Main reason Jordan is the GOAT

[ChipotleWest]

Daddy Dwayne had to teach Lebron how to win, but couldn't get him there in time for 2011 when the Heat were heavily favored.

One 2010s ring is worth 2 90s rings LMAO

Oh so now that's how Lebron homers are going to give him more rings? LMAO. Why not make it 5x more since you're making stuff up? Heck 10x more, Lebron has 40 rings everybody.

[tmorgan]

There’s one thing about Jordan and the Bulls championship run that nobody ever talks about or even remembers; they won every game they HAD to win. Every MUST WIN game was won.

1991: Bulls lose game 1 of the Finals at home. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next three games in LA. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win in order to get HCA back. They won game 3.

1992: Bulls lose game 1 of the ECSF at home to the Knicks. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next two games in NY. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. Game 7 was obviously a must win game or the season is over. They won game 7.

Bulls lose game 2 of the ECF to the Cavs. They need to win game 3 to get HCA back. They won game 3.

Bulls lose game 2 of the Finals at home to the Blazers. Game 3 is a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. With the series tied 2-2, game 5 in Portland was a must win to avoid going down 2-3. They won game 5.

1993: Bulls lose games 1 and 2 in NY. Games 3 and 4 are must win games to avoid going down 3-1. They won both games. Game 5 in NY is a must win to avoid giving back HCA to NY. They won game 5.

1997: With the Finals tied 2-2, the Bulls need to win game 5 to maintain HCA and avoid falling into a 3-2 deficit. They won game 5 (Jordan’s “Flu Game”).

1998: With the series tied 3-3 against Indiana in the ECF, the Bulls must win game 7 to avoid elimination. They won game 7.

With the Bulls down 0-1 in the Finals against Utah, they need to win game 2 to avoid an 0-2 deficit. They won game 2. Next, they need to win game 3 to maintain HCA. They won game 3.

People talk about Jordan not losing more than 2 consecutive games from Nov 1991 thru June of 1998 all the time but nobody ever talks about Jordan and his Bulls winning every game they HAD to win during their championship run. Outside of Bill Russell, who else can make this claim? That’s why he’s the GOAT in my opinion.

Not going to read this whole obnoxious Jordan GOAT thread, but explain to me how going down 0-1 creates a must win game in multiple seasons, but being down 0-1 to the Knicks wasn’t a “must win” because they lost the next game? This is incredibly stupid.

Heck, I’ll take a shot at this format. Jordan DID lose must win games to the Pistons two years in a row in order to achieve his actual goal of a five-peat and eight total titles. He failed!

Such a ridiculous thread.

[ChipotleWest]

There’s one thing about Jordan and the Bulls championship run that nobody ever talks about or even remembers; they won every game they HAD to win. Every MUST WIN game was won.

1991: Bulls lose game 1 of the Finals at home. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next three games in LA. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win in order to get HCA back. They won game 3.

1992: Bulls lose game 1 of the ECSF at home to the Knicks. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next two games in NY. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. Game 7 was obviously a must win game or the season is over. They won game 7.

Bulls lose game 2 of the ECF to the Cavs. They need to win game 3 to get HCA back. They won game 3.

Bulls lose game 2 of the Finals at home to the Blazers. Game 3 is a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. With the series tied 2-2, game 5 in Portland was a must win to avoid going down 2-3. They won game 5.

1993: Bulls lose games 1 and 2 in NY. Games 3 and 4 are must win games to avoid going down 3-1. They won both games. Game 5 in NY is a must win to avoid giving back HCA to NY. They won game 5.

1997: With the Finals tied 2-2, the Bulls need to win game 5 to maintain HCA and avoid falling into a 3-2 deficit. They won game 5 (Jordan’s “Flu Game”).

1998: With the series tied 3-3 against Indiana in the ECF, the Bulls must win game 7 to avoid elimination. They won game 7.

