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After seeing the Nuggets struggle, that back to back looking mighty hard, eh?

Kobe went to back to back to back finals and won back to back titles with a good roster, but certainly not an otherworldly roster.

First finals team...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Sasha
Vladimir
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. How the hell do you beat that Boston team with THAT? Kobe's second option averaged 14.7.

Second finals team that beat Magic...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Ariza
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

Third finals team that won back to back titles...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Artest
Fisher
Bynum

Those players averaged the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

People will talk advanced stats or percentages or whatever, but Kobe was beyond that. The man was a stone cold killer and did anything he could to win. A lot of what he did won't show up in any stat. He did a great job of breaking down defenses with his elite post play that collapsed the defense, but wouldn't necessarily lead to any stat we can zero in on. He swung the ball out of countless double teams and eventually it'd lead to good shots that would also tire the defense as they were scrambling. And Kobe was an elite defender when it mattered. If Kobe knew he had a chance to win a title, he locked in defensively in the playoffs.

And of course, I'm not even talking about anything he did with Shaq.

Kobe most underrated of all time.

You can thank KG's injury for that back to back.

No disrespect to Kobe but i think it is harder to go back to back in this era. There is a reason nobody has gone back to back since '18 Warriors because there is more parity today. There is more parity because 3 point variance is a bigger factor in winning and who can stay the healthiest will determine who wins and not necessarily who is the best.

He had a stacked team that no team could matchup with size wise. He lucked out with the Perkins injury in the '10 Finals. When he finally ran into a team that had size to matchup with his team's twin towers in the '11 Mavs he got swept out of the playoffs.

Those Lakers team strategy was Kobe shoots a bunch of bricks, but they have Gasol, Odom, Bynum to clean up his bricks with countless offensive rebounds. Eventually after shooting a bunch of bricks Kobe then gets hot and the Lakers win the game. Rinse and repeat from '08-'10.

Kobe's killer instinct was pretty much useless unless he had a dominate big in Shaq to cover up his bricks or a trio of all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom to clean up his bricks. I still remember Kobe shooting 8-24 in game 7 of the 2010 finals only to be bailed out by Gasol.

DoctorX wrote:He had a stacked team that no team could matchup with size wise. He lucked out with the Perkins injury in the '10 Finals. When he finally ran into a team that had size to matchup with his team's twin towers in the '11 Mavs he got swept out of the playoffs.

Those Lakers team strategy was Kobe shoots a bunch of bricks, but they have Gasol, Odom, Bynum to clean up his bricks with countless offensive rebounds. Eventually after shooting a bunch of bricks Kobe then gets hot and the Lakers win the game. Rinse and repeat from '08-'10.

Kobe's killer instinct was pretty much useless unless he had a dominate big in Shaq to cover up his bricks or a trio of all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom to clean up his bricks. I still remember Kobe shooting 8-24 in game 7 of the 2010 finals only to be bailed out by Gasol.

First line..."He had a stacked team."

Goodness gracious.

Whatever.

Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

As much as I liked Kobe, Gasol got robbed of the finals MVP in 2010

Effigy wrote:Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

I RESPECK him.

But obviously you know these are different circumstances lol.

Handlez wrote:

DoctorX wrote:He had a stacked team that no team could matchup with size wise. He lucked out with the Perkins injury in the '10 Finals. When he finally ran into a team that had size to matchup with his team's twin towers in the '11 Mavs he got swept out of the playoffs.

Those Lakers team strategy was Kobe shoots a bunch of bricks, but they have Gasol, Odom, Bynum to clean up his bricks with countless offensive rebounds. Eventually after shooting a bunch of bricks Kobe then gets hot and the Lakers win the game. Rinse and repeat from '08-'10.

Kobe's killer instinct was pretty much useless unless he had a dominate big in Shaq to cover up his bricks or a trio of all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom to clean up his bricks. I still remember Kobe shooting 8-24 in game 7 of the 2010 finals only to be bailed out by Gasol.

First line..."He had a stacked team."

Goodness gracious.

Whatever.

having 3 all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom in which 2 of them are 7ft while the other is a legit 6'10 is not stacked? On top of that the Lakers got Artest right at the end of his prime to help them win '10.

Back to backs have always been hard. Just ask the Spurs. That's why back to back championships are worth more than 2 championships years apart (all else being equal). Threepeats are even more valuable as it gets harder to keep up the focus and desire needed to be champions.

I think it’s obvious with the increased speed/pace, spacing and increasing injuries that todays game is much different so this doesn’t really speak to Kobe being so much greater although of course we acknowledge that he was a phenomenal player.

Handlez wrote:

Effigy wrote:Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

I RESPECK him.

