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Look at what was arguably considered a “double dribble” in the late 80s. The biggest stickler when it comes to carrying or traveling wouldn’t even notice that today. When you look at old videos of players dribbling the ball and it looks kind of sloppy and their hands are only moving up and down in a vertical fashion it’s not because they couldn’t master the complex science of dribbling a basketball. It’s because what we consider “handles” today were literally against the rules back then.

Even I had some amazing And1 handles back in middle school just from practicing a few hours a day. I’m pretty sure all those past players could have had them too. Whenever someone says previous generations players couldn’t hack it in todays league I think the opposite is way more likely. Today’s players would get eaten up back then, they wouldn’t be able to dribble the ball let alone get a good shot off

No, it's both.

Prince187 wrote:[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube]

Look at what was arguably considered a “double dribble” in the late 80s. The biggest stickler when it comes to carrying or traveling wouldn’t even notice that today. When you look at old videos of players dribbling the ball and it looks kind of sloppy and their hands are only moving up and down in a vertical fashion it’s not because they couldn’t master the complex science of dribbling a basketball. It’s because what we consider “handles” today were literally against the rules back then.

Even I had some amazing And1 handles back in middle school just from practicing a few hours a day. I’m pretty sure all those past players could have had them too. Whenever someone says previous generations players couldn’t hack it in todays league I think the opposite is way more likely. Today’s players would get eaten up back then, they wouldn’t be able to dribble the ball let alone get a good shot off

I'm not sure you realize that you just essentially made an argument primarily based on the conclusion that players can adjust, then you condradicted yourself and said, well modern players can't adjust

Players on average are more skilled, more skill also comes from simply taking all the stuff the previous guys had to figure out and adding it without having to figure anything out. Take out more leniency in gather steps and cupping the ball and players now still get so much more visual data, elite training opportunities from a young age and ability to take everything past people did, and therefore would still be more skilled on average. Then you have to also add the reality of a larger field of talent to choose from.

We can see shooting forms, basically everyone is more skilled in shooting form than the average player from the 60's, but they had no previous data, and many were still breaking away from two handed shooting, not their fault.

One_and_Done wrote:No, it's both.

/thread

Players are getting better all the time, so I think today's players have better handles, but there is no question the loose rules help that. That said, the same could be said about the players in the 80s compared to players in the 50s and 60s. People make fun of 50s and 60s players for having stiff awful handles, but the rules were way tighter than they were in the 80s so the difference is magnified.

There is no way that skill development hasn’t improved in the last 50 years. Every field of work sees development and improvement over time, especially over the period of multiple decades.

Harry Garris wrote:There is no way that skill development hasn’t improved in the last 50 years. Every field of work sees development and improvement over time, especially over the period of multiple decades.

I’ve learned from the old heads that everything has gone backwards in the past few decades.

At least they are musically correct

Prince187 wrote:[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube]

Look at what was arguably considered a “double dribble” in the late 80s. The biggest stickler when it comes to carrying or traveling wouldn’t even notice that today. When you look at old videos of players dribbling the ball and it looks kind of sloppy and their hands are only moving up and down in a vertical fashion it’s not because they couldn’t master the complex science of dribbling a basketball. It’s because what we consider “handles” today were literally against the rules back then.

Even I had some amazing And1 handles back in middle school just from practicing a few hours a day. I’m pretty sure all those past players could have had them too. Whenever someone says previous generations players couldn’t hack it in todays league I think the opposite is way more likely. Today’s players would get eaten up back then, they wouldn’t be able to dribble the ball let alone get a good shot off

Thought the hard nose players thought no blood no foul, but then it’s “Actually no foul unless I missed the shot.”

Sofia wrote:

Harry Garris wrote:There is no way that skill development hasn’t improved in the last 50 years. Every field of work sees development and improvement over time, especially over the period of multiple decades.

I’ve learned from the old heads that everything has gone backwards in the past few decades.