With the Bulls down 0-1 in the Finals against Utah, they need to win game 2 to avoid an 0-2 deficit. They won game 2. Next, they need to win game 3 to maintain HCA. They won game 3.

People talk about Jordan not losing more than 2 consecutive games from Nov 1991 thru June of 1998 all the time but nobody ever talks about Jordan and his Bulls winning every game they HAD to win during their championship run. Outside of Bill Russell, who else can make this claim? That’s why he’s the GOAT in my opinion.

Not going to read this whole obnoxious Jordan GOAT thread, but explain to me how going down 0-1 creates a must win game in multiple seasons, but being down 0-1 to the Knicks wasn’t a “must win” because they lost the next game? This is incredibly stupid.

Heck, I’ll take a shot at this format. Jordan DID lose must win games to the Pistons two years in a row in order to achieve his actual goal of a five-peat and eight total titles. He failed!

Such a ridiculous thread.

The Pistons series was Jordan vs the Pistons, this is not a title contending team by any stretch of the imagination. I had to go to 8 players to get Pippen in there because he averaged 7.9 ppg.



In the second season the Pistons beat the Bulls Scottie improved but still no 15 ppg player on the Bulls except Jordan.



If those Pistons teams had faced the 90's Bulls they would have lost. And I'm not a Bulls fan.

[DoItALL9]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Bro the 90's played defense and the defense was much more physical.

Today's NBA is literally wide open. MJ would go cray cray in today's league.

For the thousandth time, the 90s was not more physically demanding. Yes, you would catch more elbows. But on the whole today's game is far more physically taxing. Don't make me quote KGs NY times interview again.

Today guys have to race all over the court all the time. Go back and watch 90s games. For the most part nobody is moving on D. It's just 1 guy isos and everyone else stands around waiting.

Cardio vs physical abuse

[Jta444]

Here is game 2 of the 1999 finals. Much more recent than most of Jordan's titles.
https://youtu.be/mqecRUgoi5w?si=4cKm1dLvD7IREdJk

Go watch the teams on D. They are mostly standing around watching while the point guard sets up an iso. The three is barely guarded. Now watch a finals game today. Guys are sprinting all around the court trying to guard the elaborate motion and high PnR acrion on the perimeter. It's so obvious which is more exhaustng.

Which is exactly why Jordan would FEAST even more in today’s game. All that offball action and advanced offense would open up his game even more. He’d have wide open midrange jumpshots all day - and we all know he was a better jumpshooter than Lebron or even Kobe. If not more points he’d average most assists. Doubling him he would find the open man easily with all the spacing and shooting with those baseball glove mitts.

The fact that he averaged 30 in the 90’s with dinosaur age tactics is astonishing. And he wouldn’t be exhausted playing defense today. Lebron has been hiding on defense for the past 5 years at least, it would be easy for Jordan to do so as well and he was a conditioned athlete and very durable.

[One_and_Done]

Bro the 90's played defense and the defense was much more physical.

Today's NBA is literally wide open. MJ would go cray cray in today's league.

For the thousandth time, the 90s was not more physically demanding. Yes, you would catch more elbows. But on the whole today's game is far more physically taxing. Don't make me quote KGs NY times interview again.

Today guys have to race all over the court all the time. Go back and watch 90s games. For the most part nobody is moving on D. It's just 1 guy isos and everyone else stands around waiting.

Cardio vs physical abuse

Go to a gym and do some weights, with nice healthy pauses in between. Now try running sprints with little rest for 40 minutes straight. It's pretty obvious which one is going to tire you out more. Calling it weights is frankly being generous. Alot of the time you stand around doing nothing when not grinding in the post.

[Jta444]

For the thousandth time, the 90s was not more physically demanding. Yes, you would catch more elbows. But on the whole today's game is far more physically taxing. Don't make me quote KGs NY times interview again.

Today guys have to race all over the court all the time. Go back and watch 90s games. For the most part nobody is moving on D. It's just 1 guy isos and everyone else stands around waiting.