But obviously you know these are different circumstances lol.

I really don't. How are they different? They both won back to back titles. And both only did it once their teams got stacked and struggled before. They're different because Kobe forced his way to the Lakers on draft night, and KD signed with the Warriors?

Effigy wrote:Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

Define Respeck? I assume it's not the same meaning as respect, because no Durant does not deserve respect for being up 3-1 on a championship level team then blowing it and then joining them.

Not to totally get off subject but this is why kobe should be rated higher on all time list than shaq. Shaq never wins a three peat w/o kobe. Shaq won 1 riding off coattails off wade. Kobe won back to back titles w/ a pedestrian roster w/o him. And then you can add in the much longer prime for good measure. Shaq only had a higher peak than kobe.

Dominator83 wrote:As much as I liked Kobe, Gasol got robbed of the finals MVP in 2010

Lakers lost game 5 by 6 points and it almost cost them the series.

Kobe had 38 on 61.4TS%.

Pau had 12 on 45TS%.

If Pau showed up on the road in that game, the series isn't in desperate peril.

Kobe's game 7 shooting destroyed his FG%, but he still had 10 critical points in the 4th to come back for an improbable win. He willed them and never gave up like Pau did on many occasions.

Pau was not mentally tough enough to lead a team, but Kobe mentored him into becoming a damn good second option. (Kobe won back to back with Pau averaging 18.6 both finals)

While I agree with the premise of the thread, this is premature until the Nuggets lose 2 more games. Very much a jynx thread here.

Effigy wrote:Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

Curry gets the RESPECK for that one considering Durant joined the team that was already winning championships

Triple M wrote:No disrespect to Kobe but i think it is harder to go back to back in this era. There is a reason nobody has gone back to back since '18 Warriors because there is more parity today. There is more parity because 3 point variance is a bigger factor in winning and who can stay the healthiest will determine who wins and not necessarily who is the best.

There's a validity in what you are saying, but I'm not convinced when someone like Duncan couldn't win back 2 back titles, I think he'd easily achieve that in today's NBA when you look at the teams that stopped him from repeating and compare them to the teams of today.

Chokic wrote:Not to totally get off subject but this is why kobe should be rated higher on all time list than shaq. Shaq never wins a three peat w/o kobe. Shaq won 1 riding off coattails off wade. Kobe won back to back titles w/ a pedestrian roster w/o him. And then you can add in the much longer prime for good measure. Shaq only had a higher peak than kobe.

IDK after Kobe and Shaq which is a fantastic 1-2 there wasn't a lot of good after that, in the Kobe-Pau roster they had Bynum and Odom who were pretty good, at least better than the 3rd or 4th option the 3 peat had. The first year of the 3peat had Glen Rice who was solid but the second and third one Derek Fisher was their 3rd best scorer at 11 ppg, Fisher returned during Kobe/Pau years but was like the 5th option. I'd say Kobe/Shaq > Kobe/Pau but Kobe/Pau Lakers depth > Kobe/Shaq Lakers depth, so call it a wash.

I swear Kobe is the luckiest superstar ever. Overrated when he was alive, even m9re overrated once he passed.

DoctorX wrote:

Handlez wrote:

DoctorX wrote:He had a stacked team that no team could matchup with size wise. He lucked out with the Perkins injury in the '10 Finals. When he finally ran into a team that had size to matchup with his team's twin towers in the '11 Mavs he got swept out of the playoffs.

Those Lakers team strategy was Kobe shoots a bunch of bricks, but they have Gasol, Odom, Bynum to clean up his bricks with countless offensive rebounds. Eventually after shooting a bunch of bricks Kobe then gets hot and the Lakers win the game. Rinse and repeat from '08-'10.

Kobe's killer instinct was pretty much useless unless he had a dominate big in Shaq to cover up his bricks or a trio of all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom to clean up his bricks. I still remember Kobe shooting 8-24 in game 7 of the 2010 finals only to be bailed out by Gasol.

First line..."He had a stacked team."

Goodness gracious.

Whatever.

having 3 all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom in which 2 of them are 7ft while the other is a legit 6'10 is not stacked? On top of that the Lakers got Artest right at the end of his prime to help them win '10.

Bynum 2008 playoffs...didn't play.

Bynum 2009 playoffs...6.3 and 3.7 in 17 minutes per game.

Bynum 2010 playoffs...8.6 and 6.9 in 24 minutes. (Was actually a big contributor)

He made one all-star team after the Lakers were finished.

Odom never made an all-star team.

Kobe had to regularly go through 50 win teams to win back to back. He wasn’t facing tomato cans like some other all time greats.