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The MJ cooked defense thread has slightly devolved into this. It's the off-season so I figured give it it's own thread.

Overall, who is the superior defender at their best? MJ or LeBron?

They played different positions so it's not going to be a 1:1 comparison. LeBron was literally defending PFs and centers during his Heat years.

Jordan received more award recognitions but LeBron was more versatile in defending positions 1-5. Pick your poison.

Lebron fell off hard defensively after 2013 overall (although 2016 was good)

Last 8 years or so he has given up on that end.

Its Lebron by a comfortable margin.

Lebron.
He's just a lot bigger and able to do more as a rim protector and help defender. Lebron was a much more disciplined defender as well.

MJ's a better pure point of attack guy with quicker feet and hands, but he also had a bit of lazy gambling in him. MJ liked to go for steals, and while he generated plenty of them, the trade off wasn't always positive because he left the defense in a bad position.

I think Lebron's point of attack defense got overrated after the series against the Bulls where he guarded D.Rose in spots. The rest of his defense though, is probably underrated by some fans. Prime Lebron covered so much ground and was so good at defensive rotations. Even as an old man conserving his effort, Lebron still impresses me sometimes with his ability to be proactive and rotate to the right spot (even if he's pretty bad at contesting shots or guarding the perimeter now).

They're both good defenders, but Lebron is bringing a larger overall impact on that end.

Lebron at his best was an okay defender.

MJ had a DPOY gifted to him.

Lebron had his DPOY robbed from him by a guy that didn’t even make All-NBA first team.

Lebron is the better defender and it’s not even close but most casuals will say MJ is better because he has 1 DPOY to Lebron’s 0 and cause the media told them MJ was a GOAT wing defender.

Depends where they're playing....

Is clearly lebron

DuallyNoted wrote:Lebron at his best was an okay defender.

Sure, just an okay defender.

cupcakesnake wrote:Lebron.
He's just a lot bigger and able to do more as a rim protector and help defender. Lebron was a much more disciplined defender as well.

MJ's a better pure point of attack guy with quicker feet and hands, but he also had a bit of lazy gambling in him. MJ liked to go for steals, and while he generated plenty of them, the trade off wasn't always positive because he left the defense in a bad position.

I think Lebron's point of attack defense got overrated after the series against the Bulls where he guarded D.Rose in spots. The rest of his defense though, is probably underrated by some fans. Prime Lebron covered so much ground and was so good at defensive rotations. Even as an old man conserving his effort, Lebron still impresses me sometimes with his ability to be proactive and rotate to the right spot (even if he's pretty bad at contesting shots or guarding the perimeter now).

They're both good defenders, but Lebron is bringing a larger overall impact on that end.

This is the only time disagree with your take. Jordan was all defensive 1st team 9x and recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks in 2 seasons. Lebron only had five 1st teams and one 2nd team. Jordan could not only school the best players of the opposing team, but score on them as well. I disagree with the "lazy" part of Jordan's defense; he was clearly the best defensive player even when he was playing against some of the best defensive players of his era (Hakeem, Mutombo, Shaq, Pippen, Payton, Rodman, etc.).

I can't say the same with Lebron; prime Lebron was a beast on defense, and he had a good 5 prime defensive years, but Jordan was dominant until he retired and went to the Wizards.

Kingdibs19 wrote:MJ had a DPOY gifted to him.

Lebron had his DPOY robbed from him by a guy that didn’t even make All-NBA first team.

Lebron is the better defender and it’s not even close but most casuals will say MJ is better because he has 1 DPOY to Lebron’s 0 and cause the media told them MJ was a GOAT wing defender.

It’s clearly Jordan and anyone who disagrees with me isn’t a serious NBA fan. I wear a suit and tie when I watch basketball and sit with proper posture at a long conference table.

Fantastik_Goat wrote:

Kingdibs19 wrote:MJ had a DPOY gifted to him.

Lebron had his DPOY robbed from him by a guy that didn’t even make All-NBA first team.

Lebron is the better defender and it’s not even close but most casuals will say MJ is better because he has 1 DPOY to Lebron’s 0 and cause the media told them MJ was a GOAT wing defender.

