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I mean as in they are white unathletic and with a tendence to go chonky that does not allow one more cheeseburger in the backpack....
They still dominate.

They still dominate because they are GOD and if they had a regular nba player body type the would average 80 45 and 25?

oR they dominate because they had to develop such a level of skill to being able to compete with those bellys?


Fat boys fat boys wat yu gonna du wat yu gonna du when they cum for u.

Their body type is irrelevant. Neither of their game relies on any amount of athleticism (relative to NBA standards...because I know at least one of you will say something).

Their game is 90% IQ and skill.

They have plenty athleticism sans leaping ability

The man, the myth, the legend, Hellcrooner.

Leaping ability is the most overrated athletic trait in basketball, and core strength the most underrated.

These dudes get wherever they want without exerting a ton of effort or energy.

A fun fact about muscles is that they don't disappear just by being covered in a layer of fat.

Being built like a tank can have a good number of advantages in the NBA. Especially when you combine it with elite hand-eye coordination, balance, and deceleration.

Both guys are super strong. It's not like we're talking about rookie Dirk here.

Luka would be better if he got lighter. Whatever he lost in his bully ball game would be more than made up with quickness and superior defense.

Jokic is different. I don't think Jokic is particularly fat or out of shape. He just has a weird genetic body type with more subcutaneous fat than normal so he doesn't look that jacked. But he actually moves around the court very well and seems to have more endurance than most other big men.

firedavidkahn wrote:Their body type is irrelevant. Neither of their game relies on any amount of athleticism (relative to NBA standards...because I know at least one of you will say something).

Their game is 90% IQ and skill.

This isn’t true. Jokic and Luka both throw their weight around and hit defenders with some of the most force in the nba. Cade Cunningham. Paul George, derozan like to slow down in pnr and isolation and find spaces to shoot, Luka, Leonard, jokic, bron, Giannis, butler these guys just move you the hell out of their way. This is largely what you see with embiids harden, and numerous others from the field. Strength is totally athleticism and these guys use it very well.

Branduil wrote:A fun fact about muscles is that they don't disappear just by being covered in a layer of fat.

Being built like a tank can have a good number of advantages in the NBA. Especially when you combine it with elite hand-eye coordination, balance, and deceleration.

What good did that to Tractor Traylor , Oliver Miller or Stanley ROberts?

Not everyone needs to be shreaded to be a great athlete, go to the gym once and a while and you'll see guys who are strong as hell but you would call them fat if they had a hoodie on. They just have more concentration in their muscles, which is actually better for strength.

Pierce used to get the same hate, and I remember seeing stupid articles back in the day trying to show he was an elite athlete based on his start/stop time, change of direction, and all that jazz.

At the end of the day if you are in the NBA you are in the Top % of athletes in the world, working out with the best trainers in the world, and working out nearly every single day. These guys have amazing cardio, strength, and mobility. It's just a matter of what you want to work on, and what you want your body type to be. Remember when people were dogging KD to put on serious weight when he first came in because they wanted him to be a monster, and he said that weight would take away from his game because he wanted to be able to be fast on the perimeter? Luka and Jokic don't need to be fast on the perimeter

Also I know it's taboo to talk about here, but most of these dudes are on some serious gear, and their bodies are simply not real. Using them as metric for athletic ability or aethetics is just not real life

Don't fall victim to the White Boyz can't jump narratives either

How good would either of them be if they were 6’1”? Height > athleticism

Lockdown504090 wrote:

firedavidkahn wrote:Their body type is irrelevant. Neither of their game relies on any amount of athleticism (relative to NBA standards...because I know at least one of you will say something).

Their game is 90% IQ and skill.

This isn’t true. Jokic and Luka both throw their weight around and hit defenders with some of the most force in the nba. Cade Cunningham. Paul George, derozan like to slow down in pnr and isolation and find spaces to shoot, Luka, Leonard, jokic, bron, Giannis, butler these guys just move you the hell out of their way. This is largely what you see with embiids harden, and numerous others from the field. Strength is totally athleticism and these guys use it very well.

Yeah I don't know what that poster is talking about; their size is anything but irrelevant. Jokic's size is a massive advantage and he uses that advantage all the time. Luka throws his weight around beautifully and often subtly when he's in the lane and it's a significant component of his scoring ability.

relevant to the convo.
MArc Gasol.

He was a fat ass in H.s he was not going to be a pro with that shape.
But he had skill and worked a bit.
he came to the league still being something of a fatty but good enougth to be a starter.
the he actually lost that weight and became DPOY, Allstar etc.

Athletic body types are generally not that relevant, as long as your play style is not build around it.