Cardio vs physical abuse

Go to a gym and do some weights, with nice healthy pauses in between. Now try running sprints with little rest for 40 minutes straight. It's pretty obvious which one is going to tire you out more. Calling it weights is frankly being generous. Alot of the time you stand around doing nothing when not grinding in the post.

The body is able to adjust more easily endurance-wise. Stamina can be built. We have humans running marathons every day without breaking a sweat. But the body won’t adjust to rough and physical play. You will always take a beating and there is a higher chance for injury. Plus many players today just stand around and hide on defense to conserve their energy eg Lebron. Today’s league is a finesse league and the rules are such so that it is high-paced high-scoring with high stats to keep the fans engaged and the players safe from injury. Stats are inflated and it’s okay because that’s what’s keeping the league alive and the money rolling

[Jta444]

For the thousandth time, the 90s was not more physically demanding. Yes, you would catch more elbows. But on the whole today's game is far more physically taxing. Don't make me quote KGs NY times interview again.

Today guys have to race all over the court all the time. Go back and watch 90s games. For the most part nobody is moving on D. It's just 1 guy isos and everyone else stands around waiting.

Cardio vs physical abuse

Go to a gym and do some weights, with nice healthy pauses in between. Now try running sprints with little rest for 40 minutes straight. It's pretty obvious which one is going to tire you out more. Calling it weights is frankly being generous. Alot of the time you stand around doing nothing when not grinding in the post.

The body is able to adjust more easily endurance-wise. Stamina can be built. We have humans running marathons every day without breaking a sweat. But the body won’t adjust to rough and physical play. You will always take a beating and there is a higher chance for injury. Plus many players today just stand around and hide on defense to conserve their energy eg Lebron. Today’s league is a finesse league and the rules are such so that it is high-paced high-scoring with high stats (also better for online betting) to keep the fans engaged and the players safe from injury. Stats are inflated and it’s okay because that’s what’s keeping the league alive and the money rolling in

[Cavsfansince84]

Game 6 in the 90 ecf and game 7 in the 91 ecf weren't must win games now? You could also add in game 6 in the 95 sf but that doesn't count. I mean you can give them full credit for taking care of business in the years they won but they didn't win every must win game as a group.

[One_and_Done]

Here is game 2 of the 1999 finals. Much more recent than most of Jordan's titles.
https://youtu.be/mqecRUgoi5w?si=4cKm1dLvD7IREdJk

Go watch the teams on D. They are mostly standing around watching while the point guard sets up an iso. The three is barely guarded. Now watch a finals game today. Guys are sprinting all around the court trying to guard the elaborate motion and high PnR acrion on the perimeter. It's so obvious which is more exhaustng.

Which is exactly why Jordan would FEAST even more in today’s game. All that offball action and advanced offense would open up his game even more. If not more points he’d average most assists. The fact that he averaged 30 in the 90’s with dinosaur age tactics is astonishing. And he wouldn’t be exhausted playing defense today. Lebron has been hiding on defense for the past 5 years at least, it would be easy for Jordan to do so and he was a conditioned athlete as well and very durable.

I feel like whatever I say, you will turn around with "and that's why Jordan would have been so good at that!" I could point out that players were electrocuted at halftime, and his fans would spin it as a positive.

Imma try again, but more slowly. When Jordan played guys didn't have to run around all the time. Now, do you think that might have had positive benefits for Jordan? Like, there's this crazy theory that guys play better when they're not exhausted. You might be shocked to hear this, but running a marathon and doing wind sprints right before a game actually makes you play worse.

Jordan would have had to move around more today, there's no 2 ways about it, and the obvious consequence is it would have resulted in him playing less well. Less well on D, becase he is more exhausted, and less well on O because he's now expending so much energy on D.

