it's over. Until Embiid proves it in the playoffs. He can **** right on off. Happy he got an MVP but that had to be the smallest I've ever seen an "MVP" perform. Indefensible. Jokic the best in the world.


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