At least they are musically correct

Oh for sure. I prefer the music I listened to in high school over the stuff of today as well

Problem with this argument is that the dribbling rules were already VERY loose by the year 2000, so your argument pinning the tighter game of the past on strict dribbling rules falls short by about 25 years. Similar problem with lots of other arguments for rule changes being everything--they might play a small role and together add up to a pretty sizeable change, but they don't come anywhere close to explaining or accounting for the major shifts in play style and strategy.

It's just better if you think of the game as constantly evolving, and watch lots of tape from the past and present if you want to see why and how. Players always figure out different advantages and push them as far as they can go, and the most effective or efficient ways to do things tend to change every 10-15 years or so. It's more a difference in kind than a difference in degree, but it also is obviously a faster and more skill-based game overall now.

Also when people say players now are 'more skilled' they don't mean that they have a larger quantity of overall skill. Like Bird and McHale were ridiculously skilled at what they needed to do to be good in their eras, and they honed and practiced those things to a crazy degree. But these days nearly every player has to be able to do most things on the court--pass, dribble/drive, shoot, defend on the perimeter and contest in the paint--and they have to do them quickly and within a pretty fast flow. Most players literally won't make rosters if they don't have that array of skills and can't apply them at NBA speed. That really wasn't the case in the 80s or 90s, offensive and defensive strategies didn't require every player to do that stuff.

Harry Garris wrote:There is no way that skill development hasn’t improved in the last 50 years. Every field of work sees development and improvement over time, especially over the period of multiple decades.

I don't believe that is true at all. I think more than the skill development being radically overhauled I think teams have realized what is required to play efficient basketball and have moved away from players and playstyles that are not efficient.

Players have also stopped focusing on those areas as well. Particularly the midrange and post. How many times have we seen guys 20-40 lbs heavier and 2-3 inches taller deathly afraid to take advantage of an obvious matchup in the post, many bigs today have very little or rudimentary post moves. That wouldn't have happened 20-30 years ago.

Of course, it was rare that any of the 4 or 5 could shoot from range either. Now you look at guys like Monroe and Okafor they can't find jobs. It's not because they are unskilled it's because their skills are not valued in todays game.

Allen Iverson’s crossover is taught in every decent high school clinic in the country.

People have been complaining about not calling traveling for like 40 years at this point. People complained about it with Jordan his whole career. Probably earlier than that with Earl Monroe or something can’t pretend to know about that.

So I just watched the actual video--kudos if this was a troll post cuz there's nothing here to support for what OP is claiming. McHale jokingly calls a double dribble on Ainge when they're goofing off, and Ainge protests and calls him crazy and then laughs off how McHale's trying to cheat.

You guys are so outrageously stupid with this argument. At any given point in time there were two at best three capable outside shooters on the court until the 2000s. At any given point in time there were two at best three capable dribblers and passers on the court until the 2000s. This is just a self evident fact pick literally any game from the 70s 80s or 90s.

Players are better shooters today and it’s not because of the rules unless you are comparing to the 70s when no 3 point shot existed.

Prince187 wrote:[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube]

Look at what was arguably considered a “double dribble” in the late 80s. The biggest stickler when it comes to carrying or traveling wouldn’t even notice that today. When you look at old videos of players dribbling the ball and it looks kind of sloppy and their hands are only moving up and down in a vertical fashion it’s not because they couldn’t master the complex science of dribbling a basketball. It’s because what we consider “handles” today were literally against the rules back then.

Even I had some amazing And1 handles back in middle school just from practicing a few hours a day. I’m pretty sure all those past players could have had them too. Whenever someone says previous generations players couldn’t hack it in todays league I think the opposite is way more likely. Today’s players would get eaten up back then, they wouldn’t be able to dribble the ball let alone get a good shot off

No disrespect. But how old are you?

I'm in my 40s and love game back then and now. Good players in all eras.

C'mon, guy!

Nah they are better as well

Stop living in the past the players are way more skilled and athletic and better today

Potential wrote:Stop living in the past the players are way more skilled and athletic and better today

Stop the cap

League MVP is built like a blob