It is not a sensible response to say "Lebron can do it, so Jordan will be fine". The correct thought is "imagine how much better Lebron would be if he had extra energy from not having to run around nearly as much!" That's why Lebron's longevity is incredible btw, because even though he now slacks off on D more and has a reduced impact as a result, it's still preposterous he can play this well at his age. Trust me, Lebron wishes he could play the more iso 90s ball where he could stop running and just feel a bit more contact. Lebron is so hard to officiate for the same reason Shaq was; guys just bounce off him. He's built like a linebacker. He isn't going to care abour a little extra contact in exchange for no more windsprints.

Meanwhile Lebron would kill 90s teams from the 3, where they'll barely guard him. Jordan in contrast has a meh 3 ball. That will take away his ability to score as easily, because the D can cheat off him more.

Jordan averaged as much as he did in part because of high usage. In today's game you wouldn't want Jordan as a heliocentric player, but his meh 3ball means he's limited off ball too. He's be great today, but notably worse.

[One_and_Done]

Cardio vs physical abuse

Go to a gym and do some weights, with nice healthy pauses in between. Now try running sprints with little rest for 40 minutes straight. It's pretty obvious which one is going to tire you out more. Calling it weights is frankly being generous. Alot of the time you stand around doing nothing when not grinding in the post.

The body is able to adjust more easily endurance-wise. Stamina can be built. We have humans running marathons every day without breaking a sweat. But the body won’t adjust to rough and physical play. You will always take a beating and there is a higher chance for injury. Plus many players today just stand around and hide on defense to conserve their energy eg Lebron. Today’s league is a finesse league and the rules are such so that it is high-paced high-scoring with high stats (also better for online betting) to keep the fans engaged and the players safe from injury. Stats are inflated and it’s okay because that’s what’s keeping the league alive and the money rolling in

Dude. Mugsy Bogues and Shawn Bradley played in the 90s. Somehow I think the human tank Lebron will survive the strain.

[ChipotleWest]

Here is game 2 of the 1999 finals. Much more recent than most of Jordan's titles.
https://youtu.be/mqecRUgoi5w?si=4cKm1dLvD7IREdJk

Go watch the teams on D. They are mostly standing around watching while the point guard sets up an iso. The three is barely guarded. Now watch a finals game today. Guys are sprinting all around the court trying to guard the elaborate motion and high PnR acrion on the perimeter. It's so obvious which is more exhaustng.

Which is exactly why Jordan would FEAST even more in today’s game. All that offball action and advanced offense would open up his game even more. If not more points he’d average most assists. The fact that he averaged 30 in the 90’s with dinosaur age tactics is astonishing. And he wouldn’t be exhausted playing defense today. Lebron has been hiding on defense for the past 5 years at least, it would be easy for Jordan to do so and he was a conditioned athlete as well and very durable.

I feel like whatever I say, you will turn around with "and that's why Jordan would have been so good at that!" I could point out that players were electrocuted at halftime, and his fans would spin it as a positive.

Imma try again, but more slowly. When Jordan played guys didn't have to run around all the time. Now, do you think that might have had positive benefits for Jordan? Like, there's this crazy theory that guys play better when they're not exhausted. You might be shocked to hear this, but running a marathon and doing wind sprints right before a game actually makes you play worse.

Jordan would have had to move around more today, there's no 2 ways about it, and the obvious consequence is it would have resulted in him playing less well. Less well on D, becase he is more exhausted, and less well on O because he's now expending so much energy on D.

It is not a sensible response to say "Lebron can do it, so Jordan will be fine". The correct thought is "imagine how much better Lebron would be if he had extra energy from not having to run around nearly as much!" That's why Lebron's longevity is incredible btw, because even though he now slacks off on D more and has a reduced impact as a result, it's still preposterous he can play this well at his age. Trust me, Lebron wishes he could play the more iso 90s ball where he could stop running and just feel a bit more contact. Lebron is so hard to officiate for the same reason Shaq was; guys just bounce off him. He's built like a linebacker. He isn't going to care abour a little extra contact in exchange for no more windsprints.