Also it doesn't mean that there aren't muscles under the fat. Look at Shaq's physique compared to when he was with the Lakers dominating the league. Charles Barkley for most parts of his career. Fat Shawn Kemp was still an All Star in Cleveland and his whole game initially relied on athleticism. Zach Randolph to go with a more recent example.

Now would it help Jokic or Luka if they would be more athletic? In some situations yes, but I don't expect a big difference. First off, there isn't anything they can't do because of lack of athletic ability. Both can dunk, both can get by their defenders etc. So it would result in a few more highlight plays.

Maybe look at it like this. MJ was less athletic during his 2nd 3 peat, Kobe dunked a lot less when he hit his 30ies, both were still winning MVPs, they just adapted their playstyle to what works best.

NyKnicks1714 wrote:

Lockdown504090 wrote:

firedavidkahn wrote:Their body type is irrelevant. Neither of their game relies on any amount of athleticism (relative to NBA standards...because I know at least one of you will say something).

Their game is 90% IQ and skill.

This isn’t true. Jokic and Luka both throw their weight around and hit defenders with some of the most force in the nba. Cade Cunningham. Paul George, derozan like to slow down in pnr and isolation and find spaces to shoot, Luka, Leonard, jokic, bron, Giannis, butler these guys just move you the hell out of their way. This is largely what you see with embiids harden, and numerous others from the field. Strength is totally athleticism and these guys use it very well.

Yeah I don't know what that poster is talking about; their size is anything but irrelevant. Jokic's size is a massive advantage and he uses that advantage all the time. Luka throws his weight around beautifully and often subtly when he's in the lane and it's a significant component of his scoring ability.

IT's not an all or nothing proposition.

Jokic isn't good because he is big and Luka isn't good because he is big. Some players rely heavily on athleticism to dominate and if you took that away their game would fade heavily.

Jokic and Luka would both still dominate even if they lost weight because their game relies on their IQ and skill. Being big helps, absolutely but their games do not rely on it at all.

firedavidkahn wrote:

NyKnicks1714 wrote:

Lockdown504090 wrote:This isn’t true. Jokic and Luka both throw their weight around and hit defenders with some of the most force in the nba. Cade Cunningham. Paul George, derozan like to slow down in pnr and isolation and find spaces to shoot, Luka, Leonard, jokic, bron, Giannis, butler these guys just move you the hell out of their way. This is largely what you see with embiids harden, and numerous others from the field. Strength is totally athleticism and these guys use it very well.

Yeah I don't know what that poster is talking about; their size is anything but irrelevant. Jokic's size is a massive advantage and he uses that advantage all the time. Luka throws his weight around beautifully and often subtly when he's in the lane and it's a significant component of his scoring ability.

IT's not an all or nothing proposition.

Jokic isn't good because he is big and Luka isn't good because he is big. Some players rely heavily on athleticism to dominate and if you took that away their game would fade heavily.

Jokic and Luka would both still dominate even if they lost weight because their game relies on their IQ and skill. Being big helps, absolutely but their games do not rely on it at all.

"Ther games do not rely on it at all"? That's just not true. Their games partially rely on their size and it's so easy to see. Obviously their games don't rely entirely on their size if that's what you're saying, but then again no superstar has ever relied solely on their body or their athleticism.

Of course they would still be great players without it, just not nearly as great. Jokic wouldn't be anywhere near as dominant as he is in the paint. He wouldn't be able to consistently put up those monster games in the playoffs without his size. It's what makes it nearly impossible for him to have a bad game. It wouldn't hurt Luka on his stepbacks obviously but when he's in the paint he definitely uses his weight to gain separation from his defender.

Even if they lost weight they wouldnt be quicker. Maybe they coulf cut a second on fullcourt. Both of them are quick where it matters, and both would lose a lot more then they would gain by being skinnier. When luka pits that shoulder down and moves naz reid 1.5m and then have an open shot is what matters. I really dont know who celtics got that they can put on him. Horford but too slow. Tatum but they dont want him to get in foultrouble. There really isnt any other.

Its definitely despite.

I think Jokic has gotten in much better shape the past 2 years. Luka is not and it probably does hurt his cardio.

I think the Celtics are the team who are going to exploit him on defense consistently and lets see if it tires him out.

Jokic would absolutely still be 99.9% as dominant even if he lost 30 pounds.

His weight does not influence his ability to do trick shots consistently.
His weight does not influence his court vision.

Jokics body compliments his game but it isn't required for him to dominate. Jokic relies on skill.

It might impact his rebounding a tiny bit but overall he would still be every bit as dominant if he lost weight.