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The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 10:59 am
by Sweet Serenity
Hopped over to the Sixers Board & saw from 76ciology what I thought was the most accurate description of Embiid’s problem. Had to share it on the General Board.
76ciology wrote:In my view, Joel Embiid is a product of today's player development-focused environment. His transformation from a project to an MVP under Drew Hanlen's guidance is remarkable. However, to become a true winner, you need to play many real 5-on-5 cerebral games to experience various schemes. This is how Doncic developed into a savant at a young age. The same can be said for Giannis and Jokic, who play a lot of international games in the offseason. What does Embiid do? He plays 1-on-1 against small trainers, emulating moves from YouTube.
Zach LaVine is a prime example of this issue. He is a very talented player, but he didn't develop his basketball IQ. He knows different ways to get 50pts from various moves taught by Drew Hanlen but he doesn't know how to win.
With Embiid, he doesn't know how to pace himself. He always goes hard against weak teams and in early games. Embiid also knows how to operate when the scheme is vanilla. When the refs stop calling fouls, he still tries to foul bait in crunch time. You can say he should stop doing so, but what makes you think he knows how to be an elite scorer without foul baiting?
What if the main reason he's hard to defend is that defenders are trying not to foul him? This could explain why he gets most of his scoring early in the game.
Look at Jokic—he's okay with looking foolish in the regular season. He understands that you can have all the spotlight you want, but the real prize is in the playoffs, and that's what he's saving himself for. Jokic also has much more in-game experience, which is why he is often a step ahead of his opponents. He can punish the defense if they play physical, if the refs arent blowing their whistle, if the spacing is bad or if the defense is throwing multiple defenders. And you get all these conditions with these FIBA tournaments.
What's worse is that Embiid misses a lot of regular season games, further limiting his already very vanilla regular season on-court experience compared to other top players.
In that Drew Hanlen podcast with Joel Embiid, you can get a glimpse into his mindset. He focuses heavily on 1v1 play and the development of his game. He takes an entire year to see what needs changing, but this could be achieved way earlier if he’s playing in the pro league like Doncic as a teenager of he’s playing in international games every offseason like Jokic.
As a result, every year we face a problem that surprises us in the playoffs, which we then try to address in the offseason, like rebounding last year. These issues could have been identified much earlier if Embiid's game experience was like that of other professional athletes his age, with hundreds or even thousands more high-intensity games played.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 1:10 pm
by Lockdown504090
Still secondary to health. But very accurate. That’s why he has continued to improve as a player deep into his late 20s. You see this with many prospects who started playing later in life .
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 1:45 pm
by AI_Efficiency
Yea, was just going to add, for better or worse, he picked up basketball relatively late (age 15). So some of this makes sense in that context.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 1:58 pm
by SelfishPlayer
So what's Steve Nash, Karl Malone, and John Stockton's excuse?
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 2:01 pm
by CBS7
SelfishPlayer wrote:So what's Steve Nash, Karl Malone, and John Stockton's excuse?
These guys were all significantly more successful than Embiid thus far
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 3:58 pm
by Quattro
SelfishPlayer wrote:So what's Steve Nash, Karl Malone, and John Stockton's excuse?
Robert Horry and Michael Jordan
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:04 pm
by Woodsanity
Hakeem started around the same age but his bball iq was much higher than Embiid's.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:07 pm
by tsherkin
Woodsanity wrote:Hakeem started around the same age but his bball iq was much higher than Embiid's.
Some of what he had already been doing was transferrable, though. It's not like he hadn't been developing footwork, balance, coordination, anticipation, trajectory tracking, etc, etc.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:08 pm
by JustBuzzin
Ayo P these Embiid threads getting out of hand.
Can't wait for tomorrow's Embiid thread.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:23 pm
by Shaka_Zulu
JustBuzzin wrote:Ayo P these Embiid threads getting out of hand.
Can't wait for tomorrow's Embiid thread.
Why are you dismissing it?
This is probably the most nuanced and educational take on Embiid overlaying issues yet on GB (on an OP post atleast).
It's easy to say health issue or is a choker. But to break it down that well and explain some of factors that makes his game the way it is, is useful input to the discourse regarding him.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:29 pm
by GiannisAnte34
Woodsanity wrote:Hakeem started around the same age but his bball iq was much higher than Embiid's.
Hakeem also had an iron will, I think one of Embiid's biggest weaknesses is how easy it is to rattle him. Once he is looking to foul bait and doesn't get the whistle, he starts to pout
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:30 pm
by tsherkin
Shaka_Zulu wrote:JustBuzzin wrote:Ayo P these Embiid threads getting out of hand.
Can't wait for tomorrow's Embiid thread.
Why are you dismissing it?
This is probably the most nuanced and educational take on Embiid overlaying issues yet on GB (on an OP post atleast).
It's easy to say health issue or is a choker. But to break it down that well and explain some of factors that makes his game the way it is, is useful input to the discourse regarding him.
Is it useful? He's hardly the first person to start a little late and focus too much on iso stuff. He has broader issues which are more easily seen and which impact him far more than his emphasis on 1v1 play, even if that contributes.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:55 pm
by bledredwine
Embiid, Harden, and Chris Paul are all cut from the same mold.
All three are willing to game the system for buckets. While this can be a good sign of competitiveness, it fails in the playoffs when defense tightens up and you can't rely on the same tricks.
I mentioned for all three of these players that they would struggle well before the fact and all three have.
That all being said, Embiid is the only player of those three that I believe has what it takes to win as a first option.
Hell, Jaylen Brown just did it (Tatum? whoever). There's no reason he can't with the right support and if he stays healthy.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:56 pm
by tsherkin
bledredwine wrote:Embiid, Harden, and Chris Paul are all cut from the same mold.
All three are willing to game the system for buckets. While this can be a good sign of competitiveness, it fails in the playoffs when defense tightens up and you can't rely on the same tricks.
I mentioned for all three of these players that they would struggle well before the fact and all three have.
Chris Paul has only ever really struggled with health in the playoffs. Health and size, of course, since being 5'11 or whatever is its own form of ceiling despite his evident ability. I don't think his style of play has presented him any real sort of issue at all.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 4:58 pm
by Bobbymcgee
Embiid got his MVP and is about to get his gold medal. He has nothing left to prove.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 5:01 pm
by tsherkin
Bobbymcgee wrote:Embiid got his MVP and is about to get his gold medal. He has nothing left to prove.
Other than postseason success in the NBA, you mean?
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 5:10 pm
by nikster
Bobbymcgee wrote:Embiid got his MVP and is about to get his gold medal. He has nothing left to prove.
What does the gold matter unless he's playing like one of the best players on the team? That team is so stacked he got a DNP. You can swap Embiid with any real gm poster and they are still winning gold.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 5:23 pm
by famicommander
He's lazy, injury prone, and he can't control his emotions. Don't act like it's complicated. He's just a 300 pound manbaby.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 5:47 pm
by jbsays
I don't like his game, but I think it's injuries more than anything else. He probably would have made it out of the East atleast once if he was healthy. Of course you can question of his mindset and work ethic lead to injuries or not, but none of us will really know.
Re: The most accurate description as to why Embiid isn’t successful.
Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2024 5:53 pm
by Woodsanity
Bobbymcgee wrote:Embiid got his MVP and is about to get his gold medal. He has nothing left to prove.
Gold medal while getting DNP.