Meanwhile Lebron would kill 90s teams from the 3, where they'll barely guard him. Jordan in contrast has a meh 3 ball. That will take away his ability to score as easily, because the D can cheat off him more.

Jordan averaged as much as he did in part because of high usage. In today's game you wouldn't want Jordan as a heliocentric player, but his meh 3ball means he's limited off ball too. He's be great today, but notably worse.

Don't half arse it and be like "he wouldn't be the goat but he'd be a top 5 player" go all the way with your true feelings, say Michael Jordan would be a JAG in today's NBA.

[Jta444]

Here is game 2 of the 1999 finals. Much more recent than most of Jordan's titles.
https://youtu.be/mqecRUgoi5w?si=4cKm1dLvD7IREdJk

Go watch the teams on D. They are mostly standing around watching while the point guard sets up an iso. The three is barely guarded. Now watch a finals game today. Guys are sprinting all around the court trying to guard the elaborate motion and high PnR acrion on the perimeter. It's so obvious which is more exhaustng.

Which is exactly why Jordan would FEAST even more in today’s game. All that offball action and advanced offense would open up his game even more. If not more points he’d average most assists. The fact that he averaged 30 in the 90’s with dinosaur age tactics is astonishing. And he wouldn’t be exhausted playing defense today. Lebron has been hiding on defense for the past 5 years at least, it would be easy for Jordan to do so and he was a conditioned athlete as well and very durable.

I feel like whatever I say, you will turn around with "and that's why Jordan would have been so good at that!" I could point out that players were electrocuted at halftime, and his fans would spin it as a positive.

Imma try again, but more slowly. When Jordan played guys didn't have to run around all the time. Now, do you think that might have had positive benefits for Jordan? Like, there's this crazy theory that guys play better when they're not exhausted. You might be shocked to hear this, but running a marathon and doing wind sprints right before a game actually makes you play worse.

Jordan would have had to move around more today, there's no 2 ways about it, and the obvious consequence is it would have resulted in him playing less well. Less well on D, becase he is more exhausted, and less well on O because he's now expending so much energy on D.

It is not a sensible response to say "Lebron can do it, so Jordan will be fine". The correct thought is "imagine how much better Lebron would be if he had extra energy from not having to run around nearly as much!" That's why Lebron's longevity is incredible btw, because even though he now slacks off on D more and has a reduced impact as a result, it's still preposterous he can play this well at his age. Trust me, Lebron wishes he could play the more iso 90s ball where he could stop running and just feel a bit more contact. Lebron is so hard to officiate for the same reason Shaq was; guys just bounce off him. He's built like a linebacker. He isn't going to care abour a little extra contact in exchange for no more windsprints.

Meanwhile Lebron would kill 90s teams from the 3, where they'll barely guard him. Jordan in contrast has a meh 3 ball. That will take away his ability to score as easily, because the D can cheat off him more.

Jordan averaged as much as he did in part because of high usage. In today's game you wouldn't want Jordan as a heliocentric player, but his meh 3ball means he's limited off ball too. He's be great today, but notably worse.

The idea that Lebron is a great shooter and a great all-time athlete at the same time is false. He only became a good shooter now thanks to the influence of Curry, Harden etc and because he couldn’t blow by defenders like he used to. So if you put the early version of Lebron who couldnt shoot 3’s in the 90’s he’d be less effective because there was Hakeem/Mutombo/Shaq/Mourning inside the lane. He couldnt beat Duncan (1-2 against him and his only win was a game 7 thanks to ray allen) what makes you think he can beat the 90s when there were even more bigs with better defense than duncan?
Meanwhile if you put the more finesse high IQ good but not great athlete 3 point shooting Lebron in the 90s he would be good but wouldnt be as good since he doesnt play defense anymore and cant attack the rim as much especially with handchecking.