It’s clearly Jordan and anyone who disagrees with me isn’t a serious NBA fan. I wear a suit and tie when I watch basketball and sit with proper posture at a long conference table.

Oh yea? I rub my nipples while my wife feeds me boneless chicken wings with habernero sauce while I watch basketball, and I disagree with you.

Lo Wang wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:Lebron.
He's just a lot bigger and able to do more as a rim protector and help defender. Lebron was a much more disciplined defender as well.

MJ's a better pure point of attack guy with quicker feet and hands, but he also had a bit of lazy gambling in him. MJ liked to go for steals, and while he generated plenty of them, the trade off wasn't always positive because he left the defense in a bad position.

I think Lebron's point of attack defense got overrated after the series against the Bulls where he guarded D.Rose in spots. The rest of his defense though, is probably underrated by some fans. Prime Lebron covered so much ground and was so good at defensive rotations. Even as an old man conserving his effort, Lebron still impresses me sometimes with his ability to be proactive and rotate to the right spot (even if he's pretty bad at contesting shots or guarding the perimeter now).

They're both good defenders, but Lebron is bringing a larger overall impact on that end.

Jordan…recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks in 2 seasons.

.

Unfortunately these type of Jordan stats are no longer admissible in bball discussions. Those are the rules now.

Kingdibs19 wrote:MJ had a DPOY gifted to him.

Lebron had his DPOY robbed from him by a guy that didn’t even make All-NBA first team.

Lebron is the better defender and it’s not even close but most casuals will say MJ is better because he has 1 DPOY to Lebron’s 0 and cause the media told them MJ was a GOAT wing defender.

LeBron casual stans get more sad by the day....

dockingsched wrote:

Lo Wang wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:Lebron.
He's just a lot bigger and able to do more as a rim protector and help defender. Lebron was a much more disciplined defender as well.

MJ's a better pure point of attack guy with quicker feet and hands, but he also had a bit of lazy gambling in him. MJ liked to go for steals, and while he generated plenty of them, the trade off wasn't always positive because he left the defense in a bad position.

I think Lebron's point of attack defense got overrated after the series against the Bulls where he guarded D.Rose in spots. The rest of his defense though, is probably underrated by some fans. Prime Lebron covered so much ground and was so good at defensive rotations. Even as an old man conserving his effort, Lebron still impresses me sometimes with his ability to be proactive and rotate to the right spot (even if he's pretty bad at contesting shots or guarding the perimeter now).

They're both good defenders, but Lebron is bringing a larger overall impact on that end.

Jordan…recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks in 2 seasons.

.

Unfortunately these type of Jordan stats are no longer admissible in bball discussions. Those are the rules now.

Lets say we allow them. But then we have to us them with the other statement. That Jordan was CLEARLY the best defender over guys like Hakeem.

Block + Steal

87 Jordan 383 Hakeem 360
88 Jordan 390 Hakeem 376

Why don't I see a CLEAR lead here? I see a small one that's mostly due to Hakeem missing a few games.

Jordan is a better iso/on ball defender than Lebron but I’d say that has less value than what Lebron can provide (help defense and rim protection). I always thought of it this way: if Jordan is a 98/100 on defense and Lebron is a 96/100 I’d still take Lebron because I think his versatility is more valuable to a team overall. If two defenders are close I’d always take the one who can do more “big man” things.

Lebron was clearly superior than MJ as a defender. I don’t really think it’s up for debate.

Lebron was even better at guarding Uber quick guards.


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One Last Shot wrote:

DuallyNoted wrote:Lebron at his best was an okay defender.

Sure, just an okay defender.

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Jordan could not do 80% of what Lebron did in this clip, there is at least 5 blocks on Duncan and Splitter. However Lebron could do 100% of what Jordan could, locking up quick guards like Manu and Parker in the clip. Or not in the clip, MVP guards like D-Rose and Westbrook.

LeBron guarding 1-5 is such a meme, dudes been getting hidden on the easiest matchup for over 15 years now. Acting everyone didn’t watch him spend 90% of 2011 matched on Kidd and Stevenson