The problem with Lebron fans is Lebron’s career has been so long (which is great he is the GOAT of longevity) that people tend to put great athlete Lebron and great IQ/shooter Lebron as one when he only became that player perhaps for 2-3 years. If Lebron faced the more physical defense of late 80s 90s with better interior defense and without the medical advancements then he wouldnt have a longer career he would take more beating.

As for Jordan eye test tells us that he is much more fundamentally sound than Lebron especially in shooting. That is why we can say he’d be just as good as Lebron today because if Lebron can feast with his bad shooting mechanics then how much more Jordan who is just a freak athlete as he is? Plus Jordan is much more agile and coordinated than Lebron who always travels and crosses his own foot which suits in this FINESSE league even MORE.

[One_and_Done]

Depends what version of MJ we're talking. 92 Jordan could be top 5. 98 Jordan? I doubt it.

[One_and_Done]

Which is exactly why Jordan would FEAST even more in today’s game. All that offball action and advanced offense would open up his game even more. If not more points he’d average most assists. The fact that he averaged 30 in the 90’s with dinosaur age tactics is astonishing. And he wouldn’t be exhausted playing defense today. Lebron has been hiding on defense for the past 5 years at least, it would be easy for Jordan to do so and he was a conditioned athlete as well and very durable.

I feel like whatever I say, you will turn around with "and that's why Jordan would have been so good at that!" I could point out that players were electrocuted at halftime, and his fans would spin it as a positive.

Imma try again, but more slowly. When Jordan played guys didn't have to run around all the time. Now, do you think that might have had positive benefits for Jordan? Like, there's this crazy theory that guys play better when they're not exhausted. You might be shocked to hear this, but running a marathon and doing wind sprints right before a game actually makes you play worse.

Jordan would have had to move around more today, there's no 2 ways about it, and the obvious consequence is it would have resulted in him playing less well. Less well on D, becase he is more exhausted, and less well on O because he's now expending so much energy on D.

It is not a sensible response to say "Lebron can do it, so Jordan will be fine". The correct thought is "imagine how much better Lebron would be if he had extra energy from not having to run around nearly as much!" That's why Lebron's longevity is incredible btw, because even though he now slacks off on D more and has a reduced impact as a result, it's still preposterous he can play this well at his age. Trust me, Lebron wishes he could play the more iso 90s ball where he could stop running and just feel a bit more contact. Lebron is so hard to officiate for the same reason Shaq was; guys just bounce off him. He's built like a linebacker. He isn't going to care abour a little extra contact in exchange for no more windsprints.

Meanwhile Lebron would kill 90s teams from the 3, where they'll barely guard him. Jordan in contrast has a meh 3 ball. That will take away his ability to score as easily, because the D can cheat off him more.

Jordan averaged as much as he did in part because of high usage. In today's game you wouldn't want Jordan as a heliocentric player, but his meh 3ball means he's limited off ball too. He's be great today, but notably worse.

The idea that Lebron is a great shooter and a great all-time athlete at the same time is false. He only became a good shooter now thanks to the influence of Curry, Harden etc and because he couldn’t blow by defenders like he used to. So if you put the early version of Lebron who couldnt shoot 3’s in the 90’s he’d be less effective because there was Hakeem/Mutombo/Shaq/Mourning inside the lane. He couldnt beat Duncan (1-2 against him and his only win was a game 7 thanks to ray allen) what makes you think he can beat the 90s when there were even more bigs with better defense than duncan?
Meanwhile if you put the more finesse high IQ good but not great athlete 3 point shooting Lebron in the 90s he would be good but wouldnt be as good since he doesnt play defense anymore and cant attack the rim as much especially with handchecking.

The problem with Lebron fans is Lebron’s career has been so long (which is great he is the GOAT of longevity) that people tend to put great athlete Lebron and great IQ/shooter Lebron as one when he only became that player perhaps for 2-3 years. If Lebron faced the more physical defense of late 80s 90s with better interior defense and without the medical advancements then he wouldnt have a longer career he would take more beating.

Lebron

I don't propose to ask how players would be if Hitler won WW2 and they grew up in a different time. I take the player as he is and ask how that player would play. The player that Lebron actually is shoots 3s.

[VanWest82]

Watch on YouTube

[MavsDirk41]

Here is game 2 of the 1999 finals. Much more recent than most of Jordan's titles.
https://youtu.be/mqecRUgoi5w?si=4cKm1dLvD7IREdJk

Go watch the teams on D. They are mostly standing around watching while the point guard sets up an iso. The three is barely guarded. Now watch a finals game today. Guys are sprinting all around the court trying to guard the elaborate motion and high PnR acrion on the perimeter. It's so obvious which is more exhaustng.

Which is exactly why Jordan would FEAST even more in today’s game. All that offball action and advanced offense would open up his game even more. If not more points he’d average most assists. The fact that he averaged 30 in the 90’s with dinosaur age tactics is astonishing. And he wouldn’t be exhausted playing defense today. Lebron has been hiding on defense for the past 5 years at least, it would be easy for Jordan to do so and he was a conditioned athlete as well and very durable.

I feel like whatever I say, you will turn around with "and that's why Jordan would have been so good at that!" I could point out that players were electrocuted at halftime, and his fans would spin it as a positive.

Imma try again, but more slowly. When Jordan played guys didn't have to run around all the time. Now, do you think that might have had positive benefits for Jordan? Like, there's this crazy theory that guys play better when they're not exhausted. You might be shocked to hear this, but running a marathon and doing wind sprints right before a game actually makes you play worse.

Jordan would have had to move around more today, there's no 2 ways about it, and the obvious consequence is it would have resulted in him playing less well. Less well on D, becase he is more exhausted, and less well on O because he's now expending so much energy on D.

It is not a sensible response to say "Lebron can do it, so Jordan will be fine". The correct thought is "imagine how much better Lebron would be if he had extra energy from not having to run around nearly as much!" That's why Lebron's longevity is incredible btw, because even though he now slacks off on D more and has a reduced impact as a result, it's still preposterous he can play this well at his age. Trust me, Lebron wishes he could play the more iso 90s ball where he could stop running and just feel a bit more contact. Lebron is so hard to officiate for the same reason Shaq was; guys just bounce off him. He's built like a linebacker. He isn't going to care abour a little extra contact in exchange for no more windsprints.

Meanwhile Lebron would kill 90s teams from the 3, where they'll barely guard him. Jordan in contrast has a meh 3 ball. That will take away his ability to score as easily, because the D can cheat off him more.

Jordan averaged as much as he did in part because of high usage. In today's game you wouldn't want Jordan as a heliocentric player, but his meh 3ball means he's limited off ball too. He's be great today, but notably worse.

Imma try again too….you are changing nobodys mind! You get on here everyday just to diss Jordan and say the same old stuff. Jordan, just like SGA, wouldn’t need a lethal 3 point shot to score efficiently and effectively. Nobody would stop him from scoring today. Post up, mid range, free throw line, transition….double team him and he will find the spot up shooter. Even James fans who are old enough to have watched Jordan play would agree with what i said. And no, looking at stats and watching some old Bulls games on Youtube isnt the same. You constantly criticize his 3 point shooting but do you know other top 10 players (even your hero James) has flaws —-subpar free throw shooting?

[MavsDirk41]

Depends what version of MJ we're talking. 92 Jordan could be top 5. 98 Jordan? I doubt it.

Lol you are just a troll

[VanWest82]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Shai is a lesser version of MJ and is likely going to finish top 3 in MVP voting. Shai disproves your opinion with every game he plays.

[ChipotleWest]

The only way to discredit Jordan is to discredit an entire era of basketball. Almost all of the improvements to the game made it easier to score and Jordan was scoring at will when it wasn't as easy. He would be better today than then and he would dominate like then.